Is tipping 'required'? Am I in the wrong?

[Tonk]

I don't require a tip or a fee for crafting stuff with your materials.

I do however require a delivery tip or fee for you getting the resultant item

This made me think of Ryan Air...

I think my new policy for tradeskills we be Fee of 1 copper each. - Cheapest on the realm (I guess some people might do it for free)

Fee to trade me mats - 10g per item
Fee for me to trade the item 10g per item
Transaction charge 25g
Travelling fee 10g (20g if I have to go to the forge for eng/BS)

But don't forget at 1 copper each I'll cut gems / make enchants / craft items at extremely low prices.

[Deleted]

Actually the only reason you tip a waitress/waiter is to throw them a bone because they get screwed on pay. Real professionals don't get tips for their services; I don't get a $20 tip from my boss because I made the website run faster. As a crafter I never expect a tip unless I'm making some rare drop (e.g. raid crafting recipe). Otherwise, the person demanding the tip would have leveled their profession anyways so saying "I put time into it" is a moot point, since they didn't put time into it specifically for the person who is supposed to tip and the item would have been in their list by virtue of leveling the profession.

Secondly, a tip denotes optional and of varying amounts. Stating "mats + tip" means it's not a tip, it's a "service charge".

You are mixing up bonusses and pay.

IRL: When you work, you earn money for the time spend. (pay)
Wich is like (lets say) transmuting stuff into a red gem. (pay)

When you do a good job theres a chance u get a bonus (bonus)
When you get a transmute proc (2x) and trade it extra u could get an additional fee (bonus)

[Maggibesti]

So I made this thread in the official forums, and I want to see what you people at mmo-champ think about this:

Little backstory about me and tips: I usually tip people. If I had to calculate the percentage of the time that I tip, I'd usually say around 95% or so, with the other 5% being with guildies or random times when I don't tip. Mages, JCs, etc, I usually tip between 10-30 gold, sometimes going up to 100 or even 1k depending on how I'm feeling. However, if someone demands a tip, I will refuse to tip them.

Now on to my story: Earlier today, I was looking for a blacksmith to make a Mithril Coif for my Hunter alt. I had the mats and everything. After finding someone, I had him make the helm. He mentioned nothing beforehand about requiring any sort of payment. When he opened trade, I quickly hit my trade button without putting in a tip (I was annoyed at having to sit for 15mins to find ONE blacksmith and just wanted the damn helm).

Before I could cancel and enter a tip, he starts yelling several vulgar insults at me, about 'being a cheap prick', and various things. Because he demanded a tip (and was very rude at it), I refused to tip him. Because I refused to tip him, he closed trade and refused to give me the helm (which, remember, were made from MY mats). He keeps screaming vulgar insults, and eventually it gets into trade (most people agreed with me, the BS was an idiot). I reported him for taking the helm made from my mats (which I was told IS a bannable offense), and went about my business. I even tipped a mage with 22g twice within the next 5 minutes for 2 ports, and this dude was still raging. I end up buying more mats and having a guildy craft the helm. The guy who ripped me off ends up getting shredded by people in chat, for ripping me off and various other things.

Now the cost of the helm wasn't the problem; it was a total of 20 gold spent in total. What I was annoyed with is that this guy was just demanding a TIP and refused to give me my helm. Although the blacksmith was getting ripped apart in trade, it made me think; do you guys think that 'tips' are required for every sort of transaction (even for greens made with your own mats)? Was I the person in the wrong here?

Here is a TIP for you on how WoW works. When a stranger does something to you, he allways wants fee ALLWAYS. So expecting he doesn't want a fee is like expecting to not having to pay a taxi driver for the ride. You hit trade without even putting in the FEE its not a tip, you tip when you go out for a dinner, or a guild mate. This guy was a stranger so you give him a fee, usually what you think its worth, usually 20-50g for normal things. He got mad because you were being a cheap prick, thats no lie, you expected to get it for free. Note that it was your mats sure, but it was his blacksmithing, you need to take that into count. So if you expect to get things for free without tipping or paying fee, let a guildie or a friend do it. Don't expect a stranger from trade chat to craft/do something for you without paying fee, cause like I said, thats cheap. Especially when you mention you pay upto 1k "Tip" which the right word is "Fee" unless its a guildie/friend/REALLY kind person that is one in a million. SO if gold isn't a issue, do pay fee or don't expect him to give you the item. TBH, I don't think a GM will do anything, he crafted it for you and demanded a fee. You decided to not pay him a fee for the helm so YOU closed the deal and he keeps the rest. Its like you would go get your car fixed and than refuse to pay, you can't expect anyone to be able to do something for you. Unless they would refuse to let you have the car back even if you're paying. If that makes an similar example. SO ye, if you don't wanna pay people fees, please level the profession your self or make some friends.

[Deleted]

I dont bother asking for tips anymore, even when I did I used to say "your mats +fair tip if you feel like it"
if your main source of income is tips from random people you craft for then you need to go read the professions forums.

yes its nice to get a tip, its nice to give one. but if the crafter did not mention it then you dont need to tip (or pay the fee).

TLDR - Guy was a douche, Tip if you want to, dont feel pressured to though.

[Rownbear]

I think you both are in the wrong, you spent along time finding a BS, maybe it was a uncommon recipe he bought at AH, so he felt cheated not getting something for it. And you felt cheated because he didnt demand a fee. Still, not even giving people 5-10g for the time it takes them to make something for you is cheap.

I collect rare recipes and if people want them enchanted i can demand up to 200-300g because it took me a hell alot of time grinding reputation to exalted with factions no one else bothers with. but ofc I always announce prices in trade or whisper for the enchants, I usually get a "LOL piss off" for the prices and 3 hours later they say ok.

[Deleted]

I see this discussion derailling because of the "waiter tip" argument.

IRL: Waiters get paid, they make money without tip. So tip is bonus.
IN Game: Crafter does not get paid. They dont make money without tip. So tip is pay.

[kilj]

I agree tipping isn't required... but then again someone went out of the way in trade to come make something for you so I would of tipped... But then again I usually just have someone in the guild make it for me and can wait till they log on and tip them anyways

Btw you tip 1k.............. wish I could get a 1k tip lol

[lazza25784]

I don't see why I should take time out of my schedule questing/farming whatever to do something for nothing... Unless they are a guildie or friend. I go as far as advertising not that I do much these days "working for tips" generally if people don't want to tip then they don't reply.

[Jackleino]

Yeah, he can't demand a tip and was completely in the wrong there. I've had people before I didn't think would tip me, accept the trade, then open a new trade and tip me afterward. I've also had people not tip me at all so w/e.

I had a similar experience though with making truegold. Only instead of a tip, the dude told me to pay him 700g (AH price at the time) even though he had used my mats and there wasn't a proc. He took my truegold and got his ass reported in seconds. Next thing I knew, I had mail from a GM and I didn't see the dude again. Not sure if it was a temp ban, or a perma ban, but who knows. All I know is no one can demand a tip from you and anyone that does typically won't get business.

[Hoddie]

And this is why I rarely help people looking for crafts in trade. You make much more gold by selling on the AH, and those that craft the latest gear for a 10-100g tip are screwing themselves out of a fortune. There will always be some people who would rather do without than buy an item from the AH, but the vast majority of people will always pay the AH price if their attempts to find a crafter don't succeed.

[Deleted]

i actually tried to tip 3 mages in less then an hour for portals but when i put the tip in their trade windows, all three mages refused to take the tip, they said they didnt need it. I dont require a tip to make stuff with blacksmithing as well, however, 9 out of the 10 times, people will still give them.

[loki504]

OP i don't understand one thing.

why is the opinion of some random forum dudes so important(no offense to random forum dudes).
i have a feeling its just that you want some attention because you don't get much irl.

Stop provoking people with rude posts

[Slummish]

I had someone request a 350g tip for a gem cut the other day. I told him he could, "suck a big fat hairy one for calling it a tip." I would have gladly paid him that amount if he had said it's how much he charged or how much it would cost. Calling it a tip pissed me off.

[stomination]

And nothing is learned from this. Anyways ive learned to never craft anything for anyone. Gratz on getting the mats for the enchant but i rather sell my scroll then do enchants for a possible tip thats rather low.

[Adam Jensen]

if it is required, it is a fee, not a tip

[Grym]

I'd rather stare at a wall and dance than craft things for you if I am not getting paid, people don't usually craft things for free unless they are your friends. Or like me, I charge my friends.

[loki504]

Here is a TIP for you on how WoW works. When a stranger does something to you, he allways wants fee ALLWAYS. So expecting he doesn't want a fee is like expecting to not having to pay a taxi driver for the ride. You hit trade without even putting in the FEE its not a tip, you tip when you go out for a dinner, or a guild mate. This guy was a stranger so you give him a fee, usually what you think its worth, usually 20-50g for normal things. He got mad because you were being a cheap prick, thats no lie, you expected to get it for free. Note that it was your mats sure, but it was his blacksmithing, you need to take that into count. So if you expect to get things for free without tipping or paying fee, let a guildie or a friend do it. Don't expect a stranger from trade chat to craft/do something for you without paying fee, cause like I said, thats cheap. Especially when you mention you pay upto 1k "Tip" which the right word is "Fee" unless its a guildie/friend/REALLY kind person that is one in a million. SO if gold isn't a issue, do pay fee or don't expect him to give you the item. TBH, I don't think a GM will do anything, he crafted it for you and demanded a fee. You decided to not pay him a fee for the helm so YOU closed the deal and he keeps the rest. Its like you would go get your car fixed and than refuse to pay, you can't expect anyone to be able to do something for you. Unless they would refuse to let you have the car back even if you're paying. If that makes an similar example. SO ye, if you don't wanna pay people fees, please level the profession your self or make some friends.

and here is a tip for you. where not all greedy basterds.
if he didn't mention a fee/tip then you don't need to pay for it.

or is it normal that when you order a beer.(and the waitress doesn't say anyting about a tip) brings you the beer and demends a tip. and you don't feel the need to do it. is it normal she is calling you names? if so i don't know in what sick world/countery you live but its far far far away from where i live.

/edit. we all know a taxi cost money. and sometimes even agreeing on a certian price(doesn't matter how long the ride last)
but what happens when you walk up to a total stranger and ask him for direction. if it normal he charge you after he told you?

[Adam Jensen]

I'd rather stare at a wall and dance than craft things for you if I am not getting paid, people don't usually craft things for free unless they are your friends. Or like me, I charge my friends.

Then call it a fee.

[Grym]

I do, I tell them how much I am expecting to be paid before I do anything, just to avoid people like OP. I used to just let people tip whatever, after running into a few peope that doesn't tip, I always agreed on my fee before I do anything now.

[Rotted]

You were right in this situation

but over all, I think crafters need to start define themselves from a tip to a fee, to avoid this kind of thing

personally when ever I want something, I always state in trade how much ill 'tip' for the service, if they wisp me and ask for more they get ignored, if they say they'll do it free of charge, then I still try to trade them it anyways, atleast for 1 attempt