Do people really think warcraft is about good humans vs bad orcs?

[Cybran]

The first game which was planed as a Warhammer game was about Bad Orcs vs Good Humans. After the second game and books Blizzard started to bend the story in favor of more realistic conflict. The "Good" and "Bad" are just an illusion, the core of every war is interest and power.

That being said i am not a fan of the new Horde. Vol'jin behaves like a child, Garrosh is a idiot, Baine is a too pacifistic and Sylvanas is just psycho. I did the Silverpine quests 2 times already and i still don't get why she needs more Forsaken???? They are former humans, who cares if they all die out because they can't have babies the Horde should just populate Lorderon with Blood elfs, Trolls and Orcs instead.


The whole: "These people come to resettle... lets kill them and make them zombies so they can resettle" crap is just stupid

At this point i would prefer if the Trolls leave the Horde and join their Zandalari Brothers

[Nurvus]

Nagrand (and the rest of Outland) are also falling apart and any minute now will crumble into nothing.

To be honest I wish the Horde WERE more evil. When I started in 2004 I began as an Undead because I wanted to be the bad guys. Forsaken are still as close as you can get.

There are despicable humans/night elves, respectable forsaken/orcs... so just drop the nonsense.

I do think you should be able to be whatever you want in the game, an evil gnome or a good tauren.

[ambigiouslynamed]

Of course they count. They're part of the Horde, no? Sure, it's got its Garroshes and its Sylvanas... es... but it also has its Baines and Vol'jins.

Really, to write off the entire Horde as wholly evil is pretty dim. It's unquestionably the darker faction, but evil? No. Here's a little snippet from Blizzard to help educate on the matter:

"While both sides have done some pretty great and pretty terrible things in the stories past, there's a reason we don't make one the definitively evil or definitely good side (don't point to a few moments on a recent timeline to refute this point -- I'm talking big picture)."

You'd have a leg to stand on if you point solely at the Forsaken, but not when you muddy the water with inherently peaceful and anti-war races like the tauren.

you are ignoring the fact that tauren never DO anything good, theyre all just loyal soldiers of the horde. theyre grunts, the notion that tauren are good is completely unfound. the good tauren belong to the other factions like earthen ring and cenarion circle

[Airwaves]

I didn't even need to open this to know it was a Trassk made post. Srs you seem to have a problem with anyone who disagrees with YOUR concept of wow. Your post is just an alliance bashing post that is all.

This game started with Humans vs Orcs and still down to the core that is what it is and mists is pushing this story even more. 90% + people that play this game play it for fun and ignore the story. THEY are the posts you are reading.

[velde046]

Just see it as Humans vs Orcs. Playing humans mostly because the Horde are hideous, not because they are bad or anything.

[Guillotine811]

Warcraft is about good humans vs. bad orcs, WORLD OF Warcraft is further in the future after discovering that those bad orcs had their blood corrupted by the Burning Legion (or something like that).

[Vesker]

The thing that first attracted me to Warcraft was how the Orcs weren't evil like they were in most of the other fantasy things I'd been seeing at the time. It was new and interesting how the humans actually weren't all paragons of virtue and righteousness with dick-pistons like Garithos and Jaina's father considered prestigious and awesome within the Alliance.

The war between the Alliance and Horde these days is more about two factions being dicks to a precisely equal degree than one side being heroes and the other side being jerks.

[wushootaki]

Warcraft 1 & 2 are about Good humans vs. Bad Orcs

Warcraft 3 is about the redemption of one faction, the self-righteous downfall of another, and the discovery of a third. Then it turns into how these factions overcome differences to work together against a greater threat.

WoW is about being unable to break away from old hatred, as well as creating new ones. Anyone who played Vanilla should be able to note, that Alliance players are pitted against races found in the horde very early on. But what they may not realize is, the only group of npcs actually WITH the horde are the Forsaken in darkshore. Frostmane Trolls in Gnome/Dwarf area are not part of horde. Dragonmaw in Wetlands are not part of the horde. Meaning if you play dwarf/gnome in vanilla, the first time you meet the horde is in Arathi Highlands. For Humans it is even later, as the Blackrocks in Redridge are also not part of the playable horde, nor are any trolls in STV.

But as a Horde player in Vanilla WoW, Tauren are pitted against Ironforge Dwarves in Mulgore, while Trolls and Orcs are pitted against Alliance Soldiers in Durotar.

The key thing to note is --- Blackrock Orcs, STV trolls, Frostmane Trolls, and Dragonmaw in wetlands are all HOSTILE NPCS to both factions. The dwarves in Mulgore, and humans in durotar are FRIENDLY NPCS to the Alliance.

So in WoW, you could even go as far to say (with exception of forsaken), the alliance are the aggressors, going so far as to chase the Orcs to an entirely new continent just to keep fighting.

But overall, WoW was about how these two factions differently approach the growing threats of their world.

TBC was about the betrayal of one faction, to be redeemed by another.

WotLK was about working together to stop the threat of the Scourge, albeit different approaches which cause issues between the groups.

Cataclysm was about repercussions of Battle for Undercity, as well as the falling apart of the Theramore peace treaty (which was instigated by Twilights). Varian declared open War on the Horde in Battle for Undercity which had already made things tense, and with Thrall gone and the duping of the Twilight Hammer, Garrosh answered.

The Alliance is shown to LOSE MORE in Cataclysm because Horde is the superior faction in military might. They wiped the floor with the Alliance in Warcraft 1, and they continued to wipe the floor with the Alliance in Warcraft 2. The only reason they lose WC2 is because of internal disputes and betrayals, and that's where much of the interest in this faction is generated. Its conflicted, and morally grey, and has much more interesting stories then the alliance has ever had.

Its the same thing being shown in MoP. The Horde is once again shown to be overpowering the Alliance, but internal strife will cause it to fall apart and keep its power in check. That's why we get to fight Garrosh.

There is no good or evil anymore. Just people with different mind sets that act in different ways.

Alliance draws players who think in black and white. Horde draws players who understand shades of grey.

Thats the best way to sum it up.

[Deleted]

yes people think the humans are the good guys but if is that so why horde basics are strength and honor??yes they are big green and savage too
Why does horde merge forces with alliance and put asside there hates for a while when its needed against a gr8t evil??
horde are just the difence nothing more and maybe a litle more savage but i found an argumente in another picture like humans and hulk for example hulk is big is green is savage and very strong but he is good also and still humans hunt him right?? its kind the same in wow lol
i am dreaming with the day when allies and hordes will merge together in just one Raid to kill a badass boss ^^ ;D
it will be like this: wipewipewipewipewipe pvp inside raid horde wins lolol kiding and then we start raiding again and wipewipewipe finally we kill one bosse but there are 7 leaft and the sequence repets ^^ muhahahah it ill be a week in a raid

[Schaden]

Yes, people who don't pay attention think that this is a game of good humans vs. bad orcs. But honestly, a lot of that comes from the terrible things the Alliance have done either being extremely underplayed in game (such as the sacking of Camp Turajo) or being so far in the past that its disconnected to the present events. A disadvantage Horde has right now is that all their dirty laundry has been so recent, but they are far from the only ones who have done the worst damage.

[ambigiouslynamed]

Yes, people who don't pay attention think that this is a game of good humans vs. bad orcs. But honestly, a lot of that comes from the terrible things the Alliance have done either being extremely underplayed in game (such as the sacking of Camp Turajo) or being so far in the past that its disconnected to the present events. A disadvantage Horde has right now is that all their dirty laundry has been so recent, but they are far from the only ones who have done the worst damage.

camp taurajo was a military target, they were young WARRIORS and the camp was supplying a WAR. how is it wrong to attack that?

[Every Pwny]

Yes, people who don't pay attention think that this is a game of good humans vs. bad orcs. But honestly, a lot of that comes from the terrible things the Alliance have done either being extremely underplayed in game (such as the sacking of Camp Turajo)

Taurajo was a base where general Hawthorn got information of it being a military supply base for the guerrilla in the area. He also let the civilians flee, but he didn't know the only place for them to run was into Quilboar territory. When you play through as alliance you end up spending time arresting looters of Taurajo. It would seem you need to pay attention.

I also like this person description of the event:

And then I played the Alliance half.

Suddenly, the Horde were presented as the aggressors. And General Hawthorne, the guy I'd just murdered in cold blood, turned out to be a decent guy. He let the civilians of Taurajo go; he had no idea that the only place for them to flee was through hostile quillboar territory. The looters that I'd been so angry at weren't even part of the Alliance forces; they were military men who had defected and run off to go reap the spoils of war. Hawthorne hadn't ordered the looting; he was disgusted by it and actually has the player go apprehend the looters.

General Hawthorne wasn't bent on conquering the Barrens. He simply wanted to build a road through it so that the Alliance could get supplies up through Kalimdor and into Stonetalon Peak, where they were desperately needed. He knew that fighting was a natural consequence of war, but he wanted that fight to be as short and precise as possible, with minimal losses to either side. He wasn't cruel; he was one of the decent, honorable men of the Alliance.

http://wow.joystiq.com/2012/04/01/kn...nce-leveling/8

But I think that's also a problem, the alliance doesn't really get much of a meaningful story in Cataclysm so they don't do anything bad, they are just kind of are lawfully good 24/7. It's a bit boring.

[mvaliz]

There is no good or evil anymore. Just people with different mind sets that act in different ways.

"...there is only PAWAAAA!!!"

[Nervex]

i havent played wow for that much and my idea of the game is just to sides that fighting each other no bad and good.

[Darnassian]

There are despicable humans/night elves, respectable forsaken/orcs... so just drop the nonsense.

I do think you should be able to be whatever you want in the game, an evil gnome or a good tauren.

Yes there are, but when you look at the overall mindset of humans and night elves compared to the overall mindset of forsaken and orcs it's starkly contrasting. Humans and Night Elves in particular, want their borders respected and wish to be left alone. Orcs want to conquer and will kill, destroy, pillage and commit endless atrocities to get what they want. They treat their own non-orc horde races like second-class citizens, what makes you think conquered peoples would be given anything more than enslavement if they are even allowed to live? The bad Night Elves and humans end up being killed, the bad orcs are the bulk of the population. And as for the Forsaken, there's a reason those who dissented from Sylvanas seek refuge with the Argent Crusade.

[StationaryHawk]

Neither is "good" or "bad". Both have done some pretty rotten things. It just so happens that the orcs blindly followed their leaders and drank the blood of Mannoroth. The Horde, however, is typically viewed as the "bad" guys due to their brutal customs and the Forsaken's methods (which Garrosh disagrees with).

camp taurajo was a military target, they were young WARRIORS and the camp was supplying a WAR. how is it wrong to attack that?

It wasn't wrong to attack, but the Alliance murdered the civilians of Camp Taurajo as well, and then proceeded to loot them. I'm not saying the Horde has never done that (they have), but the Alliance have as well.

[iadamson]

I have no idea what its about.

I just kill people and get gear and cool mounts.

[Gheld]

I've been seeing a lot of posts lately from people and there opinions about the story structure in warcraft. Some see it from both sides, others take a more bias look at the story but still keep a broad mind despite it. And then there are others who are so held on there belief to certain concepts of the story they can't see it any other way.

The main theme I'm regarding are those that honestly believe warcraft's story is about white human knights battling evil malformed orcs to certain victory, because they feel like the holier then thou good guys. This is so much so that when blizzard directs the story that these humans lose to the orcs, and orcs even do heroic things, these same people are lost for words by this.

What I can't fathom is how can people be playing this game and not even regard the story in a wider sense of what it does. Warcraft manages to actully develop a story on two fronts, where both sides can be accused of doing noble acts of heroism, and others who act in malice to the other. Yet certain people can only see it, almost like from a lord of the rings perspective of good humans fighting evil orcs.

So many recent whining from alliance players, well perhaps justified in some points of the hordes story more focused in cata, seems to just go overboard for some players who think blizzard isn't doing enough to emphasize there belief in the alliance being seen as the goodie good guys, and I just find this baffling, since it suggests such people don't pay attention to the extensive lore.
Infact, I would say the mistake blizzard is doing is not emphasizing enough of the alliance commiting war crimes against the horde to balance the real issue of war. Perhaps this is set to change in pandaria, so far theres not been much to suggest otherwise.

The first two Warcraft games were specifically about evil demonic orcs coming and invading the humans' land and heroic humans fighting them off (or at least trying to fight them off). That's why. The original Alliance heroes were Khadgar, Alleria Windrunner, Anduin Lothar etc. The original Horde hero units are names like Cho'gall and Ner'zhul and Deathwing. You're essentially just stepping in at the middle of a plot development and acting like you've been there all along, otherwise you would be cognizant of this fact.

Up until Warcraft 3 the lore was simple, orcs bad, alliance good, defending homeland.

[Skelthos]

How can there be a "good" and "bad" side when those 2 concepts are purely perception? I am sure the Orcs firmly believe they are justified in their actions against the humans the same can be said for the humans. Kinda hard for it to be black and white when the only color is grey.

[Deleted]

Let's keep the philosophical 'BUT WHAT IS GOOD AND EVIL??'' to a minimum and agree on the facts that generally, the Horde are portrayed as more ruthless, savage, and violent and that the Alliance are generally shown to seek ''Justice!'' and ''The greater good!'' and at least try to maintain a level of civility and decorum.

You can bring up every cock-a-mimi example of an evil alliance quest, or a noble and righteous horde NPC, and that's all very well and good but you only have to look at the architecture and racial themes and leaders to see that Blizzard are clearly trying to create two very different, diametrically opposed themes for each faction.

I personally prefer Alliance because big orcs in loincloths and fur and everyone living in mud huts decorated by skulls and meat isn't really my thing. I don't resort to ''BUT DEY ARE DA GOOD GAIS!1''