What are we doing wrong on HM Spine?

[censoredss]

Sorry wouldn't let me post links.

---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 09:22 PM ----------

Does anyone see anything wrong with our heal numbers here? Healers are Censøred (holy priest), Lotalia (druid), and Deseis (disc) on Spirestone. Basically I am doing a renew/serenity/gheal blast on the debuffs, disc is dispelling, and resto druid is doing whatever resto druids do. I know this fight is a lot of mechanics, so it may be hard to tell, but does anyone see anything glaring here?

---------- Post added 2012-05-03 at 09:23 PM ----------

worldoflogs[dot]com/guilds/103123/

[zakaluka]

I am looking at tries 5 and 6 (your longest two). It's really hard to fully decipher a spine log because there are just a lot of things going on. So I'll just point out things that are most obvious to me; I'm sure I don't manage to find your most important issue simply because I'm not there watching. But here goes.

First, have your disc priest look at the rank 150-200 parses on Spine. Find a good example of a well executed kill. Not all logs are worth looking at, find one that meets the following criteria:
- 3 healers
- Fairly normal healcomp (by this I mean, don't pick one where the healers have insane extra manareturn - pass over anything with 2 rshamans and a spriest for instance)
- All 3 healers carry a reasonably even amount of total HPS.

Without meeting those criteria WoL parses won't teach you anything. Don't try to compare yourself to a hero healer, it's just not worth trying to emulate.

Anyway, your priest appears to be running a standard SoS spec. That's just plain no good on spine unless you really ARE stacking manatides. Which you aren't (you just have replen and 2 HoH, without VE). So he's firing Penance on CD and doing a lot of single target healing. This approach won't work. Look over the example WoL you've chosen, most disc priests behave in a pretty counterintuitive way on Spine to win. That is: enough atonement to fire wings A LOT (about 15% atonement) penance on any low-health target with plasma debuff (to apply grace which will buff subsequent atonements) and other than occasional PW:S to save lives, continuous PoH spam. Even overhealing, just to get DA stacked up. I know, I used to hate this idea - but it works.

It looks like your bear tank has Frenzied glyphed, and that you're popping Frenzied with DH and Tranq on each roll. And overheal on tranq/DH are both really low. You shouldn't need that much healing to roll. Now, stacking DH+Tranq it makes sense to glyph frenzied (because 15% healing bonus during two 120k spikes is.... huge) but you shouldn't be taking enough damage to need this. Your rolls are taking 20 seconds. Coordinate better, you can have your whole raid in and out in about 8 seconds. Then you can use fewer CDs on the roll: Barrier+holy DH is what I would do. Also starting the DH well before the roll is preferable if there are 3 or more debuffs out + the raid has a health deficit.

Now after doing this, you have a Tranquility or unglyphed Frenzied to use 10 seconds before each supernova with DG during 2nd supernova. I'm sure your bear tank is on bloods, right? Unglyphed frenzied never rage starves if you're tanking bloods. The stabilizing effect it has to be able to stagger your cooldowns is nuts. But save the disc priest's DH to play catchup on debuffs right before 5th up.

Summarizing my two biggest hits: your disc priest needs to be atonement given your raidcomp, and needs to change his behavior a bit. You need quicker rolls so that you can stabilize throughout the fight with CDs (rather than stacking them all up for the roll)

I'm sure someone else can find other things that they don't like, but here is my first reaction
Cheers.

[Deleted]

from my first kill pov , i found that the key for this fight is the Blood of Neltharion debuff (ofc - 10man pov).
Dispell dispell and dispell , get the Blood of Neltharion on ppl who take most of the dmg , or ppl with aggro problems - 1st on tanks , then on ppl who dps the bloods (we had 1 guy for this job dk or 1 ele shaman - (i'm not 100% sure)) , then on healers - in your case that should be resto druid cos the priests can fade to reset the aggro.
If u are lucky and u get 2 stacks of Blood of Neltharion on tanks then u can push hard for the kill :P.
For cd's u can use barrier on roll - then dh / tranq for each explosion , or if u have the problems on roll then u can use barrier + dh/traq , and go for 1 explosion without raid healing cd's.
Also , your disc priest should use more often his pws , especially on ppl with grip debuff . Also , he should use his shield on ppl with healing debuff before and during the rolls or explosions.

Last sugestion - get 1 resto shaman :P

[helloberry]

There are lots of factors to wipe on Spine. =/ It can be low Amalgamation damage leading to slow plate openings, slow grips, people AOEing the bloods when they shouldn't, slow rolls as have mentioned, tanks failing to kite/grab aggro etc etc. Unfortunately I'm not that good at reading those from logs so hopefully others will help you out.

BUT healers wise I have noticed some stuff on both the Priest. First of all, tell the Holy Priest to find Prayer of Mending and Prayer of Healing in his/her spell book and bind them good. I looked at the longer wipes and I see 0 of those cast. Holy Priest's Divine Hymn count is too low. It should be cast either on the roll, or if you use tranq, on the Amal explosion, never together. You should have a tank 4pc or pally's Divine Guardian for both of them, 1 tank+healer cd for each. Prayer of Mending should be used on CD and prayer of healing/lightwell on explosion 9 stack at the least.

As for the Disc priest, more PW:S and POM as well. I see the Disc is doing Dispels but he can do a lot better than that. Shields are what he's there for. Shield healers aggro'd with bloods, shield grips, DA/Shield rolls and explosions. Disc's DA and shield healing should be on top. I see his PW:S doing very little in the logs. Try to utilize the strengths as a Disc priest. Also low count on Barriers, use them more.

I haven't looked much but it looks like you have a bunch of people AOEing the bloods. Make sure you only assign 1 or 2 max to aoe bloods to avoid getting unwanted raid damage. Amalgamation damage seems low, and I see the bear tank doing most or 2nd most of the tendon damage (am I seeing things wrong?). Your Rogue is also using a subpar spec for this fight, Sub is the best suited for spine. Basically if you're executing things right and still wiping it's probably due to your DPS not pushing their buttons hard enough. Faster Amal means faster everything else and it'll make the kill a lot easier.

As I said there are a ton of stuff to wipe on Spine.. I didn't look into more details hopefully it helped.

[Deleted]

Use all cooldowns on rolls. You shouldn't get more than 3-4 blasts from the nuclear explosion anyway. Just shield the people with debuffs and spam lots of aoe healing doing explosions. Druid+Priest focus mainly on debuff healing and disc priest adds attonement heal till 3rd plate + shields and dispels. After 3rd plate disc swaps over to PoH spam, as the aoe starts to ramp up as the bloods die very frequently and do aoe dmg, there's no reason to poh spam before that as the dmg is easily covered by coh/wg outside of nukes and aoe of bloods after burn phases. Make sure you stand on a tank on the 3rd plate to avoid agro traps and use fade lots.

[censoredss]

Guys, thank you very much for all the info. Towards the end of the night we switched to just barrier on the rolls and DH or Tranq on amalg. We also worked on spending a lot less time in the roll like Zaka said. These helped a lot, but we still didn't get it. I will mention the spec change to our rogue like Hello said, and yes, that is our bear tank doing the most damage on the tendon, he runs a cat/bear hybrid spec so he does a lot of damage on every fight, but is never hard to heal. We also had our disc switch to gheal and shields at the end, but we ran out of time before we could really get any further. Oh well, maybe next week. Thanks for all the advice, I will bring it up to the guild and hopefully we can kill this SOB.

[elkewtf]

Anyway, your priest appears to be running a standard SoS spec. That's just plain no good on spine unless you really ARE stacking manatides. Which you aren't (you just have replen and 2 HoH, without VE). So he's firing Penance on CD and doing a lot of single target healing. This approach won't work. Look over the example WoL you've chosen, most disc priests behave in a pretty counterintuitive way on Spine to win. That is: enough atonement to fire wings A LOT (about 15% atonement) penance on any low-health target with plasma debuff (to apply grace which will buff subsequent atonements) and other than occasional PW:S to save lives, continuous PoH spam. Even overhealing, just to get DA stacked up. I know, I used to hate this idea - but it works.

You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear you say that. We run the same healing comp and have been really struggling once we get just past the second tendon. Last night our DK tank and the holy priest suggested that I tank SoS and that I bet the one (disc) to spam the healing debuff. He told me "If you want to be an AOE healer than you should be holy.", to which I replied that disc is a highly competitive aoe spec as well. People have such a huge misconception about that and it makes me pretty mad. One of my biggest heals on the fight is done through atonement. Anyway what I typically do is bubble those with the debuff, smite spam, keep PoM bouncing, and then PoH my little heart out. I use the shield on rolls.

I was pretty sure I was doing things correctly and this confirms that for me.

They suggested (which we tried) that I let the holy priest do all the aoe, and that I be the one to handle the debuff. I knew off the bat that it wasn't going to be sustainable and by the 2nd tendon I was hard OOM. I took SoS instead of atonement for it as well (I've gone back).

They were remarking that the debuff was being handled much better, but more than the spec I really think it was that we specifically assigned someone to handle the debuff rather than all the healers do it. I like the concentrated approach, but I don't think it should be ONLY one person.

[Deleted]

You have no idea how happy it makes me to hear you say that. We run the same healing comp and have been really struggling once we get just past the second tendon. Last night our DK tank and the holy priest suggested that I tank SoS and that I bet the one (disc) to spam the healing debuff. He told me "If you want to be an AOE healer than you should be holy.", to which I replied that disc is a highly competitive aoe spec as well. People have such a huge misconception about that and it makes me pretty mad. One of my biggest heals on the fight is done through atonement. Anyway what I typically do is bubble those with the debuff, smite spam, keep PoM bouncing, and then PoH my little heart out. I use the shield on rolls.

I was pretty sure I was doing things correctly and this confirms that for me.

They suggested (which we tried) that I let the holy priest do all the aoe, and that I be the one to handle the debuff. I knew off the bat that it wasn't going to be sustainable and by the 2nd tendon I was hard OOM. I took SoS instead of atonement for it as well (I've gone back).

They were remarking that the debuff was being handled much better, but more than the spec I really think it was that we specifically assigned someone to handle the debuff rather than all the healers do it. I like the concentrated approach, but I don't think it should be ONLY one person.

When I'm healing spine me(I'm a hpally) and a resto shaman is clearing debuffs the entire fight and both of us ends the fight at around 25-ish K hps so having one healer do that their self is just absurd. And we have a disc priest doing tank healing and attunement healing most of the fight.

But on that fight holy IS better at AoE healing and clearing debuffs because of all their healing is effective healing to remove the debuff while as disc your mastery will put out a shield. But overall over the fight I'd say the big thing about disc is PI and barrier because damage prevention during rolls and amalgation explosion.