True Capitalism or True Communism?

[Tonyman64]

Zordayn, you honestly think private courts and police forces wouldn't be abused by large companies? The company could simply pay the courts not to pursue cases against them or pay the police to turn the other way or even help when they attacked small business start-ups. How does a system with no government prevent that from happening?

[Wells]

No, not really. These are mostly agrarian societies -or- they're getting reference price information from the capitalist economy.

We're talking about isolated groups cut off from the world economy, not some podunk town in Ohio.

[Kesolovac]

True communism is awesome, alas it is not possible that is why capitalism is better at the moment, I wish I knew the next big thing

[Tonyman64]

True communism is awesome, alas it is not possible that is why capitalism is better at the moment, I wish I knew the next big thing

Capitalism and communism, elements from each. Capitalism seems to pretty god at pushing technological innovation and not so good at protecting people in the lower class. Why not have a tech/entertainment industry that runs on capitalism and housing, healthcare, education that runs on communism?

[Daelak]

Capitalism has the profit motive which drives efficiency, technological progress, and increases in the standard of living (see the industrial revolution) so it wins as a more efficient economic system.

And if you believe in voluntarism and natural rights (including private property and the right to interact and refuse to interact with whoever you choose).. then capitalism wins again.

To say that without capitalism humans would be inefficient, and have no drive for innovation is the height of ignorance. Voluntarism and natural rights are illusions created by humans. There is no such thing as "private property"

[Deleted]

We're talking about isolated groups cut off from the world economy, not some podunk town in Ohio.

Which means they are low tech societies. And places like monasteries nowadays rely on outside goods as well, and frequently trade with them. The treasurer uses capitalist price information for his benefit in determining what to do inhouse and what do you outsource.

[Falrinn]

Zordayn, you honestly think private courts and police forces wouldn't be abused by large companies? The company could simply pay the courts not to pursue cases against them or pay the police to turn the other way or even help when they attacked small business start-ups. How does a system with no government prevent that from happening?

Yeah, a privatized justice system could only function fairly if it was regulated and monitored to the point it was a de facto government system anyways. Might as well cut out the middle man and just keep it a government system.

Anarco-capitalist systems might be nice in theory, but they only function if every single person in the society believes in the system and wants to make it work. If you have someone with the desire to twist the system for their own personal gain at the expense of others, there is very little preventing them from doing exactly that.

[TheGhostAgent]

Gonna go with everyone else here and agree that true communism will never happen. Human nature will prevail and we're back to square one, so the only alternative is capitalism with a control on prevent monopolies and keeping businesses out of politics.

[Wells]

Which means they are low tech societies.

That the point. In societies where the total economic machine is simple communism is a functioning model because the information gap is nonexistent.

What is essentially ends up showing is that a communist society, or something like it, is not impossible inherently on impractical with our current level of understanding.

[Deleted]

That the point. In societies where the total economic machine is simple communism is a functioning model because the information gap is nonexistent.

What is essentially ends up showing is that a communist society, or something like it, is not impossible inherently on impractical with our current level of understanding.

I never said it's impossible though. Just that once it grows beyond a certain point and becomes a proper "complex system", communism starts failing pretty hard.

[Tonyman64]

I never said it's impossible though. Just that once it grows beyond a certain point and becomes a proper "complex system", communism starts failing pretty hard.

This plus the fact that "true capitalism' is extremely punishing to those who don't do well, for whatever reason. is why a combination of the two would work.

[Narc]

True communism. I'd be screwed otherwise.

[Deleted]

Communism doesn't and can't work so capitalism obviously.

It doesn't even have anything to do with greed like so many claim. In capitalism, people jump out of their pants, to make their lives better, work, generate ideas etc. but in communism, who would bother? It wouldn't change your life so why do it? The result would be everyone wanting to get but no one wanting to do anything so we'd have a poor lazy country where everyone steals and drinks vodka all day long in our hands. (and yes, drinking vodka is a mandatory part of communism)

[Simulacrum]

Neither can exist in the real world. May as well ask for true post-scarcity.

[Alienware209]

Human nature makes true communism impossible.

True capitalism, on the other hand, would be awesome.

YOU DEFINE THIS WHOLE FORUM POST...... <3 you

[NPEC]

Both end horribly. Communism always ends like the USSR and NK, and true capitalism eventually causes feudalism to occur.

---------- Post added 2012-07-06 at 02:27 AM ----------



In "true capitalism" you start out with an open market with lots of small players trying to compete. Often times by doing things beneficial to the consumer, like lowering prices or upping the quality of the product. Eventually a small number of the original business pull ahead and the others are forced to close, then the survivors compete with each other, and eventually either one survives and forms a monopoly, or they combine to form a trust.
You then get a powerful group of monopolies and trusts from all over the market, from steel production, to car manufacturing, and after 2-3 generations they eventually grow more powerful than the government and are headed by obscenely wealthy individuals.
Then capitalism becomes the government and these those monopolies and trusts start trying to move in on each others territories and markets. Mercenaries and spies are hired to commit espionage or outright war against other corporations, and strike breakers are brought in to keep the people from revolting or slowing production.
Eventually the heads of these monstrosities are worth more than small countries and they begin granting positions of power and wealth to subordinates.

Thus, Feudalism rears its ugly head. And once it gets to that point, unless you were born to a family that helped start the corporation, or you have a mind for inventing things or getting into high places, your stuck as a serf at the bottom with 90% of the rest of the population.

Not saying this wont happen, but you really have to have a dark mind to yhink this way.