Orcs are pure evil without Thrall

[Salandrin]

Everywhere they go, they only spread chaos and despair. This thread will be a unbiased insight on the Orcs and nothing else. For one, Thrall is the Orc's only salvation for decency. When Thrall is in charge, they are a mostly passive race hat do not cause despair unless the hour is dire. However when Thrall is not keeping a eye on them they degenerate into the insane savages they are originally: Grom drinking demon blood without word, Garrosh doing whatever heinous pleasure he desires, other orcs randomly destroying peaceful areas, etc. without Thrall, they are also not above acts such as rape, treachery, and torture and often don't justify their actions with anything other than a sick "For honor." All in all, without Thrall it's hard to view the orcs as anything other than savage beasts.

[McNeil]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike Thrall, I prefer being pure evil and slaughter everyone I can. I loved playing chaos Grom in WC3 for this reason, instead of running away or offering peace from Cenarius, just go get stronger and slaughter him instead.

The Hellscreams are the ones that keep me liking orcs

[Darsithis]

I have no idea where you're getting this idea.

The orcs were driven into bloodthirsty rages through the blood of Mannoroth. Once they lost the second war, they settled into a stupor and started withdrawing. The Orc race has always (at least before the Burning Legion), been an honorable race that prided themselves in their connections to the elements. They're shamans who pride themselves on upholding a warrior's honor.

That said, not every orc is a good guy (just as there are plenty of human outlaws), but I really don't believe they're anywhere close to what you're describing.

[Deleted]

I never understood the notion that savagery, murder, and destruction should be thought of as bad things. I'm a supporter of anything of that sort. By all means, call them savage beasts and killers; Just increases my affection for the orcs and my contempt for all you hippies.

Lil' pillaging, murder, and despair is good for ya'!

[topitopi]

Whenever someone says Orc "only spread destruction" before saying he/she will give an "unbiased" view of orcs...it's biased lol

[Frizzlewits]

victory or death

[beanman12345]

I have to disagree OP. No one who does an MC Hammer dance, that well, can be pure evil.

[Krolikn]

I never understood the notion that savagery, murder, and destruction should be thought of as bad things. I'm a supporter of anything of that sort. By all means, call them savage beasts and killers; Just increases my affection for the orcs and my contempt for all you hippies.

Lil' pillaging, murder, and despair is good for ya'!

Voice that opinion in real life. Don't be afraid, tell those hippies what you think!

[zephid]

I like pure evil, I like chaos and despair.

[Albert the fish]

Everywhere they go, they only spread chaos and despair. This thread will be a unbiased insight on the Orcs and nothing else.

really? let's see what's objective thought and subjective thought!

For one, Thrall is the Orc's only salvation for decency.

pure subjective analysis. we don't know what will or won't make the Orcish race decent, also what entails decency? the human model?

When Thrall is in charge, they are a mostly passive race hat do not cause despair unless the hour is dire.

this is actually somewhat objective, but certainly overdramatized for effect

However when Thrall is not keeping a eye on them they degenerate into the insane savages they are originally:

i think this is pretty clearly subjective and opinion, plus are you referring to the Orcs from Warcraft as "originally" or the Orcs that existed prior to that?

Grom drinking demon blood without word,

fair enough, however one man cannot damn an entire race. Tim McVeigh's actions does not mean that me, as a white man, am also off the deep end.

Garrosh doing whatever heinous pleasure he desires,

Garrosh doing evil actions is fairly objective, doing them because he takes pleasure is not at all. we don't know precisely why he does them, we can only read the allusions which actually point more to desperation than pleasure. at least for now.

other orcs randomly destroying peaceful areas, etc.

i have yet to see any single peaceful area in WoW. some areas are more peaceful than others, but nothing is peaceful. than again my interpretation of peaceful is pretty subjective, same as yours.

without Thrall, they are also not above acts such as rape, treachery, and torture and often don't justify their actions with anything other than a sick "For honor."

this isn't all that subjective as examples can pretty easily be drawn..well except rape. i don't recall rape ever happening in canon, remind me if it's happened. that said, it doesn't exactly separate them from any other race in WoW except maybe the Tauren and the Draenei, and even then the Grimtotem faction and the demonic Eredar share race with both of those and are certainly not above those things.

All in all, without Thrall it's hard to view the orcs as anything other than savage beasts.

still extremely subjective, both on that Thrall is required and that orcs are nothing but savage beasts counts.

all in all you say that you're unbias and factual, yet you post mostly subjective opinion and the objective facts you do post are highly flawed points of reasoning.

[FlacidGladiator]

Everywhere they go, they only spread chaos and despair. This thread will be a unbiased insight on the Orcs and nothing else. For one, Thrall is the Orc's only salvation for decency. When Thrall is in charge, they are a mostly passive race hat do not cause despair unless the hour is dire. However when Thrall is not keeping a eye on them they degenerate into the insane savages they are originally: Grom drinking demon blood without word, Garrosh doing whatever heinous pleasure he desires, other orcs randomly destroying peaceful areas, etc. without Thrall, they are also not above acts such as rape, treachery, and torture and often don't justify their actions with anything other than a sick "For honor." All in all, without Thrall it's hard to view the orcs as anything other than savage beasts.

You could hardly be more incorrect about the orc culture and society. This is an obvious troll thread, and not in the racial sense.

Given even that is is obviously meant to illicit passionate responses, youre about to get one thats completely dispassionate. Orcs of WOW are best analogized by comparing them to the Klingons of Star Trek. Originally the orcs where the Mag'har of Draenor and were a peaceful hunter/gatherer shamanistic society. Until the Argans, later known as the Draenei, washed up on their homeland. The mag'har foolishly took pity on them and gave aid and comfort to a people that bred like rats and spread across the mag'har homelands. Much akin to the plight of the Native Americans, the technologically superior argans forced the mag'har out of their ancestral lands, creating bitterness and anger among the natives. When the Burning Legion caught up to them, they found a race bitterly hateful of the draenei and eager to reclaim their homeland. Mannoroth gave them what they wanted, the means to drive them out but at a terrible cost. Shackled by being now blood bound to the Legion, they removed the invaders of their homeland, driving it unfortunately to seek a new land to not only start anew what they did in Draenor. And again, foolishly naive Night Elves helped them get established. Queue the Legion with its proxy army, Medevh opens a gate and they pour in. Thus the first war begins. Thrall and Hellscream eventually sever the ties with the Legion, but now unable to return home must carve out a place of their own on Azeroth. Mostly unpopulated, they choose Kalimdor. Second war comes and goes. The orcs try to go back to their old lifestyles but with constant pressure from the alliance's breeder species, the humans and draenei, want the land and resources for themselves, they have to keep a strong military stance and keep pressure up themselves to prevent the alliance from organizing too much for an invasion of Kalimdor. As evident with the invasion of the Barrens, the horde's fears were not unfounded. Garrosh as warchief was a mistake. Emotionally stunted, Garrosh Hellscream tries to live up to his father's legacy while not living in his shadow. He does this by grossly overcompensating with aggression to any perceived threat to the horde. His violent and aggressive nature is not curried by the other races of the horde nor even a majority of the orcs. He is however warchief, and good or bad, they are honor bound to obey him. In time, most orcs will turn on him at the end of MoP and Thrall will return as warchief. Garrosh is not indicative of the average orc's attitude. Go level an orc from level one and you'll see most of the starter quests are for proving your worth to the horde and defending the homeland from invaders. The only race that has quests that could be actually considered evil are the forsaken and even those can be counted on one hand. The orcs aren't savages, just dealt a raw hand by being too generous to the wrong people.

[Agoonga]

High Overlord Saurfang is not pure evil, he's pure badass.

[wushootaki]

This is one of the reasons why I dislike Thrall, I prefer being pure evil and slaughter everyone I can. I loved playing chaos Grom in WC3 for this reason, instead of running away or offering peace from Cenarius, just go get stronger and slaughter him instead.

The Hellscreams are the ones that keep me liking orcs

Grom and his orcs tried to reach out to Cenarius. At first, the night elves attacked them without warning. They had no idea the land was considered sacred, they just started getting slaughtered. When the orcs tried to talk to Cenarius, Cenarius refused to listen to them and said they were nothing more than monsters. It was at this point Grom decided to drink the blood...it was a last resort. He attempted to end it peacefully at first.

[Darsithis]

You could hardly be more incorrect about the orc culture and society. This is an obvious troll thread, and not in the racial sense.

Given even that is is obviously meant to illicit passionate responses, youre about to get one thats completely dispassionate. Orcs of WOW are best analogized by comparing them to the Klingons of Star Trek. Originally the orcs where the Mag'har of Draenor and were a peaceful hunter/gatherer shamanistic society. Until the Argans, later known as the Draenei, washed up on their homeland. The mag'har foolishly took pity on them and gave aid and comfort to a people that bred like rats and spread across the mag'har homelands. Much akin to the plight of the Native Americans, the technologically superior argans forced the mag'har out of their ancestral lands, creating bitterness and anger among the natives. When the Burning Legion caught up to them, they found a race bitterly hateful of the draenei and eager to reclaim their homeland. Mannoroth gave them what they wanted, the means to drive them out but at a terrible cost. Shackled by being now blood bound to the Legion, they removed the invaders of their homeland, driving it unfortunately to seek a new land to not only start anew what they did in Draenor. And again, foolishly naive Night Elves helped them get established. Queue the Legion with its proxy army, Medevh opens a gate and they pour in. Thus the first war begins. Thrall and Hellscream eventually sever the ties with the Legion, but now unable to return home must carve out a place of their own on Azeroth. Mostly unpopulated, they choose Kalimdor. Second war comes and goes. The orcs try to go back to their old lifestyles but with constant pressure from the alliance's breeder species, the humans and draenei, want the land and resources for themselves, they have to keep a strong military stance and keep pressure up themselves to prevent the alliance from organizing too much for an invasion of Kalimdor. As evident with the invasion of the Barrens, the horde's fears were not unfounded. Garrosh as warchief was a mistake. Emotionally stunted, Garrosh Hellscream tries to live up to his father's legacy while not living in his shadow. He does this by grossly overcompensating with aggression to any perceived threat to the horde. His violent and aggressive nature is not curried by the other races of the horde nor even a majority of the orcs. He is however warchief, and good or bad, they are honor bound to obey him. In time, most orcs will turn on him at the end of MoP and Thrall will return as warchief. Garrosh is not indicative of the average orc's attitude. Go level an orc from level one and you'll see most of the starter quests are for proving your worth to the horde and defending the homeland from invaders. The only race that has quests that could be actually considered evil are the forsaken and even those can be counted on one hand. The orcs aren't savages, just dealt a raw hand by being too generous to the wrong people.

EDIT: Though this post is definitely far from correct, lore-wise, it does bring up a valid point: the Orcs were a fairly peaceful and shamanistic race before the Burning Legion. They're not a bloodthirsty and brutal group that likes to pillage and rape everything in sight (outside of demon blood).

Grom and his orcs tried to reach out to Cenarius. At first, the night elves attacked them without warning. They had no idea the land was considered sacred, they just started getting slaughtered. When the orcs tried to talk to Cenarius, Cenarius refused to listen to them and said they were nothing more than monsters. It was at this point Grom decided to drink the blood...it was a last resort. He attempted to end it peacefully at first.

That doesn't make the race as a whole evil and hedonistic. No one said the Night Elves were perfect, either.

[Deleted]

2/10 Made me post.

Post constructively

[wushootaki]

You could hardly be more incorrect about the orc culture and society. This is an obvious troll thread, and not in the racial sense.

Given even that is is obviously meant to illicit passionate responses, youre about to get one thats completely dispassionate. Orcs of WOW are best analogized by comparing them to the Klingons of Star Trek. Originally the orcs where the Mag'har of Draenor and were a peaceful hunter/gatherer shamanistic society. Until the Argans, later known as the Draenei, washed up on their homeland. The mag'har foolishly took pity on them and gave aid and comfort to a people that bred like rats and spread across the mag'har homelands. Much akin to the plight of the Native Americans, the technologically superior argans forced the mag'har out of their ancestral lands, creating bitterness and anger among the natives. When the Burning Legion caught up to them, they found a race bitterly hateful of the draenei and eager to reclaim their homeland. Mannoroth gave them what they wanted, the means to drive them out but at a terrible cost. Shackled by being now blood bound to the Legion, they removed the invaders of their homeland, driving it unfortunately to seek a new land to not only start anew what they did in Draenor. And again, foolishly naive Night Elves helped them get established. Queue the Legion with its proxy army, Medevh opens a gate and they pour in. Thus the first war begins. Thrall and Hellscream eventually sever the ties with the Legion, but now unable to return home must carve out a place of their own on Azeroth. Mostly unpopulated, they choose Kalimdor. Second war comes and goes. The orcs try to go back to their old lifestyles but with constant pressure from the alliance's breeder species, the humans and draenei, want the land and resources for themselves, they have to keep a strong military stance and keep pressure up themselves to prevent the alliance from organizing too much for an invasion of Kalimdor. As evident with the invasion of the Barrens, the horde's fears were not unfounded. Garrosh as warchief was a mistake. Emotionally stunted, Garrosh Hellscream tries to live up to his father's legacy while not living in his shadow. He does this by grossly overcompensating with aggression to any perceived threat to the horde. His violent and aggressive nature is not curried by the other races of the horde nor even a majority of the orcs. He is however warchief, and good or bad, they are honor bound to obey him. In time, most orcs will turn on him at the end of MoP and Thrall will return as warchief. Garrosh is not indicative of the average orc's attitude. Go level an orc from level one and you'll see most of the starter quests are for proving your worth to the horde and defending the homeland from invaders. The only race that has quests that could be actually considered evil are the forsaken and even those can be counted on one hand. The orcs aren't savages, just dealt a raw hand by being too generous to the wrong people.

Everything in bold is wrong -- though you have a general idea of what happened, still wrong

First, Draenei and Orcs were not bitter towards each other in the beginning. In fact, they openly traded with each other and generally got along peacefully. It was just that the orcs had a savage darkness in them that was exploited.

Second, the night elves have NOTHING to do with the first war. Medivh isn't a night elf, and night elves only dealt with the War of the Ancients, and the Third War.

Third, the orcs didn't go to Kalimdor before the second war. And they don't choose to go to Kalimdor. Thrall breaks them out and is searching for a home, and is TOLD to go to Kalimdor to escape an forthcoming danger (scourge).

[Albert the fish]

You could hardly be more incorrect about the orc culture and society. This is an obvious troll thread, and not in the racial sense.

Given even that is is obviously meant to illicit passionate responses, youre about to get one thats completely dispassionate. Orcs of WOW are best analogized by comparing them to the Klingons of Star Trek. Originally the orcs where the Mag'har of Draenor and were a peaceful hunter/gatherer shamanistic society. Until the Argans, later known as the Draenei, washed up on their homeland. The mag'har foolishly took pity on them and gave aid and comfort to a people that bred like rats and spread across the mag'har homelands. Much akin to the plight of the Native Americans, the technologically superior argans forced the mag'har out of their ancestral lands, creating bitterness and anger among the natives. When the Burning Legion caught up to them, they found a race bitterly hateful of the draenei and eager to reclaim their homeland. Mannoroth gave them what they wanted, the means to drive them out but at a terrible cost. Shackled by being now blood bound to the Legion, they removed the invaders of their homeland, driving it unfortunately to seek a new land to not only start anew what they did in Draenor. And again, foolishly naive Night Elves helped them get established. Queue the Legion with its proxy army, Medevh opens a gate and they pour in. Thus the first war begins. Thrall and Hellscream eventually sever the ties with the Legion, but now unable to return home must carve out a place of their own on Azeroth. Mostly unpopulated, they choose Kalimdor. Second war comes and goes. The orcs try to go back to their old lifestyles but with constant pressure from the alliance's breeder species, the humans and draenei, want the land and resources for themselves, they have to keep a strong military stance and keep pressure up themselves to prevent the alliance from organizing too much for an invasion of Kalimdor. As evident with the invasion of the Barrens, the horde's fears were not unfounded. Garrosh as warchief was a mistake. Emotionally stunted, Garrosh Hellscream tries to live up to his father's legacy while not living in his shadow. He does this by grossly overcompensating with aggression to any perceived threat to the horde. His violent and aggressive nature is not curried by the other races of the horde nor even a majority of the orcs. He is however warchief, and good or bad, they are honor bound to obey him. In time, most orcs will turn on him at the end of MoP and Thrall will return as warchief. Garrosh is not indicative of the average orc's attitude. Go level an orc from level one and you'll see most of the starter quests are for proving your worth to the horde and defending the homeland from invaders. The only race that has quests that could be actually considered evil are the forsaken and even those can be counted on one hand. The orcs aren't savages, just dealt a raw hand by being too generous to the wrong people.

i think that's the most intelligent and concise description of the Orcs i've seen online. bravo.
well one exception. the Kalimdor bit and breaking of demonic ties didn't happen until after the second war.

[wushootaki]

That doesn't make the race as a whole evil and hedonistic. No one said the Night Elves were perfect, either.

I was using that to counter what the quoted post had said, about Grom not looking for peace and immediately turning to demon blood. He did look for peace at first.

And Night Elves are far from perfect. In fact, they are the reason the Burning Legion has interest in Azeroth at all, so really they F'd up probably the most out of any race. Far, far from perfect.

[Crableg]

I was going to type out a whole post about how wrong he is about the orcs, but then FlacidGladiator beat me to it, spot on there man.

OP, read up on your lore before you make posts like this.

[Darsithis]

Everything in bold is wrong -- though you have a general idea of what happened, still wrong

First, Draenei and Orcs were not bitter towards each other in the beginning. In fact, they openly traded with each other and generally got along peacefully. It was just that the orcs had a savage darkness in them that was exploited.

Second, the night elves have NOTHING to do with the first war. Medivh isn't a night elf, and night elves only dealt with the War of the Ancients, and the Third War.

Third, the orcs didn't go to Kalimdor before the second war. And they don't choose to go to Kalimdor. Thrall breaks them out and is searching for a home, and is TOLD to go to Kalimdor to escape an forthcoming danger (scourge).

Eh I just skipped over those parts. I was a little confused at first, but still, it's a far better description of the Orcs than the OP.