USA Supreme Court decision on Arizona

[mistuhbull]

And what cases exactly has he ruled on where he's been for politics instead of justice?

Because it's going to be said, Citizens United

[IxilaFA]

Pretty simple solution to this whole immigration business...
3 - Legalize marijuana and make it a controlled and taxed luxury item like tobacco. Why? With all the drug violence in Latin America and power horded up by the drug cartels, remove the demand, become the supplier, and you just stripped away all their income and power. People migrate here for better opportunities be it job, education, for their family, etc, because where they are, is a SHIT hole. Increase their quality of life where they are and there won't be as strong of an incentive to run to here.

This is a common misconception about the drug wars. Do you really think they're all about marijuana? Drug cartels sell anything and everything that can give you a high, from weed to crack, to heroin, etc etc, the list goes on. Due to the amount of small time growers and suppliers that already exist INSIDE the USA, I would be willing to bet that the major cartels down in Mexico don't even focus on weed anymore. There's a lot more money in the more potent stuff.

It's astounding how ignorant people can be. Do you think there is only one major drug out there? Marijuana is the least of the United States' concern.

As for your other proposed methods, you assume that people will still want to follow the system. These people do not. They jump the fix to escape their terrible situation, so they can earn money and go back home...to their terrible situation. Illegal aliens don't want to live in the United States, they want to live in Mexico and mooch off of our system.

Sure, some of you are going to complain that 'they'll make up reasons to stop you just so they can check it'... Well, welcome to being black. How come none of you complain about that? We've been racially profiled for years by the police. But you know what? racial profiling is needed to a certain extent. Being politically correct is also being stupid. Yeah, let's give the 85 year old grandma a pat down at the airport so we are fair.. BS.

Blacks and Hispanics are not the only ones who get profiled against, and this law won't change people getting pulled over for stupid reasons, or for spot checks. I'm your average, white young teenage male, and lived on the border for 9 years. I got pulled over in the middle of the night for doing 7 miles over the speed limit on the highway next to the border in Arizona. The officer let me off with a warning after checking my information, and made it very obvious that I wasn't getting pulled over for my speed.

They will pull anyone over who is suspicious, not just black males or Hispanics. If people don't want to get pulled over for it, don't be suspicious. Drive upright in your seat like a normal person, pay attention to your blind spots, move your head, be alert, and have a pleasant look on your face. Don't ignore basic driving rules, even the smallest ones. They can't pull you over for being suspicious if you're not looking suspicious.

[ptwonline]

And what cases exactly has he ruled on where he's been for politics instead of justice?

Do I even need to mention Citizens United?

[Sealed Shut]

Tell your black brethren to stop committing so many crimes then. Blacks have the highest crime rate.

And you just made my point... Who do you think make up the largest % of illegals??

[AbalDarkwind]

This is a common misconception about the drug wars. Do you really think they're all about marijuana? Drug cartels sell anything and everything that can give you a high, from weed to crack, to heroin, etc etc, the list goes on. Due to the amount of small time growers and suppliers that already exist INSIDE the USA, I would be willing to bet that the major cartels down in Mexico don't even focus on weed anymore. There's a lot more money in the more potent stuff.

It's astounding how ignorant people can be. Do you think there is only one major drug out there? Marijuana is the least of the United States' concern.

Before you start calling people ignorant, you may want to educate yourself on the facts:

"According to official estimates, marijuana sales account for 60 percent of cartel profits, about $60 billion annually. "

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/daily...f_business.php

[Dirgon]

I don't know much about the deep political side of this, but I do know that once upon a time I found two illegals bloodied and tied up in the alley behind my house. Far as the police or I could figure they were brought over by Coyotes (the human smugglers, for those unfamiliar in the local dialect), and ransomed for more money from their families. When none came, they were beaten and dropped off behind my house.

Crossing the boarder illegally is dangerous for the people doing it as well as the folks already living here, for one reason or another. The less attractive we make it, the better, I think.

This

Disclaimer: I'm a filthy liberal

Politics demands compromise from both sides, and neither side compromise anymore, and that's disgusting to me.

Anyhow; I think immigration reform is absolutely necessary, and I don't mean the pansy ass methods that have been employed in the past. I don't want to isolate America from Mexico entirely, but I would like better roads to legalization as well as stricter punishments for employers who employ illegals. If someone comes here, illegally, and cannot find a job or a place to live, they'll wind up going "home" and staying there. I think we should be more hostile, legally, to illegal immigrants, but we should be ten times more hostile to those employing them, because they are exploiting them for cheap labor. If they're of actual value to society, either through blue or white collar jobs, providing a proper road for legal immigration will help them AND us.

I've worked with (legal) Mexicans in the past, and the older ones I've known are some of the hardest god damn workers I've ever seen, while many of the younger ones are about as useful as your average American teenager. In an ideal society, we should reward the ones who want to come here and work their asses off towards an American dream, even if it does "hurt" the Americans who are lazy.

Neither side has a useful idea on how to do it anywhere near right. Asking for proof of legal status, however, is perfectly fine with me, as long as the person was stopped for a detainable offense (suspicion of DUI, matching the description of someone police are looking for, running stolen plates, etc etc). I can't speak for racial profiling, though, as I'm a white guy who's never had any run ins with the police other than one officer stopping me for swerving a little because I couldn't find the lane markers. (Late at night after it rained and the paint was faded)

Logically, anyone can see there's a problem with immigration in this country, but I'd rather put the blame on the people exploiting illegal immigrants rather than the immigrants themselves. I think Arizona went a tad overboard, and I think Obama's being a prick by saying "F U Arizona."

[Son of Lothar]

And you just made my point... Who do you think make up the largest % of illegals??

I totally agree with you. I just read your comment on blacks being profiled. And wanted to point that out and basically support your argument. If statistics show that most illegals are Latino, then blame the Latino for why you are being racially profiled unjustly. Its not the law enforcement's fault.

[ptwonline]

But they still do not pay nearly all the taxes they should've had to pay.

They definitely aren't paying 100%. Even legal citizens are not since since some work under the table or cheat on their taxes, but it is accurate to say that illegal immigrants pay even less of their properly owed taxes.

However, that is far different from the patronizing and flat-out wrong assertions that others were making about illegals not paying any taxes.

[IxilaFA]

Before you start calling people ignorant, you may want to educate yourself on the facts:

"The U.S. Office of Drug Control Policy (more commonly known as the drug czar’s office) says more than 60 percent of the profits reaped by Mexican drug lords are derived from the exportation and sale of cannabis to the American market."

http://www.thefreemanonline.org/feat...adly-drug-war/

Hyperbole, from a website supporting the legalization of marijuana. No sources cited, no reports linked, no studies shown. How can the Office of Drug Control Policy, a department known for trying to KEEP weed illegal (ie, they're not afraid to blow up facts) even begin to estimate how much drug lords bring in? Do they go down and survey the drug lords, asking where they get their profits? That same website mentions that 50% of the marijuana is grown domestically, meaning that if they legalized marijuana the effect wouldn't necessarily be noticed. At the end of the article, it even mentions:

Of course, it’s unrealistic to think that pot legalization would wipe out prohibition-inspired violence altogether. After all, ending alcohol prohibition in America didn’t single-handedly put the Mafia out of business (though it greatly reduced its power and influence). And it’s always possible that Mexico’s drug cartels would continue to engage in violent acts toward one another as competing factions fought over the crumbs of America’s drastically shrunken illicit-drug market.

So, Sources 101: Do research on your source, ensure that it's not biased; don't link a source that counters your argument.

[Sealed Shut]

I totally agree with you. I just read your comment on blacks being profiled. And wanted to point that out and basically support your argument. If statistics show that most illegals are Latino, then blame the Latino for why you are being racially profiled unjustly. Its not the law enforcement's fault.

I don't complain about police profiling, i think it is a necessity in their line of work.

[ishootblanks]

Not 100% of the taxes, but generally speaking yes they are.

Many of them are on payrolls, and deductions are made.

They are paying sales taxes on stuff they buy.

most are not on any payroll.. please stop with this nonsense..

not to mention what they cost tax payers in terms of property damage and crime.. when they bring their children up and start consuming social services..

illegal immigration is a blight on this nation.. it is in fact.. and invasion!!!

at least 12 million people is a lot..

[ptwonline]

Im not talking about sales tax because they are going to buy things. I meant income tax which 1.2b is not a lot, and how are they paying property taxes? Doesnt that denote that they own property or real estate? Which they should not be allowed to own.

Why shouldn't they be allowed to own real estate? There are many non-US citizens who own property in the USA.

[Mexlock]

I think immigration is a very complex issue that we all need both parties to really agree on. Somewhere in between amnesty and flat out "kick every brownie out of town" is the real solution. What is true is this; We need both our parties to find a fair and reasonable solution. The Arizona resolution was flawed. It was too divisive and violated too many peoples rights. The fact that is was only pushed by the republican party with no democratic party ideas should have seen as a big red flag.

Having said that let me point some of my biggest problem with the bill. One that thank God was stricken down by SCOTUS. The provision to make it illegal for a "Legal" immigrant to walk around without his Green Card. WTF!! How unfair is that? As a america born citizen are you FORCED to carry your birth certificate around with you? When we start treating people in this country differently then we have strayed from our ideals. The very same ideals that make the United States the best country in the world.

My other major problem with the law is the big gray area of arresting someone because the color of his skin. Imagine a DUI checkpoint, that is only applicable to Brown People..does it make sense? Why on earth is it ok for police officers to look at you and decide that they "need to question" you. In order for a police officer to stop you they need probable cause. Probable cause can't be defined by the way you look, that is called stereotyping and it's wrong.

[TheGhostAgent]

Before you start calling people ignorant, you may want to educate yourself on the facts:

"According to official estimates, marijuana sales account for 60 percent of cartel profits, about $60 billion annually. "

http://blogs.seattleweekly.com/daily...f_business.php

Rofl. Thank you as I was about to respond to his post in the same fashion. And I did cover almost all the avenues right?

1 - Those who DO want to work and probably have no interest to "mooching" off our system, we should be more than happy to provide them a legal method to come and work.

2 - Those wo DON'T want to work and want to come "mooching", won't be able to get in anyway if they do not want to work. That's kind of what the whole guest worker program is for. If their sole purpose is to "mooch", they're not going to get in legally.

3 - Which leaves to 3, trying to get in "illegally" to "mooch", which causes them to be caught if we demand legal papers, drug tests, etc, prior to receiving benefits. Which we then implement harsh penalties and punishment on them.

Sooooo... where in my proposed solution is it faulty or lacking?

[ptwonline]

most are not on any payroll.. please stop with this nonsense..

not to mention what they cost tax payers in terms of property damage and crime.. when they bring their children up and start consuming social services..

illegal immigration is a blight on this nation.. it is in fact.. and invasion!!!

at least 12 million people is a lot..

I haven't seen a recent study, but a few years back (during the Bush Admin) the Social Security Administration estimated that 75% of illegal immigrants were on formal payrolls (and thus the deductions were being made).

[AbalDarkwind]

Hyperbole, from a website supporting the legalization of marijuana. No sources cited, no reports linked, no studies shown. How can the Office of Drug Control Policy, a department known for trying to KEEP weed illegal (ie, they're not afraid to blow up facts) even begin to estimate how much drug lords bring in? Do they go down and survey the drug lords, asking where they get their profits? That same website mentions that 50% of the marijuana is grown domestically, meaning that if they legalized marijuana the effect wouldn't necessarily be noticed. At the end of the article, it even mentions:

I knew you were going to argue the source, so I linked to a newspaper instead. In fact, here's a few more:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/gary-j..._b_696430.html

http://www.change.org/petitions/lega...n-drug-cartels

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...090302205.html

http://www.newsreview.com/sacramento...nt?oid=3796049

They all point to an official source: The U.S Office of Drug Control Policy. But, you seem to dismiss them as an official source, despite not providing any source, official or otherwise, to bolster your argument. All you have is your own conjecture and assertions.

And, as for this,

Of course, it’s unrealistic to think that pot legalization would wipe out prohibition-inspired violence altogether. After all, ending alcohol prohibition in America didn’t single-handedly put the Mafia out of business (though it greatly reduced its power and influence). And it’s always possible that Mexico’s drug cartels would continue to engage in violent acts toward one another as competing factions fought over the crumbs of America’s drastically shrunken illicit-drug market.

Don't try to marginalize my argument by attacking me personally when you couldn't even be bothered to read the whole thing and come up with a logical conclusion. Of course there is no cure-all to the cartels, but trying to argue that marijuana legalization would have little impact on the cartels is patently false.

[Maleficus]

That's pretty much the basis for the conservatives in the current Supreme Court. Scalia in particular is just basically making the rules up as he goes to fit his conservative agenda, and Thomas is just as bad but since he refuses to say anything it's harder to criticize him. In essence he's just a free vote for the conservative justices.

You libs.... /sigh. As if the Cryptkeeper Ginsburg or La Raza Sotomayor would vote anyway other than a raging leftist, but i'm sure that is not what influences their decisions. Of course not! They, like all liberals, are fair minded, interpret the law rationally, and never vote along party lines. Not like those dastardly conservatives.

On topic - the feds, and particularly barry, hate Arizona and have no interest in enforcing the law there. However, they will spend my taxes to put up signs letting me know areas are dangerous due to their inaction.

Heck, i hear Phoenix is a good place to acclimate to the Mexican climate before being kidnapped. But that's cool, Arizona wouldn't vote for barry anyway, so they are on their own. Unless they try to protect their citizens...then in swoops thug holder with a lawsuit. Sweet action.

[Gamdwelf]

I haven't seen a recent study, but a few years back (during the Bush Admin) the Social Security Administration estimated that 75% of illegal immigrants were on formal payrolls (and thus the deductions were being made).

Lol there is no fucking way, the whole advantage to hiring an illegal worker is that you don't have to pay taxes, and if you are the worker then you don't have money taken out of your paycheck and you can send more of that money home, to whatever country.

[ptwonline]

You libs.... /sigh. As if the Cryptkeeper Ginsburg or La Raza Sotomayor would vote anyway other than a raging leftist, but i'm sure that is not what influences their decisions. Of course not! They, like all liberals, are fair minded, interpret the law rationally, and never vote along party lines. Not like those dastardly conservatives.

On topic - the feds, and particularly barry, hate Arizona and have no interest in enforcing the law there. However, they will spend my taxes to put up signs letting me know areas are dangerous due to their inaction.

Heck, i hear Phoenix is a good place to acclimate to the Mexican climate before being kidnapped. But that's cool, Arizona wouldn't vote for barry anyway, so they are on their own. Unless they try to protect their citizens...then in swoops thug holder with a lawsuit. Sweet action.

If this is what you have to offer, then I am done with you. I just wish there was a way to change this forum so that Ignore would hide quoted posts from Ignored users.

---------- Post added 2012-06-26 at 07:22 PM ----------

Lol there is no fucking way, the whole advantage to hiring an illegal worker is that you don't have to pay taxes, and if you are the worker then you don't have money taken out of your paycheck and you can send more of that money home, to whatever country.

That is what you want to believe, but that doesn't seem to be the reality.

Companies either actually do not know that their employees are illegal, or want to pretend that they don't know. So they go through the motions and set them up as legal employees on their payroll, deduct their taxes, etc. They probably understand that as long as the government gets its share, they aren't going to come after you and shut you down. Withold their cut though...

Workers just want jobs. Having to give up some of your paycheck to deductions in return for having a steady job is definitely worth it to them.

[stabetha]

Lol there is no fucking way, the whole advantage to hiring an illegal worker is that you don't have to pay taxes, and if you are the worker then you don't have money taken out of your paycheck and you can send more of that money home, to whatever country.

no it's true they get social security card for $20 (probably stolen from some real citizen) and they work on the books I live in Tucson and as a chef I have seen many Illegals try to get jobs and have seen some of the worst attempts to create fake SS cards misspelled, not enough/to many numbers, the wrong color....
but they have the least amount taken out and then don't file their taxes in april so they aren't paying as much as they should in some cases