Alliance Theramore Scenario - Get your fist pumping pride here!

[Deleted]

What happened to camp taurajo was terrible, and yes those from theramore made the first move, and many tauren died. But I hold Varian accountable for that in pushing for this to happen.

Blizzard truly failed to establish Jaina's thoughts on the invasion of the barrens and if she did or didn't agree with it. I honestly can not accept Jaina would agree with Varian's choice to invade the barrens, after she herself helped Baine reclaim thunderbluff from the grimtotem, its such failed and inconsistent lore its shameful.

The attack on the Barrens by Theramore was to secure another supply route into Ashenvale and to draw the Horde's attention away from its rampage through Ashenvale.
Taurajo was a tragedy that did not go as the general planned, ending in the death of a few hundred at most, of which most were combatants as it was a hunter's camp.
Theramore is a very large city, with a population of 10000 according to the non canon rpg books. Except for the few survivors, that is 10000 dead soldiers and civilians. 10000 murdered men, women and children. 10000 humans, dwarves, gnomes, night elves, high elves and half elves.

[Deathgoose]

Maybe because Undercity is a major Horde city and Theramore is not a major Alliance city. It would be overkill for them to go that far because South Shore was destoryed.

From a questing stand point in the old world Alliance had better questing and more questing areas, in the bid to make things more equal the Alliance had to lose more ground than the Horde because they had more. It looks like the Horde is being favored but it is not. This is just my take from having leveled both Alliance and Horde characters in the old world 1-60 zones.

And Gilneas fell, because of the Forsaken. Home base Undercity.
And Andorhal fell, because of the Forsaken. Home base Undercity.

Seriously, Undercity is more of a of a threat to the Alliance in the EK than Theramore is to the Horde in Kalimdor.

[Falrinn]

Blizzard truly failed to establish Jaina's thoughts on the invasion of the barrens and if she did or didn't agree with it. I honestly can not accept Jaina would agree with Varian's choice to invade the barrens, after she herself helped Baine reclaim thunderbluff from the grimtotem, its such failed and inconsistent lore its shameful.

Yeah, I admit that did bother me too. All it would of taken is a couple lines of quest dialogue spoken by pretty much any Theramore general but we didn't even get that. Something like General Hawthorn saying something like "It's true Lady Proudmoore has done her best to keep us out of the war in the past, but with Garrosh in charge of the Horde that's a luxury neither she nor any of us can afford."

However I will make the argument that at least from Garrosh's perspective, Jaina's personal views or actions are completely irrelevant. Theramore is a major Alliance settlement within striking distance of the Horde's heartland, and for him that would be reason enough to attack. Even if Theramore never launched an offensive into the Southern Barrens, he would feel justified in launching the attack.

[Blayze]

Taurajo only went as poorly as it did because some of the civilians were either too brave, reckless, stubborn or stupid to run through the gap in the Alliance lines. They only have themselves to blame.

[Scummer]

I don't think Theramore is the "fist pumping" that Metzen mentioned.
I don't want to spoil it for myself yet, I trust everybody will make their own actual judgements when the event is properly out.

I can't believe people are whining over Theramore being destroyed. You should not care anymore. There is a story involved and it will have a result where the Alliance leadership and faction as a whole does something. It's not perfect considering all the shit we got in the Cata zones, but I'm hoping to just put that behind and look to what we're doing in MoP.

So far I'm not seeing a real sign of "fist pumping" worthy Alliance action, and I'm hoping to god that he did not imply the Org siege. If that were the case I'd just flat out reroll Horde.

Sadly from what everything this thread indicated Blizzard have ballsed it up big time again.

[Sandrox]

The reason people are whining is because the Alliance pretty much lose everything, and that is very uninteresting. If you play Horde, your enemy looks like a pathetically weak faction that doesnt fight back, and you have to wonder how they are even around or a threat if you steamroll them every time. If you play Alliance, your leadership barely even acknowledges that your being attacked by the Horde, and when you do fight back you lose anyway.

If Blizzard want this war to be interesting, there NEEDS to be some back and forth. It shows the war can go either way, both sides know that they could possibly lose. Right now its not even close to that. Im not saying it should be equal, that is boring. But both sides need to win battles, and both sides need to lose battles. Theramore was a perfect place for this, where it gets attacked by the Horde, but successfully defended by the Alliance. It achieves the same goal (spark the war... that is already going on? lolwut metzen?) and gives the Alliance a nice victory, and the Horde a much needed defeat to show they arent unstoppable. Instead, it gets leveled easily, and the Alliance go in later and do nothing like usual.

[Falrinn]

I don't think Theramore is the "fist pumping" that Metzen mentioned.
I don't want to spoil it for myself yet, I trust everybody will make their own actual judgements when the event is properly out.

I can't believe people are whining over Theramore being destroyed. You should not care anymore. There is a story involved and it will have a result where the Alliance leadership and faction as a whole does something. It's not perfect considering all the shit we got in the Cata zones, but I'm hoping to just put that behind and look to what we're doing in MoP.

So far I'm not seeing a real sign of "fist pumping" worthy Alliance action, and I'm hoping to god that he did not imply the Org siege. If that were the case I'd just flat out reroll Horde.

One thing a lot of players seem to forget is that the Siege of Orgrimmar is going to be in the last patch of MoP, not the first. We could have as many as 5 content patches (a little optimistic perhaps, but Blizzard is changing their patching structure for MoP) between the initial launch and the Siege of Orgrimmar. Every single one of these patches will deal with the Horde vs. Alliance conflict, more then enough time for the Alliance to rack up a victory or two.

As for the Siege itself, my main thought is that the Alliance needs to be gearing up for an all out offensive on Orgrimmar before the Horde uprising begins, or at least before the Alliance gains knowledge of it. The Horde uprising will simply cause the Alliance to modify their strategy and objectives in an attack that was going to happen regardless, they wouldn't be coming in to do the Horde a favor.

[Scummer]

The reason people are whining is because the Alliance pretty much lose everything, and that is very uninteresting.

That is a very small part of the reason. The major reason is how is the poor execution of it. Losing is fine aslong as there is a great story on the losing side while also having an experience in game where you feel like even though you are losing, you are reducing the damage done.

Theramore was Blizzard's first opportunity to correct the shoddy treatment our story has gotten and so far it appears to be half arsed for the Alliance. We are not sent at all to reduce the damage and find hope in a grim battle, but instead to merely pick up a handful of obliterated pieces and kill some stragglers.

---------- Post added 2012-05-18 at 10:49 PM ----------

One thing a lot of players seem to forget is that the Siege of Orgrimmar is going to be in the last patch of MoP, not the first. We could have as many as 5 content patches (a little optimistic perhaps, but Blizzard is changing their patching structure for MoP) between the initial launch and the Siege of Orgrimmar. Every single one of these patches will deal with the Horde vs. Alliance conflict, more then enough time for the Alliance to rack up a victory or two.

Indeed. My opinion though is that a decently sized event needs to happen for fist pumping to commence. Helping the Horde get rid of a dictator is not it though.
The patches in between I feel will be very interesting and crucial to how I see Blizzard overall approach to the Alliance/Horde treatment. So far we appear to begin badly and end in another Horde orientated story.

[Pud'n]

Hmmmm this Theramore scenario is shaping up to be .........not as good as expected........for both sides. I mean from a Horde player's perspective, one would expect something like the Horde surrounding Theramore, as Thereamore barricades it'self and waits for reinforcements from Stormwind and Darnassus.

I was expecting to see actual faction leaders instead of some nameless generals no one's ever seen before. I was expecting to see Baine leading the melee division from the front lines on the mainland. I was expecting to see Lor'themar lead the long ranged division of the Horde. I was expecting to see Sylvanas lead the Horde naval forces as they try to repel reinforcements from Stormwind, long enough for the main Horde forces to fell Thereamore. I was expecting to see Vol'jin lead an assasination/commando unit from within the city walls, as you and him assassinate any Alliance generals under Jaina's command. I was expecting to see Gallywix finally perfect and construct the Horde's superbomb - mid-invasion, just as Thereamore launches a staunch counter-attack against the Horde's main outlying base. I was excepting to see Garrosh lead the Horde's aerial division, as you and him try to survive Thereamore's airspace long for Gallywix to deploy the Horde's superbomb.

And this is from the perspective of a (mostly) Alliance player, so don't even get me started on my Alliance expectations....

Hopefully, this scenario becomes more epic than us just going around killing some random people, as Garrosh & Jaina stand on the sidelines doing nothing.

What happened to camp taurajo was terrible, and yes those from theramore made the first move, and many tauren died. But I hold Varian accountable for that in pushing for this to happen.

Blizzard truly failed to establish Jaina's thoughts on the invasion of the barrens and if she did or didn't agree with it. I honestly can not accept Jaina would agree with Varian's choice to invade the barrens, after she herself helped Baine reclaim thunderbluff from the grimtotem, its such failed and inconsistent lore its shameful.

/Nod

It's actual disappointing to see Jaina, the person who allowed her former enemies to kill her father and her kin for, the sake of her people's peace and sovereignty; acquiesce Thereamore's peace and stability so easily to Varian and his war.

I wounder how Blizzard will chalk this up in Tides of War.

[Venziir]

• Find Jaina - Find Jaina Proudmoore in the ruins of Theramore.
• Cleansing the Filth - Destroy any remaining horde in the ruins of Theramore. (optional) Lay to rest the remains of any fallen Theramore citizens.
• Destroy the Destroyer - Destroy the horde siege engine that yet remains in the ruins of Theramore.
• One Last Request - Retrieve the banner of Theramore from the horde shaman.

Come on Blizzard, really? I mean RREEAALLYY? We couldn't even get a heroic last stand scenario where we cover the civilian escapes? We have to roll up as glorified janitors to watch the Horde picking the bones clean?

RRRREEAAALLLYYYY?

Well we didn't get to save the Taurajo, now did we? :P

[Viconia]

God dammit, I don't want to take part in this event, let it be on Garrosh but I don't want to be there taking part in that.

Then don't, you freaking drama queen! It's that simple!

[Tyrathius]

It was inevitable from the moment Blizzard decided Theramore's destruction would be the MoP event. No matter how they try to spin it, there is no way to make the event compelling for the Alliance -Regardless of how noble a defense we put up, or how many grunts we kill, at the end of the day it's still a loss. The Horde destroys a major city and loses nothing of consequence.

The real question is why they decided to destroy Theramore to begin with. After the Hordefest that was Cata it was the Alliance playerbase Blizz needed to sate, to show that they really do write for both sides and want everyone to have a compelling story. Beginning the MoP plotline with an event that is a direct continuation of all the issues that plagued Cata's was not the way to go about doing that.

[Florena]

I'm reserving judgement until I see the finished scenario. Just seeing the objectives doesn't give us much to work with.

[Blayze]

The real question is why they decided to destroy Theramore to begin with.

I read a theory on why, ages ago. The theory stated that with Theramore gone and the Alliance presence in Dustwallow potentially gone completely, Alliance characters would *have* to go to Western Plaguelands and fail utterly in Andorhal if they wanted to do level-appropriate questing.

As for myself, I think Blizzard are building up towards wiping out the Night Elves, post-WoW, so that the Horde can then be poised to take what little remains of Kalimdor.

[mvaliz]

Am I the only one who actually cares more about what Chen Stormstout is bringing to us in the capital cities instead of this whole Theramore debacle Blizz forced upon us?

[Porimlys]

Oh look this garbage again.

Mod Note: Infracted.

[Ebildays]

And Gilneas fell, because of the Forsaken. Home base Undercity.
And Andorhal fell, because of the Forsaken. Home base Undercity.

Seriously, Undercity is more of a of a threat to the Alliance in the EK than Theramore is to the Horde in Kalimdor.

Yes but Gilneas was not part of the Alliance when it fell. If anything the Alliance should thank the Forsaken for pushing the people of Gilneas into their welcoming arms. And Andorhal fell because of the scourge and became a neutral territory that the Horde won.

But one thing I do agree on as a Forsaken warlock is that Undercity is more of an immediate threat to the Alliance in EK than Theramore was to the Horde. Given time Theramore would have become an immediate threat to the Horde because if the shipping of troops and provisions to the Alliance armies in Kalimdor. But you can not really compare Undercity to Theramore because Theramore is not a major Alliance city while Undercity is. And I don't think that the Undercity will fall that easy from outside forces with Silvermoon has a direct portal there and can funnel reinforcements to aide Undercity very fast.

[Trassk]

Well we didn't get to save the Taurajo, now did we? :P

thats actually a well put point. You alliance boys should think about that. We horde didn't get to save taurajo from being burned and the tauren being killed off, instead we came in at the 11th hour and a few survivors in the overgrowth.

[Deathgoose]

thats actually a well put point. You alliance boys should think about that. We horde didn't get to save taurajo from being burned and the tauren being killed off, instead we came in at the 11th hour and a few survivors in the overgrowth.

You are going to have a hard time going tit for tat based on the events from Cataclysm.

Horde lost Camp Taco. That's it. And it was more symbolic than anything, because they still have an actual camp with flightpoints and crap, like, 100 yards north of it.

And now how many things did the Alliance lose, either off screen, before we got there, or despite actually winning... nope, sorry, everyone's dead, oh well, might as well go home.

I'm not arguing against Theramore going boom. It's just another Alliance loss after a string of them. Happens so much, we have this little card with little punches on it, every 10 losses we get 1 for free.

What I, and several other people, are arguing about is the Alliance version of a major event is pretty damn lackluster and weak. Kill some looters? Blow up a siege engine that probably got stuck in the debris after it had already completed its objective? EXCITING!

Also, if you think about it, Alliance had to have a reason to be in Southern Barrens with quests. After all, we lost the entirety of Azshara (which was changed from a 50-60 zone to a very low level zone. Hell, it gets terra-formed into the fucking horde symbol! ) and Hillsbrad in which to quest. Horde didn't even lose the ability to quest in Southern Barrens, they just suffered their single loss of Cataclysm there.

[Bullettime]

It was inevitable from the moment Blizzard decided Theramore's destruction would be the MoP event. No matter how they try to spin it, there is no way to make the event compelling for the Alliance -Regardless of how noble a defense we put up, or how many grunts we kill, at the end of the day it's still a loss. The Horde destroys a major city and loses nothing of consequence.

The real question is why they decided to destroy Theramore to begin with. After the Hordefest that was Cata it was the Alliance playerbase Blizz needed to sate, to show that they really do write for both sides and want everyone to have a compelling story. Beginning the MoP plotline with an event that is a direct continuation of all the issues that plagued Cata's was not the way to go about doing that.

I see Theramore as the beginning of the end for Garrosh and starting his story arch to corruption.

Garrosh orders Theramore attacked. Theramore is destroyed but his troops still suffer many casualties and are not able to secure the city. Jaina, the main target, escapes. This now sets up the picture that Garrosh is not as unstoppable and dominant as he appeared to be during the Alliance vs Horde conflict during Cataclysm in which the Horde was an unstoppable juggernaut. It's a victory for the Horde, but it's a relatively hollow one. It's enough to give doubt.

Now fastforward to Mists. I could easily see the Alliance battering the Horde and achieving one or two major victories on the mainland of Pandaria. This would be enough to set Garrosh off the deep end as for him and his Orcs, it's "victory or death." One, much less two, decisive losses could easily be the catalyst for Garrosh needing to be put down by him using desperate and extreme measures to turn the tide of war.

And all it took was that single shred of doubt that could come with the Horde being repelled from Theramore before securing it.