Sun Tzu's teachings and Guild Wars 2.

[leires]

I am reading The Art of War and can't wait to try out a great many if not most of his ideas in the WvWvW as the leader of a squadron. According to Sun Tzu besieging a city is the wrong thing to due because it drains your resources. He claims the best victory that one can obtain is winning without shedding blood. So I was wondering if anyone had some cool ideas on how to take a point without fighting? (other than no defenders of course)

[Larynx]

Ask nicely.

[Glytch]

without shedding blood.

choke them?

tho i guess the whole diversion thing so you can cap waht you really want would work

[Deleted]

I think his tactics usually revolved around tricking the enemy into a position they can't win from so they surrender. Since this is a game and death is a mere inconvenience, I don't think you make a situation where the enemy won't fight. Best you can probably do is trick them into charging out of the fort to where you look weak and sneak in.

[Squirrelbanes]

I think his tactics usually revolved around tricking the enemy into a position they can't win from so they surrender. Since this is a game and death is a mere inconvenience, I don't think you make a situation where the enemy won't fight. Best you can probably do is trick them into charging out of the fort to where you look weak and sneak in.

That's it yh.
Always fight from a position of strength, and basically force them to surrender through negotiation or some trickery without fighting.
Somehow I can't see this approach workign in WvWvW xD

[Larynx]

That's it yh.
Always fight from a position of strength, and basically force them to surrender through negotiation or some trickery without fighting.
Somehow I can't see this approach workign in WvWvW xD

Just get a good concave and only engage with a high ground position.

Wait... This isn't Starcraft...

I'm sure the same general logic applies regardless!

[Loaf Lord]

Use a blunt weapon like the clerics of old.

[Glytch]

Use a blunt weapon like the clerics of old.

wait, do bruises count as shed blood?

[Cuchulainn]

Without shedding blood?
Kill them with kindness.

[Bluedragonwolf]

Sadly, in game where death means very little (I'm immortal!!!); a number of his teachings become meaningless. However, some of his tactics may be viable. Use of small squads to lure out larger parties to an ambush; Luring groups into a position where they can be fired upon from a high ground position; finding and attempting backdoor entrances into keeps; using a distraction party on a front gate while using trebuchets and catapults to knock down a rear wall... all may be viable.

[Loaf Lord]

wait, do bruises count as shed blood?

nope, blood must exit the body. Clerics that went into battle back in the old days circumvented this by using maces to bludgeon their foes.

[semantic]

Sadly, in game where death means very little (I'm immortal!!!); ...

We'll see what the tactical value of waypoints is once tight battles start to stretch over multiple days. Once forcing an enemy to regroup at a waypoint becomes a critical success (because the overall battle is so closely contested), all of the stuff like "don't commit to battle until you have the upper hand" becomes important, regardless of the fact that nobody actually dies.

[Merendel]

We'll see what the tactical value of waypoints is once tight battles start to stretch over multiple days. Once forcing an enemy to regroup at a waypoint becomes a critical success (because the overall battle is so closely contested), all of the stuff like "don't commit to battle until you have the upper hand" becomes important, regardless of the fact that nobody actually dies.

I'm not sure how much value those waypoints will be long term. Waypoints shutdown when they are contested disallowing their use. It would be relitivly simpile to send small squads to each fortress on the map that could be upgraded with a waypoint to make it contested. Yes those squads would have little chance of takeing the objective and would likely get rolled if a large defensive force came through but it would force defenders to travle from their home waypoint on foot instead of porting to a relitivly nearby keep and join the defence from there.

They seem more valuable for a team on offense giving them a forward staging point for reinforcements to arrive from.

[Squirrelbanes]

They seem more valuable for a team on offense giving them a forward staging point for reinforcements to arrive from.

Which is why they'll be vital for defense xD
What we;re going to see is a delightfully chaotic supply line battle. I hope lol.

[Deleted]

Without shedding blood?
Kill them with kindness.

Oh, I can picture it now.

Forget carpet bombing. We need fluffy kitten bombing.



Finally a use for the charr.

[Squirrelbanes]

Lol! Sheer brilliance xD

[terrahero]

I am reading The Art of War and can't wait to try out a great many if not most of his ideas in the WvWvW as the leader of a squadron. According to Sun Tzu besieging a city is the wrong thing to due because it drains your resources. He claims the best victory that one can obtain is winning without shedding blood. So I was wondering if anyone had some cool ideas on how to take a point without fighting? (other than no defenders of course)

Sun Tzu's teachings are not entirely upto modern standard anymore. I'd recommend you read On War, written by Carl von Clauzewitz aswell.

The Art of War does not really stand up to the way we fight "war" in a videogame. For example, one of his sayings is to defend where the enemy cannot attack. So, we all have to camp in our spawnkeep? Ofcourse not, because the object of WvWvW is entirely different then it is, or was, in a real war thousands of years ago.
Another things, feed off your enemy. Stealing his supply is worth 20 of your own, but i dont even think we can do that in GW2.

And ofcourse the ultimate victory, as described by Sun Tzu. Supreme excellence is not winning every war, but winning every war without fighting. Maneuvering your enemy into a position he cannot fight from and force him to surrender. But, why would a player surrender? Aww, 5copper repairbill if he dies? Fuck that! Leeeeeroooooooy!

So its nice to read those two. But keep in mind that warfare in a videogame will have some fundamental differences. And you are better off simply applying common sense and cunning. Especially against Zergs, the more people clump together the dumber we seem to act. Easy to outsmart many, with a few.

[Deleted]

Supreme excellence is not winning every war, but winning every war without fighting. Maneuvering your enemy into a position he cannot fight from and force him to surrender. But, why would a player surrender? Aww, 5copper repairbill if he dies? Fuck that! Leeeeeroooooooy!

While I agree with what you're saying, there are other downsides to death than just repairs. One of the most discouraging factors to death, particularly in W^3, would be time. Sucks to kamikaze, kill no one at all, and have to run for 4-5 minutes just to get back to the action - better to fall back, regroup, and assault again in a minute.

[Squirrelbanes]

I'd also just like to add:

Play the Total War series if you don't already

[jtgizmo]

I am reading The Art of War and can't wait to try out a great many if not most of his ideas in the WvWvW as the leader of a squadron. According to Sun Tzu besieging a city is the wrong thing to due because it drains your resources. He claims the best victory that one can obtain is winning without shedding blood. So I was wondering if anyone had some cool ideas on how to take a point without fighting? (other than no defenders of course)

If there is a greater need/benefit from leaving the current objective. So you need to offer them something that is worth/need leaving for.