Sactified Wrath on Beta update

[Xeonxi]

Sanctified Wrath You gain Avenging Wrath lasts 50% longer and grants more frequent access to one of your abilities during Avenging Wrath. while it lasts. Holy Holy Shock has no cooldown. Holy Reduces the cooldown of Holy Shock by 50%. Protection Judgment has no cooldown. Protection Reduces the cooldown of Judgment by 50%. Retribution Hammer of Wrath has no cooldown. Retribution Reduces the cooldown of Hammer of Wrath by 50%.

Before: 13 HoW if spammed with every GCD
After: 10 HoW if spammed every time it's off CD. That means you get 3 less HoW but 10 CS, TW, or WoG with 20% more dmg/healing.
In before: It's only beta!

[anaxie]

Oh quit crying, 10 more seconds of wings QQQQQQQ.

Please be more constructive when posting. - Malthanis

[MerinPally]

That's overpowered. A non-dispellable, 30 second long, HoW spamming Avenging Wrath? And don't tell me a 3 sec CD HoW doesn't allow for spamming because that's still every other GCD. You're getting the same amount of HoW out but with an extra CS, TV, or WoG in between.

Uhh...

Just no.

The cooldown is halved and the time extended, therefore you get more HOW out rather than the same amount, and instead of having the current system of HOW - summat else - summat else - HOW it will be HOW - summat - HOW - summat.

Also, read some of the other talents before you cry "nerf! nerf! nerf!" and some other spells.

Oh and also, it's beyond obvious you created this thread as a QQ "omg so unjustified blizzard just likes to fuck with us fix it fix it fix it" with no aim other than to spark an argument - there is no discussion here.

At least ATTEMPT to phrase a discussion rather than portray an argument and expect people to magic one out of thin air.

[Xeonxi]

Oh quit crying, 10 more seconds of wings QQQQQQQ.

10 more seconds of AW is a lot and you're crazy to think otherwise. I'm a Paladin myself, and even I will admit that these changes are overpowered.

[MerinPally]

10 more seconds of AW is a lot and you're crazy to think otherwise. I'm a Paladin myself, and even I will admit that these changes are overpowered.

It may look that but are you accounting for everything else for the other classes? I doubt it somehow and if you're not then there is no discussion here. It may look like an insane buff for us but it's probably inline with what other classes are getting.

[Kenjji]

It may look that but are you accounting for everything else for the other classes? I doubt it somehow and if you're not then there is no discussion here. It may look like an insane buff for us but it's probably inline with what other classes are getting.

Such as...?

[Snaige]

As a holy paladin I am a not very happy with the change. In random dungeons that I did on the beta, my dealing with aoe burst damage was my biggest weakness. Holy radiance heals for well...next to nothing and costs a massive ammount of mana. So the only way to get the health of my party back up after an aoe or a pull gone wrong was popping wings, spamming holy shock to build up holy power and using light of dawn a couple times. This tactic will be a lot less useful. Am just hoping that holy radiance buff will make it worth something as currently it is not worth casting. So even though the buff itself lasts longer, it has zero usefulness for improving burst healing Not a happy bunny, tempted to play my priest on live if it stays like that, seems priests really got the goodie bag this expansion.

[Xeonxi]

As a holy paladin I am a not very happy with the change. In random dungeons that I did on the beta, my dealing with aoe burst damage was my biggest weakness. Holy radiance heals for well...next to nothing and costs a massive ammount of mana. So the only way to get the health of my party back up after an aoe or a pull gone wrong was popping wings, spamming holy shock to build up holy power and using light of dawn a couple times. This tactic will be a lot less useful. Am just hoping that holy radiance buff will make it worth something as currently it is not worth casting. So even though the buff itself lasts longer, it has zero usefulness for improving burst healing Not a happy bunny, tempted to play my priest on live if it stays like that, seems priests really got the goodie bag this expansion.

They're buffing HR healing.

@ Merin - And before you go comparing Sanctified Wrath to Avatar and Nature's Vigil, those are Tier 6 talents with 3 minute CDs.

[Snaige]

They're buffing HR healing.

Thank you but I already noted that in my post, not sure if it is worth to reply and quote a whole post if only to repeat what I say O.o

[Xeonxi]

Oh, you're already aware of today's scaling buff to HR? Well then, damn. I have no words of encouragement for your situation then.

[Kerfax]

As a holy paladin I am a not very happy with the change. In random dungeons that I did on the beta, my dealing with aoe burst damage was my biggest weakness. Holy radiance heals for well...next to nothing and costs a massive ammount of mana. So the only way to get the health of my party back up after an aoe or a pull gone wrong was popping wings, spamming holy shock to build up holy power and using light of dawn a couple times. This tactic will be a lot less useful. Am just hoping that holy radiance buff will make it worth something as currently it is not worth casting. So even though the buff itself lasts longer, it has zero usefulness for improving burst healing Not a happy bunny, tempted to play my priest on live if it stays like that, seems priests really got the goodie bag this expansion.

I'm currently more worried about how we will deal with high damage movement situations. The current implementation of Sanctified Wrath works wonders for that, but this change will hurt the talents power in that scenario.

@ Xeonxi
It's not a very good comparison to go tier by tier for talents. Where druids have throughput/dps cooldowns we have utility abilities (Level 60). That doesn't mean that I should complain that Clemency doesn't do as much for straight dps as Soul of the Forest. You have to compare the dps cooldowns that we are getting side by side to those that other classes are getting before you say that what we have is unbalanced.

[Pasture]

They had to change this for Holy Paladins at least. Holy Shock is massively buffed compared to live. Being able to spam Holy Shock, offensively or defensively, was just too good.

[Deleted]

Basically, you explained the change and labeled it overpowered. Overpowered compared to what?

[Monoroth]

oh come it's balanced now with 10 sec more check that new druid spell same as AW but better and since they introduced it 3 min CD but lasts 30 sec so you can thank blizz for buffing it and balacing it with other class CD's

[Pasture]

As a holy paladin I am a not very happy with the change. In random dungeons that I did on the beta, my dealing with aoe burst damage was my biggest weakness. Holy radiance heals for well...next to nothing and costs a massive ammount of mana. So the only way to get the health of my party back up after an aoe or a pull gone wrong was popping wings, spamming holy shock to build up holy power and using light of dawn a couple times. This tactic will be a lot less useful. Am just hoping that holy radiance buff will make it worth something as currently it is not worth casting. So even though the buff itself lasts longer, it has zero usefulness for improving burst healing Not a happy bunny, tempted to play my priest on live if it stays like that, seems priests really got the goodie bag this expansion.

Tbf that's not a very viable tactic anyway. AW has a 3 minute cooldown. Certainly it's not the solution to Holy's weaknesses.

[Xeonxi]

I'm currently more worried about how we will deal with high damage movement situations. The current implementation of Sanctified Wrath works wonders for that, but this change will hurt the talents power in that scenario.

@ Xeonxi
It's not a very good comparison to go tier by tier for talents. Where druids have throughput/dps cooldowns we have utility abilities (Level 60). That doesn't mean that I should complain that Clemency doesn't do as much for straight dps as Soul of the Forest. You have to compare the dps cooldowns that we are getting side by side to those that other classes are getting before you say that what we have is unbalanced.

Finally, somebody who doesn't rage at me in this thread. I'm starting to see that it's actually more balanced than I thought. I've forgotten that AW has been put on a 3 minute CD which is similar to other classes. And maybe you're right, I shouldn't be comparing certain tiers.

I've edited my first post to exclude the comment on the change being overpowered.

[Frozen Death Knight]

10 more seconds of AW is a lot and you're crazy to think otherwise. I'm a Paladin myself, and even I will admit that these changes are overpowered.

The spell got nerfed severely because of it gaining an extra minute on its cooldown. The change is very reasonable if you ask me.

[Solsacra]

keep in mind, assuming tier 14 ret four piece, you'll have 95 seconds of CD time with 30 seconds of uptime. this could be interesting.

[Tangra]

A non-dispellable, 30 second long, HoW spamming Avenging Wrath? And don't tell me a 3 sec CD HoW doesn't allow for spamming because that's still every other GCD. You're getting the same amount of HoW out but with an extra CS, TV, or WoG in between.

I hope they see the error in this before it goes live! Or maybe have it go live just long enough for the tears to flood the forums...

Before: 13 HoW if spammed with every GCD
After: 10 HoW if spammed every time it's off CD. That means you get 3 less HoW but 10 CS, TW, or WoG with 20% more dmg/healing.
In before: It's only beta!

Almost every spec in the game has been drastically changed; so you have to compare Paladin changes to the changes for other classes, your argument makes it sound as if everything in the game will stay exactly the same except for this one change.

[Gamdwelf]

Shockadin Nerf! oh noes.

Well I guess That is actually better because you won't see holys spaming holy shock while with a damage buff doing 200k damage since they also made its crit chance constant at 25%.