Anaxie's Totally Revolutionary SoO Retribution T16 BiS & Theorycraft

[Neldarie]

You'd be surprised but its alot easier to carry "gimper" specs in 25man than 10man on the decent level of raiding (I'm mainly refering to ToT here aka pre SoL shitty hotfix that had to wait for 4 fucking years after all shit and progress was done, hello Blizztard). And seeing how insanely gear dependant ret was in general this expac: 10man is where you do not have the proper luxury of swimming in it.

[Deleted]

It sure is Neldaria, and that is why I stand by my statement to bring the player not the class, when we aren't talking worlds first, and I hope I made that clear pretty soon. Ret has been extremly gear dependant, but it is what it is. I feel it is a bit sad that tier bonuses are getting this mandatory in order to be competitive. I miss the old ones from Vanilla / TBC.

I do however feel that Ret has quite something to offer in 10man, due to how more effective the utility / offhealing / survivability becomes, but I haven't raided 10 in a long while, so perhaps I am wrong. You are right about it being more unforgiving though.

[Deleted]

I feel it is a bit sad that tier bonuses are getting this mandatory in order to be competitive. I miss the old ones from Vanilla / TBC.

I couldn't agree more here. I got my 4-set at the end of this reset. My overall item level hasn't gone up; I just now have 4-set and expect to do much better on damage than I did last week as a direct result. I did also sneak Thok's Tail Tip which may help too Which reminds me; I also dislike the huge power trinkets now have. I miss the days when they dropped a toy cannon or some voodoo gnomes. I understand that WoW is a gear driven game and of course output should increase with level of gear. However, the quantum leaps in output that go with getting the specific items (which may have been sidegrades when considered on their own) can be a bit deflating for those that take longer to get those pieces (I think myself lucky I have the 4-set, a normal warforged weapon and all the useful trinkets within the first month).

[Ianus]

I couldn't agree more here. I got my 4-set at the end of this reset. My overall item level hasn't gone up; I just now have 4-set and expect to do much better on damage than I did last week as a direct result. I did also sneak Thok's Tail Tip which may help too Which reminds me; I also dislike the huge power trinkets now have. I miss the days when they dropped a toy cannon or some voodoo gnomes. I understand that WoW is a gear driven game and of course output should increase with level of gear. However, the quantum leaps in output that go with getting the specific items (which may have been sidegrades when considered on their own) can be a bit deflating for those that take longer to get those pieces (I think myself lucky I have the 4-set, a normal warforged weapon and all the useful trinkets within the first month).

just 2 words fu u lucky bastard

[Floross]

During AW with 4t16 should I prioritize Free DS over HoW or the other way around ?

[Calgar2013]

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread since 4.3 and decided to join up since I have a question that I don't believe has been asked or answered yet.

With Thok's Tail Tip granting a 7% critical strike modifier to everything would it make Reverberating Primal Diamond worth it? I'm confident that the Capacitive Meta is by and far the leader however, surely a 10% critical strike modifier would carry a bit of weight, would it not?

This is only speculation, as I don't have the trinket or the skills to determine my answer, otherwise I'd contribute my findings.

This would strengthen the value of crit significantly.

Thanks for your time, apologies for the length.

[Neldarie]

Hello all,

I've been reading this thread since 4.3 and decided to join up since I have a question that I don't believe has been asked or answered yet.

With Thok's Tail Tip granting a 7% critical strike modifier to everything would it make Reverberating Primal Diamond worth it? I'm confident that the Capacitive Meta is by and far the leader however, surely a 10% critical strike modifier would carry a bit of weight, would it not?

This is only speculation, as I don't have the trinket or the skills to determine my answer, otherwise I'd contribute my findings.

This would strengthen the value of crit significantly.

Thanks for your time, apologies for the length.

No it wouldn't, DPS gain from the legendary metagem is just too big in comparison. The only thing you gain from reverb is crit dmg thats additive and not multiplicative (it wouldn't be worth it even if it was). And it would also devalue the potency of crit rating.

[Aideren]

During AW with 4t16 should I prioritize Free DS over HoW or the other way around ?

You should use the HoW unless you have 5 HP, then you should use the DS and a TV to free up your holy power so your HoW still generates some.

[Roosky]

How good is ret in PvE this tier? I don't trust simcraft numbers as they've said my previous classes were at the bottom but I was always top 3 in my raid in a top 10 us guild, are they weaker than they were the previous 2 tiers?

[Killmour]

How good is ret in PvE this tier? I don't trust simcraft numbers as they've said my previous classes were at the bottom but I was always top 3 in my raid in a top 10 us guild, are they weaker than they were the previous 2 tiers?

It's the best it's been since OP wrath.

[Floross]

You should use the HoW unless you have 5 HP, then you should use the DS and a TV to free up your holy power so your HoW still generates some.

Thanks , though 5HP is rarely a concern during AW since I dump TV at 3HP or 4HP during AW ( unless I get super lucky and get 3 DS in a row inbetween hammers ).

[Deleted]

If you end up at 5 HP with the above rotation, you're doing something wrong in that rotation. DP and 4P both only trigger from finishers, which means you either got extremely lucky with your CD clashes or you made a misake with your earlier uses.

Ok I'm a bit slow and new to ret so I should have a made a mistake but let's say I'm at 5 HP like (still in single target scenario) :
CS-J-EXO-INQ=PROC DP-CS-J then I TV and proc both DP again + 4 parts should I TV and burn DP first or DS and burn 4T16 ?
Anyway my question would be easy to solve if I could figure what hit harder TV or DS 4T16 (single target wise and using my gear setup). I've checked various log and numbers are close but sometimes I have the feeling DS4T16 hitting harder (I've looked into IJ 25 NM top parses).

[Deleted]

How good is ret in PvE this tier? I don't trust simcraft numbers as they've said my previous classes were at the bottom but I was always top 3 in my raid in a top 10 us guild, are they weaker than they were the previous 2 tiers?

www.dpsbot.com

- - - Updated - - -

Ok I'm a bit slow and new to ret so I should have a made a mistake but let's say I'm at 5 HP like (still in single target scenario) :
CS-J-EXO-INQ=PROC DP-CS-J then I TV and proc both DP again + 4 parts should I TV and burn DP first or DS and burn 4T16 ?
Anyway my question would be easy to solve if I could figure what hit harder TV or DS 4T16 (single target wise and using my gear setup). I've checked various log and numbers are close but sometimes I have the feeling DS4T16 hitting harder (I've looked into IJ 25 NM top parses).

I haven't really bothered a lot since I don't have my 4set yet. But couldn't you not just check what your damage meter says when hitting a dummy? Test for 10 minutes and check what your average damage per spell is? This goes for most things when you're in doubt, and you can go into challenge mode too. Obviously it depends on scaling, but you can always check Wowhead for any extra Ap/Sp scaling rather than just X% weapon damage.

But in general if you aren't HP capped, and you still have a lot of time left on your buff, you go for more HP if they are off CD. Only use the proc if you're full HP or have no HP fillers, or you're about to lose the buff.

[Deleted]

@Feliclandelo
Thank you for your answer Felicandelo I've already tried to test on dummy but there is a lot of fluctuation in TV and DS4T16 dmg with all procs and suposedly lack of target debuff even in simcraft numbers are very close but it fails to take in account that no matter what you end up getting more TV than DS4T16 and logically more "harder" TV since you increase the number of windows where the proc are aligned that's why I wondered if someone had already tested or have a better explanation since I'm far from being very good but I'll keep trying !

[anaxie]

During AW with 4t16 should I prioritize Free DS over HoW or the other way around ?

try to go into AW with less then 3 HP. I have had tons of chain HoW>DS>HoW>DS>HoW>DS chains it's insane. Eventually you hit a situation where you are HP capped and have a proc and you are going to have to waste the potential proc. This is something you DONT want to happen. Always use the DS proc because It's much better to use then to TV, overwrite a proc that could of replaced CS or a shitter move.

[Kowloon]

The 4 piece proc is so inconsistent it is really frustrating. For instance, last night on H Sha of Pride when the raid collapses together to aoe the adds I didn't get a single proc. We wiped a few times before getting the boss down and I'd like to say maybe 1 attempt I had good procs at the right time during add phase.

So my question is, for those with 4 piece, does this happen to you too? How do you compensate?

Also, it's unfortunate that the Divine Crusader proc has a 12 sec duration and does not stick like Holy TV T15 4 piece

[Fredzilla]

RNG is RNG. There's nothing to do about it, just go about your business as usual and pray you don't get the shaft.

[cidic]

RNG is RNG. There's nothing to do about it, just go about your business as usual and pray you don't get the shaft.

Pretty much this. There is no saying when we get the procs or when we don't. Just hope you get one during that time but if not go about your business. Nothing else you can really do.

[Huntingbear_grimbatol]

Gear question/second opinion.
Draenei ret paladins. Malkorok neck BiS in place of Juggernaut neck OR Norushen bracers over Immersus bracers.
Alternatively swap about the rings, not sure how efficient that is though.
For those who have forgotten, Draenei/spacegoat racial is 1% hit. (makes hit cap 2210 iirc)

[Fredzilla]

I'd probably say switch necks. They both have mastery still, whereas you would lose the haste on the immerseus bracers for crit.