[Megathread] Elder Scrolls Online

[Disciples]

Yay I'm a werewolf. Killed that troll, heard he was the toughest one, was super easy not sure why people were complaining. Thanks to the biter on here.

[Marthenil]

Yay I'm a werewolf. Killed that troll, heard he was the toughest one, was super easy not sure why people were complaining. Thanks to the biter on here.

Speaking of bites, anyone on the EU with an available vampire bite ? PM me for more info

[Deleted]

Subscriber numbers for WoW and other games dramatically disagree with you. You can find it dull and boring (as I do) which is totally, 100% cool, as it's all subjective, but to claim it to be some kind of broader truth is completely lacking in evidence.

Now now lets not get to carried away I'll put WoW as example as they are leading the subscribers count anyway. WoW wasn't always like this, early in the day, they did so much better at quests and exploration. And as we know jumping bandwagons is something really rare in an MMO, as not many play 2 MMOs at the same time, WoW just had it's luck with a great timing, being the only decent MMO in that time. Now the second thing is that WoW appeals to a less advanced computer systems, therefore more people can play it. Or are you gonna say Runescape is a better game than WoW? And lastly the third, I doubt WoW is leading in western subscribers numbers anymore, might have been years ago, but in 2014 I honestly doubt it. However bringing an argument that WoW got it's subscribers because of quest progression is largely false, or you can also go ask around how many play / played WoW because of it's quests, you are gonna get answer similar to 1 out of 10 at it's best.

Not necessarily true. These games feature horizontal progression with PvE gear, but that's not something that every PvPer wants. Rift, for example, was testing introducing horizontal progression in PvP, and was met with a very negative reaction from its playerbase. Some want horizontal progression, and some vertical progression. Both methods are totally cool.

You are partly correct, not everyone wants that, but wouldn't that be a minority, as WoW PvP was always bringing just disappointments due to its unbalanced system? MMOs like GW2 and ESO are getting recognition for it, and that is at being the best PvP MMOs. Now games like WoW can't really say that, as that is one of their weakest systems, and something that most people try to avoid at all cost. I mean come on, there was so many times I just wanted to break my keyboard, and I was pretty decent in PvP, It's just that blizzard never managed to fix it, no matter they're effort, which seemed weird anyway, nerf this nerf that, nothing PvP changing at all, just bringing more rage from that specific class. The last time I played Rift their PvP seemed even worse however. But I can give Blizzard still credit for doing the most they can with the way PvP is designed, it's far from the best, but they are doing whatever they can to make it decent.

Indeed. Or TSW, or possibly GW2. Heck, even WoW has been moving towards a more story-centric questing system in Cata/MoP, and appears to be going in the same direction with WoD.

Now I like that, but having been checking only WoW every so often, I can't say they are not doing anything much really. Their resources are not being spent in Questing and Exploration, but mostly endgame, leaving older content as dead as it could be.

Subjective. Some people dig fully voiced (and possibly animated) cutscenes, and some don't. Both have their advantages and disadvantages.

Might be subjective, but aren't ESO and SWTOR also getting recognition for that? I don't think many MMOs can brag with that, I fail to see where is the disadvantage in that?

I found the quest delivering in ESO to be pretty mediocre. I mean, it wasn't anywhere near as over the top and extravagant as SWTOR is, but at the same time I felt that many of the quests I did could have been done without any voicework etc. There were definitely some quests that I felt made great use of the voice actors, but it was spotty as hell. I disagree with it setting the bar "pretty damn high", but I do agree that it's nice to see more than just the "block of quest text....and go!" method of delivery. I think there's definitely room for some creativity or compromise between the existing systems.

Now I could say you're being subjective As the SWTOR goes their quest delivering was short and not really good voice acted, opposite to ESO. They did their best with what they had available, but making MMO featuring in the space is not really a good thing, and as far as the story goes, the only series that delivered with that was Mass effect. People liked questing in Skyrim, and in ESO most of them are saying it's even better designed and has even better story, having played both games I can agree with that. And I find it surprisingly well done making so much more interesting story, being set in a timeline that is far from being as interesting as dovakhiin, skyrim etc. However the only thing SWTOR did right was their quest progression design, but were mostly lacking in everything else.

[Lane]

Has anyone done the (DC) quest "Shornhelm Divided" ? I'm stuck. I'm supposed to rescue people from Fevered Mews, but there's one I can't get to, I assume behind a door to "Ruins" I can't open (the "E" is greyed out). There's a persuasion option to talk to the countess, but I never put a point into that and now I'm wondering if I'm barred from completing this quest until I do. I have no idea how to get to that last person. I can't find a back way into the "Ruins" either.

[Sharuko]

Has anyone done the (DC) quest "Shornhelm Divided" ? I'm stuck. I'm supposed to rescue people from Fevered Mews, but there's one I can't get to, I assume behind a door to "Ruins" I can't open (the "E" is greyed out). There's a persuasion option to talk to the countess, but I never put a point into that and now I'm wondering if I'm barred from completing this quest until I do. I have no idea how to get to that last person. I can't find a back way into the "Ruins" either.

If you are talking about the quest where you have to rescue 3 people in jail cells, all three are in the same dungeon/area. And you can just open up the cells. I am pretty sure you don't need a persuade skill for that quest.

[Edge-]

WoW wasn't always like this, early in the day, they did so much better at quests and exploration.

Quests, I fully disagree, exploring, sure. They've dramatically expanded quests in terms of delivery and content, blowing away classic WoW, which had what would be considered nowadays the most rudimentary form of questing.

Now the second thing is that WoW appeals to a less advanced computer systems, therefore more people can play it.

Indeed. Developers have the choice to allow their game to scale down insanely low to reach the biggest number of people, but not all of them do that.

And lastly the third, I doubt WoW is leading in western subscribers numbers anymore,

Oh? They had 4 million or so in the West as of the last earnings call, and there's no other MMO on the market in the West with even a million subscribers. If there was, the developers would be putting out weekly press releases reminding everyone of that fact.

However bringing an argument that WoW got it's subscribers because of quest progression is largely false, or you can also go ask around how many play / played WoW because of it's quests, you are gonna get answer similar to 1 out of 10 at it's best.

I never argued that. I simply said that WoW's modern questing system is generally viewed by developers/critics as the current hallmark for pacing and flow. Nothing more.

You are partly correct, not everyone wants that, but wouldn't that be a minority, as WoW PvP was always bringing just disappointments due to its unbalanced system? MMOs like GW2 and ESO are getting recognition for it, and that is at being the best PvP MMOs.

While GW2 doesn't have gear progression, they've had to add "progression" elements to PvP, because people expect to see some kind of progression and be rewarded. You're right that there's a crowd that doesn't want progression in PvP (I'm firmly in that group), but I'd wager they're the minority. It's a purely unscientific opinion though.

Now games like WoW can't really say that, as that is one of their weakest systems, and something that most people try to avoid at all cost.

This has more to do with PvP being a distant secondary system in WoW. WoW was primarily designed from its core to be a PvE game, so trying to have some semblence of balance in PvP, especially when you put balance under the microscope, is going to be insanely difficult. It's much easier in games like ESO or GW2 (as you mention), because they're designed from the ground up with PvP being part of the core game. So all design decisions are made with that in mind.

Now I like that, but having been checking only WoW every so often, I can't say they are not doing anything much really. Their resources are not being spent in Questing and Exploration, but mostly endgame, leaving older content as dead as it could be.

Indeed. WoW is still firmly in the camp of second generation theme park, especially one centered around raiding, small group based instanced content, and generally everything focused on max level activities.

Might be subjective, but aren't ESO and SWTOR also getting recognition for that? I don't think many MMOs can brag with that, I fail to see where is the disadvantage in that?

TSW as well got praise for that as well. Here's the thing though, voicework is a lot more expensive than writing out some quest text, and while it may be pretty cool, there's so far no direct correlation between having voiced quest delivery compared to text based quest delivery. I generally dig voiced quest delivery (favorite implementation is in DCUO, where hero's/villians call you to deliver quests to you, so you can continue playing the game while they talk or stop for a second and listen), but I'd be skeptical if the RoI on adding voiced quest deliver (especially with some high profile actors/actresses who are likely pretty expensive) is very good individually.

Now I could say you're being subjective

Indeed I was! Hence all the "I found/felt etc." : P

As the SWTOR goes their quest delivering was short and not really good voice acted, opposite to ESO.

Short? Some of those cutscenes last 3+ minutes >.>

As for the voicework, I found it to be pretty spotty so far. Some great voicework, some pretty bad. I can't comment on ESO, as I skipped through much of it, but it seemed to be similar in quality. Some quests had fantastic voicework done, and others were pretty average.

They did their best with what they had available, but making MMO featuring in the space is not really a good thing, and as far as the story goes, the only series that delivered with that was Mass effect.

Wait...why does a game being in space have anything to do with whether it's good or not? >.>

People liked questing in Skyrim, and in ESO most of them are saying it's even better designed and has even better story, having played both games I can agree with that. And I find it surprisingly well done making so much more interesting story, being set in a timeline that is far from being as interesting as dovakhiin, skyrim etc. However the only thing SWTOR did right was their quest progression design, but were mostly lacking in everything else.

Still have yet to play Skyrim, despite owning it for about a year now, one day I'll get around to it. I wasn't overly impressed with ESO's quest delivery, but hey, subjective opinions and all that, so we'll see how I feel about Skyrim.

Totally agree on the SWTOR bit. I think they focused too much on the whole story/questing thing and realized too late in the development cycle that they'd forgotten to fill out the rest of the game.

[RoninaThorstone]

Have people mathed out impenetrable vs reinforced for tanking gear yet? (pve wise)

[Lane]

If you are talking about the quest where you have to rescue 3 people in jail cells, all three are in the same dungeon/area. And you can just open up the cells. I am pretty sure you don't need a persuade skill for that quest.

Well, it's bugged then. There is no way for me to get to the third person who is underground. Relogging hasn't worked either.

[Sharuko]

Oh? They had 4 million or so in the West as of the last earnings call, and there's no other MMO on the market in the West with even a million subscribers. If there was, the developers would be putting out weekly press releases reminding everyone of that fact.

Although WoW has great numbers, I think it is closer to 3 million in the West now. 60% are Asia and 40% are Western. At WoW's peak it probably had 4.5 million in the West.

- - - Updated - - -

Well, it's bugged then. There is no way for me to get to the third person who is underground. Relogging hasn't worked either.

Are you referring to this quest?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b8qN2SUH2_E

[RoninaThorstone]

Oh lordy, World of warcraft subscription numbers discussions? What is this... The swtor subforum circa 2012?

[Sharuko]

Oh lordy, World of warcraft subscription numbers discussions? What is this... The swtor subforum circa 2012?

What? We have this discussion on MMO Champion WoW section every quarter.

[wombinator04]

Anyone else getting a lot never ending load screens now ever since today?

[RoninaThorstone]

Have people mathed out impenetrable vs reinforced for tanking gear yet? (pve wise)

But seriously, can NPCs crit? How much crit do they have? How much crit resist do you need at end game? Google doesn't seem to know.
I see that there is a hard cap of 50% damage reduction from armor and that base heavy gives about 30%.

[Greevir]

Loading screens are fine here. US server.

[Edge-]

Loading screens are fine here. US server.

Seems to be affecting only certain people rather than a regional problem.

[Disciples]

Although WoW has great numbers, I think it is closer to 3 million in the West now. 60% are Asia and 40% are Western. At WoW's peak it probably had 4.5 million in the West.

And I heard FFXIV has 1.8 million. So about half of what WoW has. Which isn't bad considering a toaster can play WoW. That's the problem with these new mmo's, they suck on low setting, lots don't have good computers.

[Lycanthat]

Have people mathed out impenetrable vs reinforced for tanking gear yet? (pve wise)

Well, there is a passive armor hard cap (I think it's 50%) but no such cap for Crit reduction, so you'd probably just stack reinforced until you see armor get overcharged, then stack impenetrable.

[Tierbook]

I still don't get why we can't have our own forum, what makes ESO less of an MMO than Final Fantasy 14, Guild Wars 2, Rift, SWToR or even Minecraft and LoL

[Deleted]

Quests, I fully disagree, exploring, sure. They've dramatically expanded quests in terms of delivery and content, blowing away classic WoW, which had what would be considered nowadays the most rudimentary form of questing.

I can't agree they've improved more than they've made it worse I mean the only content that is "alive" currently is Pandaria, when the new expansion launches, even Pandaria will die. Such design is just not good, Rift did a good thing with those adventures or whatever, and all the scaling, so you get to visit all the older content and do random quests, it's not much but it's a big improvement over what WoW has.

Oh? They had 4 million or so in the West as of the last earnings call, and there's no other MMO on the market in the West with even a million subscribers. If there was, the developers would be putting out weekly press releases reminding everyone of that fact.

Who actually believes them anymore anyway? In my opinion there might be 4mil, but over the course of the whole year, there is no way 4mil would be subscribed for the whole 12 months with nearly zero content added. And believe me even games like SWTOR, Rift and GW2 have way over 1mil people playing them. As a matter of fact I calculated when I was playing Rift, that queue for dungeons takes waaay faster than WoW and the amount of people running around doing quests was actually more too.

I never argued that. I simply said that WoW's modern questing system is generally viewed by developers/critics as the current hallmark for pacing and flow. Nothing more.

WoW never had, and never will have modern questing system, it's pretty much basic and it will stay this way, and is by no means viewed by anyone as anything breathtaking in the MMO market, it's decent at it's best.

While GW2 doesn't have gear progression, they've had to add "progression" elements to PvP, because people expect to see some kind of progression and be rewarded. You're right that there's a crowd that doesn't want progression in PvP (I'm firmly in that group), but I'd wager they're the minority. It's a purely unscientific opinion though.

There is always a PvP progression, all games do that sooner or later, problem is only when you make that progression to much OP based, here comes WoW, gear makes big difference, skills little.

This has more to do with PvP being a distant secondary system in WoW. WoW was primarily designed from its core to be a PvE game, so trying to have some semblence of balance in PvP, especially when you put balance under the microscope, is going to be insanely difficult. It's much easier in games like ESO or GW2 (as you mention), because they're designed from the ground up with PvP being part of the core game. So all design decisions are made with that in mind.

I disagree, PvP in WoW is just on the same par with PvE, the difference is only that they're failing at it. All the BGs, Arenas, world PvP realms, content specifically designed for PvP, hell even adding duels just proves my point. I can praise WoW for they're PvE design, its the best on MMO market, as far as the raids go of course, dungeons less so. But PvP is another story, and I think the problem is with design, you can never balance it. They were actually trying just as much as with the PvE, they just never delivered to the expectations.

Indeed. WoW is still firmly in the camp of second generation theme park, especially one centered around raiding, small group based instanced content, and generally everything focused on max level activities.

But for how long will that go on, people are getting hell bored out of it. They shouldn't use it as an excuse that they're primarily focused on Raiding, with all the money they got through the years. ESO is generally young MMO and is already surpassing WoW in every category except Raiding system, and we're yet to see what Craglorn will be. If I'd be Blizzard I'd be on high red alarm already, it's time they move their asses already and finally put out some quality product that is not based just on endgame

Short? Some of those cutscenes last 3+ minutes >.>

I meant the amount of time quests that take you to the max level. I haven't even played much ESO due to some internet problems, and later flue, but I'm sitting at 100+ hours, lvl 39, and I haven't even finished the fourth zone - Eastmarch on the Ebonheart Pact. Playing pretty much casually as far as the exploration and quests go, I'll be probably sitting at 500+ hours when I finish all the faction quests, thats damn alot. That is like a 4 months of casually playing, unless they nerf xp in every category. I can compare it only to WoW, which I remember getting the Loremaster achievement in like 20 days.

Wait...why does a game being in space have anything to do with whether it's good or not? >.>

Most people that play MMOs are more interested in medieval setup than space, advanced technologies xD Besides there isn't really any good space game except Mass Effect. (Or maybe that game set the voice acting, story and everything just to high )

Still have yet to play Skyrim, despite owning it for about a year now, one day I'll get around to it. I wasn't overly impressed with ESO's quest delivery, but hey, subjective opinions and all that, so we'll see how I feel about Skyrim.

Then I'm not sure you are gonna like it I found Skyrim questing experience to be pretty much boring, except for the Dark Brotherhood which always delivers. It's just that it really wasn't anything special.

Totally agree on the SWTOR bit. I think they focused too much on the whole story/questing thing and realized too late in the development cycle that they'd forgotten to fill out the rest of the game.

They've lost some players, but I think even they are improving the game now pretty much, it's far from being dead as some would say however.

[Sharuko]

And I heard FFXIV has 1.8 million. So about half of what WoW has. Which isn't bad considering a toaster can play WoW. That's the problem with these new mmo's, they suck on low setting, lots don't have good computers.

I think subscriptions wise FFXIV has like 500k-600k, which is still very good. They keep talking about registered users but those aren't active subscribers.

http://www.xivnation.com/news/ffxiv-...s-600000-mark/