We design the game! Part 4: The Setting

[Digglett]

Now about details in particular. No matter what you might want to think, this already IS a high-level fanservice material. I don't really want to offend anybody (well, maybe a little), but most of the people supporting the idea seem to watch too much school romance/harem shows or think that dating sims are real games, and look up to their favorite titles as models. I'm sorry to shatter your illusions, but this is fiction of a very poor level in terms of wrighting and character design. The "discussion" revolves mostly around the topics of should the characters have skin-tight plugsuits and should lesbians look tomboyish. You can't possibly get any legit game based on the "space lesbian school" concepts. It's pure fanservice in it's core.

Best story/characters I've seen in a game were from a dating sim, an eroge no less, good to know you know little to nothing about the genre.

Such thing shouldn't have been brough up in the video games forum in the first place.

Really? Why not? Because you seem to be closed minded and don't like it? It's not the 1950's anymore, this is a topic that is in the media and isn't one that should be shunned, get over it.

[Skelington]

This wasn't though out at all. The person who suggested it just typed three words. He didn't offer any background story or the actual game setting at all.

Ideas have been forming a few times before and since it was included in the poll. What's your point?

Other people in this thread seemed to just jump on the "LOL! So random! xD" train. And they're spouting words like "cliche", "deconstruction" and whatnot. Making a game "not like the others" doesn't make it good, in majority of the cases its on the contrary actually. Just throwing in unpopular and/or bizarre concepts makes it next to impossible to harmonically merge them together, rather than having a stitched-together monstrosity.

Following the exact same concept as every other game doesn't make those games good either. Sorry that not everyone thinks like you, but quite a few things in here have been valid. There is none of that "so randum" shit around.

Now about details in particular. No matter what you might want to think, this already IS a high-level fanservice material. I don't really want to offend anybody (well, maybe a little), but most of the people supporting the idea seem to watch too much school romance/harem shows or think that dating sims are real games, and look up to their favorite titles as models. I'm sorry to shatter your illusions, but this is fiction of a very poor level in terms of wrighting and character design. The "discussion" revolves mostly around the topics of should the characters have skin-tight plugsuits and should lesbians look tomboyish. You can't possibly get any legit game based on the "space lesbian school" concepts. It's pure fanservice in it's core.

Not necessarily. At this point you just have no idea what you're talking about. Homosexual undertones and romance don't have to be pornographic, much less ecchi. Skelington knows that is hard to believe, but not everything is sex.
People have been expanding on the three-word-theme. Or have you not noticed?

And finally about the lesbian part. I really don't want this to sound like this is my main gripe with the idea, because it's not (though still a major issue). You've tried to somehow distance from the sex and same gender relationship in your posts, but that's simply impossible. The very definition of homophilic relationship is the sexual attraction between partners. You can't call two schoolgirl friends lesbians until they feel sexual desire towards the people of same sex. Not to mention homosexualism is a serious social problem of destructive nature, but that's completely another story, and I don't want discussion going in that direction. Such thing shouldn't have been brough up in the video games forum in the first place.

Homosexual undertones are very possible. A show like Madoka Magica or some eroges have done it quite well and contain deep and absolutely astounding characters. Romance is not all about sex. There is platonic love too.
But with the bold line it sounds like you're just a homophobic... Just go away.

[icedwarrior]

This wasn't though out at all. The person who suggested it just typed three words. He didn't offer any background story or the actual game setting at all.

Okay, first off, you're only looking at the first post. And secondly, even if he didn't elaborate at all, and never logged into mmo-champ ever again, why must the discussion end there? Last I checked, this was about the process of designing a game, not just "Lesbians. Done. Best game ever! Good job mmo-champ!"

Other people in this thread seemed to just jump on the "LOL! So random! xD" train. And they're spouting words like "cliche", "deconstruction" and whatnot. Making a game "not like the others" doesn't make it good, in majority of the cases its on the contrary actually. Just throwing in unpopular and/or bizarre concepts makes it next to impossible to harmonically merge them together, rather than having a stitched-together monstrosity.

Where to begin... first off, yes, people such as that do exist. Yes, they have voted for that option. But you're telling me people didn't vote for yours because it had Cthulhu in it? I can't even begin to disagree with you more about your "not like the others" comment. If that is indeed the case, why should there be any game different than Call of Duty? Games that are different are a GOOD thing, believe it or not. Have you played Borderlands? Catherine? Games that combine two different elements that actually work?

Now about details in particular. No matter what you might want to think, this already IS a high-level fanservice material. I don't really want to offend anybody (well, maybe a little), but most of the people supporting the idea seem to watch too much school romance/harem shows or think that dating sims are real games, and look up to their favorite titles as models. I'm sorry to shatter your illusions, but this is fiction of a very poor level in terms of wrighting and character design. The "discussion" revolves mostly around the topics of should the characters have skin-tight plugsuits and should lesbians look tomboyish. You can't possibly get any legit game based on the "space lesbian school" concepts. It's pure fanservice in it's core.

Since this argument seems to stem behind "fan service", here's the definition from wikipedia:

Fan service (ファンサービス fan sābisu?), fanservice, or service cut (サービスカット sābisu katto?),[1][2] is a term originating from anime and manga fandom for material in a series which is intentionally added to please the audience.[3] It is about "servicing" the fan[4] - giving the fans "exactly what they want".[5] Fan service usually refers to "gratuitous titillation",[6] but can also refer to intertextual references to other series.[3]

How is this giving fans of video games in general (since that's what this forum subsection is about) a game about lesbians fan service? I'm waiting. I never realized that I idolize models (I don't idolize anyone, to be honest, at least no one that I don't know, personally), so thanks for that generalization. I also never realized that our characters have "skin-tight plugsuits and look tomboyish". If you had taken the small amount of time to, once again, READ THE PREVIOUS POSTS, you'd realize that Ynna, myself and others, have said that we wouldn't have form-fitting suits. "You can't possibly get any legit game based on the "space lesbian school" concepts." I never realized that you're the end-all be-all of video game authority. Pack it in, guys, this game can't be done. Close the thread now. The discussion is over. Let's make a first person shooter, based in WW2, and...uhh, there'll be death! Wait, that's fan service, since we're giving the average video game audience what they want -- more dead nazis, and less story! /sarcasm

And finally about the lesbian part. I really don't want this to sound like this is my main gripe with the idea, because it's not (though still a major issue). You've tried to somehow distance from the sex and same gender relationship in your posts, but that's simply impossible. The very definition of homophilic relationship is the sexual attraction between partners. You can't call two schoolgirl friends lesbians until they feel sexual desire towards the people of same sex. Not to mention homosexualism is a serious social problem of destructive nature, but that's completely another story, and I don't want discussion going in that direction. Such thing shouldn't have been brough up in the video games forum in the first place.

It's impossible. Interesting. I won't say anything further on that part. I didn't realize attraction = sex. (Definition: The action or power of evoking interest, pleasure, or liking for someone or something: "the timeless attraction of a good tune"). I also didn't realize that we have to depict gratuitous sex and nudity for us to convey that they are sexually attracted to one another. But that's okay, stick to your "but I don't want discussion going in that direction" story.

In short, lighten up; sexuality CAN be done tastefully. And I'm sorry your idea lost.

[Reluctant]

I don't think the whole school has to be lesbians it could yust be the main character and her lover. As for a school ff8 had a school setting it could be a training facility of some sorts and the students would be send out to different planets/spacestations on misions. Actual space is kinda boring but yust having a space station school as the home base and having the actual gameplay be mostly on different planets you can do a lot with that.

[Voidgazer]

Well, I mentioned Cthulhu Mythos because it's the most recognizeable example, and in fact a progenitor of the whole cosmic horror genre. I probably misused this to some degree, I didn't actually meant THE Cthulhu Mythos in particular, just a hypothetical alien eldritch abominatios or whatever you prefer to call it.

And I don't regret or envy that my idea didn't win, or anything. I am just disappointed in how one joking idea won just because it appeases some people's fetishes. Again, it wasn't even a well though-out concept, it's obvious the post was just a joke, and people only started to try and add some substance to it later, when they saw the poll results. They simply try to justify their baseless choice. And it is baseless, because there was absolutely no real setting behind the initial idea. Setting is supposed to be a finished solid fictional background for the story. Especially if you make a poll with different contestants, you shouldn't be trying to think of the content of the setting AFTER you chose it. People were suggesting well described ideas, and only pitching their settings in that three word limit becase of poll limitation. Just a shout out of three words shouldn't have been considered a viable entry in the first place. I hope even you can agree that was the actual idea behind the opening post in this thread. Three words can't possibly hold enough information for a legit fictional setting.

Hell I'd even be OK with lesbians from outer space if there was an actual story behind the thing. But there was not. All the wild and aimless speculation comes after that, and mostly from other people and not the original author. This shouldn't have been a discussion of one very raw concept, this was supposed to be a poll to choose one of the suggest finished ideas. And the discussion of more particular topics and specifics of the chosen setting is a matter of future threads.

Now a little about the accusations in being close-minded and yada yada. Accepting all the incoming information without questioning doesn't make open minded indivudual, but a naive person, to put it mildly.. Sadly, most of it can be describes as noise, and not only improves your world view, but messes and degrades the previous data. Every new idea must be thoroughly examined before being accepted or rejected.

By the way, lots of people here seem to be actually close-minded themselves, as like I said before, they try to defend the winner idea by providing examples of eroge or anime shows. I can't argue that personal preferences and opinions play a big role in estimation of artistical value of fictional works of all kinds, but seriously, believe me, so-called visual novels and related works aren't the best thing to take example from.

[icedwarrior]

And I don't regret or envy that my idea didn't win, or anything. I am just disappointed in how one joking idea won just because it appeases some people's fetishes. Again, it wasn't even a well though-out concept, it's obvious the post was just a joke, and people only started to try and add some substance to it later, when they saw the poll results. They simply try to justify their baseless choice. And it is baseless, because there was absolutely no real setting behind the initial idea. Setting is supposed to be a finished solid fictional background for the story. Especially if you make a poll with different contestants, you shouldn't be trying to think of the content of the setting AFTER you chose it. People were suggesting well described ideas, and only pitching their settings in that three word limit becase of poll limitation. Just a shout out of three words shouldn't have been considered a viable entry in the first place. I hope even you can agree that was the actual idea behind the opening post in this thread. Three words can't possibly hold enough information for a legit fictional setting.

Okay, first off, I want to dispel the notion that lesbians are a "fetish" of mine. They are not. Secondly, I was literally the FIRST vote cast, let alone the first for it. Again, even IF there was no "substance" behind it, why does that stifle all discussion, and invalidate the whole thing? Why must we be done with the whole thing? You seem to be entirely close-minded about this. While I will admit that your option would have been my second choice, you have to admit that Lesbians, School, and Space are easily one, if not the, most "different" ideas out there. Something different should be praised and welcomed, after nazi after nazi killing game, zombie killing game, etc.

Hell I'd even be OK with lesbians from outer space if there was an actual story behind the thing. But there was not. All the wild and aimless speculation comes after that, and mostly from other people and not the original author. This shouldn't have been a discussion of one very raw concept, this was supposed to be a poll to choose one of the suggest finished ideas. And the discussion of more particular topics and specifics of the chosen setting is a matter of future threads.

Again, so what? Who cares? As far as I'm concerned, when a poll entry gets 66.67% of the vote at a stage when over 40 people voted, when an entry gets double of the second best after over 80 votes (when the sample size of previous threads have been 11, 32, and 49 respectively), I think it's safe to say the voting has effectively ended. So...what else other than to elaborate and discuss what happened?

Now a little about the accusations in being close-minded and yada yada. Accepting all the incoming information without questioning doesn't make open minded indivudual, but a naive person, to put it mildly.. Sadly, most of it can be describes as noise, and not only improves your world view, but messes and degrades the previous data. Every new idea must be thoroughly examined before being accepted or rejected.

What the hell is that supposed to mean, exactly? That we must wait for generations and generations to "study" homosexuals? I'll just post what you previously posted, as I can't even begin to think of a proper way to defend anyone from what they've said, when you say something like:

Not to mention homosexualism is a serious social problem of destructive nature, but that's completely another story, and I don't want discussion going in that direction.

...a serious social problem of destructive nature? I would love to say more, but I'd rather not get infracted.

By the way, lots of people here seem to be actually close-minded themselves, as like I said before, they try to defend the winner idea by providing examples of eroge or anime shows. I can't argue that personal preferences and opinions play a big role in estimation of artistical value of fictional works of all kinds, but seriously, believe me, so-called visual novels and related works aren't the best thing to take example from.

Oh, really? We're close-mined why exactly? Because we're defending homosexuals? You can try to rationalize your views all you want, but all I see is homophobia.

[Ynna]

I'm closing this thread in 1 hour and 30 minutes. The next topic should be less controversial.
Unless massive voting suddenly ensues, we'll probably have to flesh out the setting in the future, but I'm going to do a few rounds of gameplay aspects first, before coming back to the story and setting.

If anyone has any ideas on how to collaboratively create a story in this format, feel free to share them. I have some ideas, but I'm sure there are better.

[Tyratops]

Aslong as it has lasers, I don't really care. I just thought it fits best with Lesbian Space School.

[Deleted]

Like the idea! Keep it going!

[Voidgazer]

Again, even IF there was no "substance" behind it, why does that stifle all discussion, and invalidate the whole thing?

Because as I said, instead of discussing cons and pros of suggested settings, people stuck with one catchy phrase and started trying to actually fill it up with some content. Different people posted different visions of their own visions of space lesbian school game. Instead of picking up from more or less finished ideas from other people, the topic has shifted to multiple interpretations of a single line of text.

While I will admit that your option would have been my second choice, you have to admit that Lesbians, School, and Space are easily one, if not the, most "different" ideas out there. Something different should be praised and welcomed, after nazi after nazi killing game, zombie killing game, etc.

Different and extravagant ideas often do not work out well when ruthlessly mashed up together like that. And I never ever said a generic military or a zombie shooter was a good idea.

Oh, really? We're close-mined why exactly?

You haven't been paying attention to my post. That bit referred to people bringing up their favorite titles of generally poor form of fiction as examples of quality writing and ficitonal settings. Relatively high quality of a work in comparison to less successful titles of the same genre doesn't add absolute value to it.

[icedwarrior]

Because as I said, instead of discussing cons and pros of suggested settings, people stuck with one catchy phrase and started trying to actually fill it up with some content. Different people posted different visions of their own visions of space lesbian school game. Instead of picking up from more or less finished ideas from other people, the topic has shifted to multiple interpretations of a single line of text.

I guess I'll have to echo what I've been saying over and over: "so what?" This thread, and all threads before and after, are about the discussion and the creation of a game. My vision of a lesbian school in space could be vastly different than yours. Why is this a bad thing?

Different and extravagant ideas often do not work out well when ruthlessly mashed up together like that. And I never ever said a generic military or a zombie shooter was a good idea.

And how will we know other than by discussing them and playing them? Do you think a game such as Persona 4 made a lot of sense on paper? "Okay guys, we're going to make a game about teenagers in high school, that investigate murders associated with a channel that appears at midnight, that magically kills people. This game will be an RPG game, but you forge social connections with others. So it's a dating-sim RPG! Oh, and you shoot yourself in the face to use abilities in battle". Yeah, that's incredibly standard. I never said you explicitly favored a generic military or zombie shooter, but when you're against anything different, it's safe to assume you want more of the same, right? And that's what we've been getting. I don't want more of the same.

You haven't been paying attention to my post. That bit referred to people bringing up their favorite titles of generally poor form of fiction as examples of quality writing and ficitonal settings. Relatively high quality of a work in comparison to less successful titles of the same genre doesn't add absolute value to it.

I'm just honestly trying to wrap my head around what you're trying to say. Is your point "lol you're comparing Shakespear to porn"? Just because there's elements of eroge doesn't mean that all "redeeming qualities" must be invalidated from it.

And just a head's up, in the off-hand chance that you'll be responding to this, I'm going to bed now, as it's 6AM over here. I won't be able to respond to your response, so take that as you will, since it's getting locked in about an hour.

[Affixiation]

If anyone has any ideas on how to collaboratively create a story in this format, feel free to share them. I have some ideas, but I'm sure there are better.

Main protagonist is a lesbian, who is in flight school to join up as a pilot for a spaceship to secure a job as a trader. While in the middle of a flying session ships from unknown origin show up out of nowhere and begin decimating the school with no warning. Being as you are in a ship with no weapon you only have one choice, flee and report the attack to the military/main body of government. From there on you're dragged into conflict after conflict meeting various allies and love interests along the way.

Bam theres a plausible setting.

[sarcasm] The ending will be compromised of you choosing between red green or blue crayons as your favorite. [/sarcasm]