Quebec vs Canada, a strange love

[Morogoth]

Hi Mmo Champion, this thread is a really tricky subject here in Canada

For the ones who don’t know. Quebec is a province in Canada and the majority speak French. Quebec and Ontario were the first provinces in the Dominion of Canada.

“The 1783 Treaty of Paris recognized American independence and ceded territories south of the Great Lakes to the United States.[43] New Brunswick was split from Nova Scotia as part of a reorganization of Loyalist settlements in the Maritimes. To accommodate English-speaking Loyalists in Quebec, the Constitutional Act of 1791 divided the province into French-speaking Lower Canada (later Quebec) and English-speaking Upper Canada (later Ontario), granting each its own elected legislative assembly.”

So basically, our constitution was written in French and English.

This said, in the 70’s, a sovereign movement was created in Quebec and the goal was to protect the French language in Canada and ultimately give Quebec a country. (7 millions French speaker vs 300 millions English speakers – including the united states). They created the law 101. It made French the official language of the state and of the courts in the province of Québec, as well as making it the normal and habitual language of the workplace, of instruction, of communications, of commerce and of business.

There was two referendums since the 80’s (about the sovereignty of Quebec). The first was in 1980 with René Lévesque and the second was with Jacques Parizeau in 1995. They both lost the referendum. Half of the Quebeckers are federalists and they like the coutry of Canada.

TLDR : Why this thread? Because I’m a federalist and I’m a right-winger. I’m tired to see all the disinformation about what’s happening here. I know Albertans hate us with a passion, but the only version they have is because of medias.

I’m almost bilingual. I like our big country. I feel so alone here while the big parties are talking about sovereignty. I’m a federalist and a right-winger. The Parti Québécois want to make another referendum (sigh). I will vote against.

What are your opinions about Quebec, I’m curious. I know the majority of Canadians think we are socialist losers, but it’s not true. We have good jobs and we pay taxes.

[Zandalarian Paladin]

Hi Mmo Champion, this thread is a really tricky subject here in Canada

For the ones who don’t know. Quebec is a province in Canada and the majority speak French. Quebec and Ontario were the first provinces in the Dominion of Canada.

“The 1783 Treaty of Paris recognized American independence and ceded territories south of the Great Lakes to the United States.[43] New Brunswick was split from Nova Scotia as part of a reorganization of Loyalist settlements in the Maritimes. To accommodate English-speaking Loyalists in Quebec, the Constitutional Act of 1791 divided the province into French-speaking Lower Canada (later Quebec) and English-speaking Upper Canada (later Ontario), granting each its own elected legislative assembly.”

So basically, our constitution was written in French and English.

This said, in the 70’s, a sovereign movement was created in Quebec and the goal was to protect the French language in Canada and ultimately give Quebec a country. (7 millions French speaker vs 300 millions English speakers – including the united states). They created the law 101. It made French the official language of the state and of the courts in the province of Québec, as well as making it the normal and habitual language of the workplace, of instruction, of communications, of commerce and of business.

There was two referendums since the 80’s (about the sovereignty of Quebec). The first was in 1980 with René Lévesque and the second was with Jacques Parizeau in 1995. They both lost the referendum. Half of the Quebeckers are federalists and they like the coutry of Canada.

TLDR : Why this thread? Because I’m a federalist and I’m a right-winger. I’m tired to see all the disinformation about what’s happening here. I know Albertans hate us with a passion, but the only version they have is because of medias.

I’m almost bilingual. I like our big country. I feel so alone here while the big parties are talking about sovereignty. I’m a federalist and a right-winger. The Parti Québécois want to make another referendum (sigh). I will vote against.

What are your opinions about Quebec, I’m curious. I know the majority of Canadians think we are socialist losers, but it’s not true. We have good jobs and we pay taxes.

First of all, you have to understand what other countries think is not necessarily right -- they hear rumors from everywhere in the world and then take what matters to them -- the worst. The only good thing people remember from Quebec usually, is the Poutine. And if they didn't like it, they'll bash it. The social stance in quebec is generaly more left-winged, it's true. Currently, after the university crysis which happened under the right-wing Liberal party (which used to be neutral), Quebec felt into a state of "emergency", where both sides (left and right-winged people) felt that the liberal party shouldn't lead the province anymore.

For now, a lot of people want to vote for the left-winged Parti Québecois, but not for the referendum. People want to see Jean Charest's party out of the parliament, and bring someone new. Between the C.A.Q. (Coalition Avenir Québec) being a completely new party without experience, the Parti Québecois who also did a lot of bad things when they had the lead and Québec Solidaire, who never went past the 5% places in the parliament, there isn't a lot of choice.

While the left-winged and the university/college students who felt blasphemed by the university cost going up will vote for the Parti Québecois in majority, the more conservative will vote for the Parti Libéral and the right-winged or unsure will vote for the CAQ. For now, the Parti Québecois is winning only because their leader, Pauline Marois, said she wouldn't touch the university cost during her term.

This doesn't mean that we're radicals, however. It simply mean the people are tired of being filled with lies. And no party will change this imo.

[Morogoth]

First of all, you have to understand what other countries think is not necessarily right -- they hear rumors from everywhere in the world and then take what matters to them -- the worst. The only good thing people remember from Quebec usually, is the Poutine. And if they didn't like it, they'll bash it. The social stance in quebec is generaly more left-winged, it's true. Currently, after the university crysis which happened under the right-wing Liberal party (which used to be neutral), Quebec felt into a state of "emergency", where both sides (left and right-winged people) felt that the liberal party shouldn't lead the province anymore.

For now, a lot of people want to vote for the left-winged Parti Québecois, but not for the referendum. People want to see Jean Charest's party out of the parliament, and bring someone new. Between the C.A.Q. (Coalition Avenir Québec) being a completely new party without experience, the Parti Québecois who also did a lot of bad things when they had the lead and Québec Solidaire, who never went past the 5% places in the parliament, there isn't a lot of choice.

While the left-winged and the university/college students who felt blasphemed by the university cost going up will vote for the Parti Québecois in majority, the more conservative will vote for the Parti Libéral and the right-winged or unsure will vote for the CAQ. For now, the Parti Québecois is winning only because their leader, Pauline Marois, said she wouldn't touch the university cost during her term.

This doesn't mean that we're radicals, however. It simply mean the people are tired of being filled with lies. And no party will change this imo.

Ok, but I don't want another referendum. There is enough hate for now. And a lot of disinformation.

We pay A LOT of taxes.

[Puck]

I think most Canadians assume people from Quebec don't want to be part of the country so it make them hostile towards the people from there.

[Morogoth]

I think most Canadians assume people from Quebec don't want to be part of the country so it make them hostile towards the people from there.

Exactly. But it's false. The referendum was defeated two times. At least... half of quebec are federalists. I feel so alone when the Partri Québécois want another referendum. I think I will move to New Brunswick if the PQ wins.

[yamilonewolf]

I admit I have alot of respect for people in Quebec, A lot more of them are ALOT closer to being bilingual than I will EVER be. Being from Ontario my self I know a little about whats going on, but the Majority of the Quebecios (sorry if wrong word) I meet are great people , heck even one of my raiders is from Quebec, on another more random note , if Quebec ceeded from Canada, Canada would go from the Second , to the fifth largest country in the world.

[BoysBoysBoys]

They seem to try so hard to be independent for the silliest of things. For example a brand of cigarettes called Canadian Classics is called Quebec Classics over there.

In addition, a lot of older French Canadians seem to have hard set values compared to others. That could just be my small community, in Ontario to note.

On the other hand I've also heard Quebec is an amazing place for clubbing and skiing/snowboarding in the winter, but that's not exactly political haha.

Overall I'm not prejudiced against Quebecers. And just to note, there's only one province in Canada that's officially bilingual isn't there? ❤

[MisterSheep]

I don't know much about politics, it actualy annoys me. But what annoys me the most is all those silly misinformed students that are bashing Jean Charest without even know both sides of the coin.

People only remember the worst, just as you said. So the liberals might be voted out, guess what? in a couple years people will flame the new partie, and liberals will come back to power.

People are never happy, I guess change can be a good thing if it can calm down all those college hippies. (I was in college two years ago, and GOSH was i annoyed by those pesky Charest-haters)

[Morogoth]

I admit I have alot of respect for people in Quebec, A lot more of them are ALOT closer to being bilingual than I will EVER be. Being from Ontario my self I know a little about whats going on, but the Majority of the Quebecios (sorry if wrong word) I meet are great people , heck even one of my raiders is from Quebec, on another more random note , if Quebec ceeded from Canada, Canada would go from the Second , to the fifth largest country in the world.

I have a lot of respect for the people in Ontario or BC or Nunavut too. I'm fucking tired of the sovereign movement here in quebec. After 200 years, we still speak french, (the new generation is almost bilingual). I'm fucking tired of the old politicians. I just want to be friendly with the rest of the country

---------- Post added 2012-08-23 at 03:19 AM ----------

I don't know much about politics, it actualy annoys me. But what annoys me the most is all those silly misinformed students that are bashing Jean Charest without even know both sides of the coin.

People only remember the worst, just as you said. So the liberals might be voted out, guess what? in a couple years people will flame the new partie, and liberals will come back to power.

People are never happy, I guess change can be a good thing if it can calm down all those college hippies. (I was in college two years ago, and GOSH was i annoyed by those pesky Charest-haters)

To be fair, the sudents were bashing PLQ because of the corruption. They should do the same thing for the PQ, but guess what: They are stupid punks

[DEATHETERNAL]

Whenever you have a country that is split up into a low number of subnational regions (states, provinces, commonwealths, or whatever it may be) that each retain a meaningful amount of power, everyone is going to hate on everyone else. Half the time it’s just people need someone else to hate on and the other half the time it's people in one place wanting to enforce their views of how a subnational region’s government should work on a different subnational region even though it doesn’t affect them as they are in their own subnational region. It’s been going on in Canada and America forever and I don’t think it's ever going to stop. Best to either get used to it or ignore it.

[La]

what about the negative things aside from the obvious? would they need to make a new government, new laws, new currency? what about people who live near ontario/quebec boarders, people who move across to work, and go to college? at some point, no province is happy with the government or, some things associated with it. the majority of the province is bilingual, and the rest of the country except what? NB? is not. is it a heritage thing that it matters so much?

i like to think in the future when the younger generations get into positions of power and such, that people will be more understanding. sometimes it feels like all of the old people and their old beliefs just make the world a shitty place in general.

[Morogoth]

what about the negative things aside from the obvious? would they need to make a new government, new laws, new currency? what about people who live near ontario/quebec boarders, people who move across to work, and go to college? at some point, no province is happy with the government or, some things associated with it. the majority of the province is bilingual, and the rest of the country except what? NB? is not. is it a heritage thing that it matters so much?

i like to think in the future when the younger generations get into positions of power and such, that people will be more understanding. sometimes it feels like all of the old people and their old beliefs just make the world a shitty place in general.

I want to believe this too.

The younger generation is proud to be bilingual.

---------- Post added 2012-08-23 at 03:26 AM ----------

Whenever you have a country that is split up into a low number of subnational regions (states, provinces, commonwealths, or whatever it may be) that each retain a meaningful amount of power, everyone is going to hate on everyone else. Half the time it’s just people need someone else to hate on and the other half the time it's people in one place wanting to enforce their views of how a subnational region’s government should work on a different subnational region even though it doesn’t affect them as they are in their own subnational region. It’s been going on in Canada and America forever and I don’t think it's ever going to stop. Best to either get used to it or ignore it.

True. I guess it's the same in USA with spanish speaking states

[MisterSheep]

To be fair, the sudents were bashing PLQ because of the corruption. They should do the same thing for the PQ, but guess what: They are stupid punks

What happens in a college in Quebec: You hate PLQ, you're welcome aboard, everyone loves you, it's like the ''tendency'' of the year right now. On the other side, you say you vote liberal, everyone rages at you, because you know, individual opinions are not accepted.

Yeahhh....

Sounds more like tyranny...

[Snakehead]

Don't really care about the politics of Canada but I've visited 2 Canadian cities Toronto and Montreal and IMO Montreal was wonderful. Toronto was very big and fairly impersonal except young street which is awesome. Montreal on the other hand might be my favorite city in north america it's so cultured and safe I'm not a big French fan and I'm sure they hate me being an American but the people of Montreal were very polite. I could go on but long story short I love that Montreal is unique and hope it always stays that way.

[Morogoth]

Don't really care about the politics of Canada but I've visited 2 Canadian cities Toronto and Montreal and IMO Montreal was wonderful. Toronto was very big and fairly impersonal except young street which is awesome. Montreal on the other hand might be my favorite city in north america it's so cultured and safe I'm not a big French fan and I'm sure they hate me being an American but the people of Montreal were very polite. I could go on but long story short I love that Montreal is unique and hope it always stays that way.

Montreal is a multicultural city. Probably the most liberal in North America.

By the way, we love americans here. Nothing to do with us speaking french. For the majority of us, we are proud to speak english when we can.

[Diraction]

I know Albertans hate us with a passion, but the only version they have is because of medias.

I’m almost bilingual. I like our big country. I feel so alone here while the big parties are talking about sovereignty. I’m a federalist and a right-winger. The Parti Québécois want to make another referendum (sigh). I will vote against.

What are your opinions about Quebec, I’m curious. I know the majority of Canadians think we are socialist losers, but it’s not true. We have good jobs and we pay taxes.

Albertans don't hate les Québécois anymore than les Québécois hate Albertans.

To the extent that Albertans think les Québécois are "socialist losers" it's got nothing to do with language - they think that about most of the other provinces too.

IMO, the separation of Québec would be bad for Canada and disastrous for Québec, economically speaking, but it's not going to happen. Les Québécois, like their fellow Canadians, are far too apathetic to do anything drastic. And any measure that would require les Québécois to give up their Canadian passports and Canadian currency qualifies as drastic. Not going to happen.

A certain amount of linguistic tension will continue in Canada for the foreseeable future, but that's a small price to pay to preserve a pretty stable and prosperous status quo. Canada has one of the strongest, least debt-ridden economies around right now out of all the Western countries and everyone in Canada knows that, both inside and outside Québec. Lots of European countries manage to get by with similar linguistic tensions.

Over the long term, I would expect those tensions to decline in Canada. In Québec, the gradual increase in the percentage of immigrants from non-English, non-French speaking countries (who oppose Québec separation by something like a 90 to 10 margin) will ensure that separation will never get a majority vote in a referendum. You can teach them to speak French (and you should), but you can't get them to vote to break up Canada. Sorry Jacques Parizeau, but that's the way it is.

In the rest of Canada, people have been able to see for 30 or 40 years now that the very highest levels of achievement in Canada require one to speak both English and French. By "achievement" I'm referring to things like becoming prime minister, or a supreme court judge, or some other high-level federal office like auditor-general. Even for private businesses, being bilingual is a considerable advantage when working for large, national corporations with operations in Québec, and everyone in Canada can see that. This perception has made bilingual education quite popular outside Québec. Resentment towards Québec in the rest of Canada is heavily driven by a concern about being disadvantaged if one can speak only English and the increased popularity of bilingual education will reduce that. This doesn't require everyone outside Québec to learn French, or anything close to that. It just requires a modest percentage of people, say 5 or 10% to be bilingual. Once you have that percentage, when someone in that province complains because he can speak only English and can't get a job that requires being bilingual, you can tell him his neighbor put in the work to learn French, so why shouldn't his neighbor get rewarded for that?

If all else fails, start setting up Tourtière shops across Canada. I'm still annoyed that I can't find any place here in California that makes them.

---------- Post added 2012-08-22 at 08:43 PM ----------

Montreal is a multicultural city. Probably the most liberal in North America.

By the way, we love americans here. Nothing to do with us speaking french. For the majority of us, we are proud to speak english when we can.

If anything, Americans will be more popular with Quebecers than English speaking Canadians from outside Quebec. Quebecers aren't going to be irritated at an American's inability to speak French.

[Skippy88]

As a Canadian Quebec leaving is Canada is bit like a kid threatening to run away. Of course you don't want them to run away but after so many years of them threatening to split from Canada it gets annoying and I'm at the point where I want to say "There's the door go nuts". They may succeed at it but I doubt it.

[Diraction]

Don't really care about the politics of Canada but I've visited 2 Canadian cities Toronto and Montreal and IMO Montreal was wonderful. Toronto was very big and fairly impersonal except young street which is awesome. Montreal on the other hand might be my favorite city in north america it's so cultured and safe I'm not a big French fan and I'm sure they hate me being an American but the people of Montreal were very polite. I could go on but long story short I love that Montreal is unique and hope it always stays that way.

Try visiting Québec City on your next trip up there. It's the most European looking city in North America - the architecture is gorgeous.

---------- Post added 2012-08-22 at 08:49 PM ----------

I don't know much about politics, it actualy annoys me. But what annoys me the most is all those silly misinformed students that are bashing Jean Charest without even know both sides of the coin.

I've heard Jean Charest speak English, by the way, and his English is absolutely flawless, as good as any native-English speaking Canadian. What I dislike are those whiners who complain that they can't get a job because they're not bilingual. Then when you ask them what's stopping them from learning the other language, they complain that they shouldn't have to. In other words, they want the reward without having to put in the work. If you want the perks of being bilingual, then stop complaining and learn the other language.

---------- Post added 2012-08-22 at 08:51 PM ----------

Don't really care about the politics of Canada but I've visited 2 Canadian cities Toronto and Montreal and IMO Montreal was wonderful. Toronto was very big and fairly impersonal except young street which is awesome. Montreal on the other hand might be my favorite city in north america it's so cultured and safe I'm not a big French fan and I'm sure they hate me being an American but the people of Montreal were very polite. I could go on but long story short I love that Montreal is unique and hope it always stays that way.

Those guys from Arcade Fire just love Montréal so it must have something going for it. I think it's just got a very vibrant cultural vibe that's different from what you can find in any other city in North America.

[Snakehead]

I've heard good thing about Quebec city but I was driving and didn't want to venture too far off my planned route. Plus your Rogers cell carrier shafts people on roaming charges so I couldnt use my phone gps either. I will check it out the next time I can afford a trip.

[Diraction]

Back when I lived in Canada we called Rogers Cable "Robbers Cable." I doubt their approach to business is any better now than it was then.