Alliance Dalaran

[Jeina]

Remember Dalaran was until only a few years ago one of the main human Kingdoms, they were part of the Grand Alliance through at least two wars. Their population is made out of Alliance races: humans and high elves. Their association with the Horde is less than two years old.

Now, the Horde, who only got accepted through a lot of political maneuvering and even then it only happened with hesitation and due to Rhonin's intervention and the fact there were a bunch of common enemies to deal with at the time (Malygos, Kel'thuzad, Yogg-Saron, Lich King), decide to steal an extremely powerful artifact from Dalaran and level a large city with it without warning or mercy, then go in to mop up unarmed survivors. It's quite a big thing, specially coming from the faction who also plaguebombed everybody in the Wrathgate (yes, it was the Forsaken and they got punished by it, but they were still part of the Horde). Without Rhonin to hold them back and with a pretty pissed off Jaina to press them forward, I don't think the Council would think twice before giving the Sunreavers the boot and offering their services to the Alliance.

Actually a majority of the "high elves" who were associated with the old Kirin Tor are more than likely Blood Elves (assuming they're still alive), so their relationship with the Horde goes back as far as the humans.

Since we've debunked the "stolen item" theory, we can move on. Wrathgate was an attack committed by a splinter rebel faction (controlled by the Legion) within the Forsaken. Blaming the Horde for their actions would be like blaming the Alliance for the actions of the Defias, the Southsea Pirates, etc. Furthermore, while Jaina was pissed off, it is likely she overcame that with the help of Kalecgos (thus the sound file). The Kirin Tor, a previously neutral faction, would not allow her to become their leader if she was "RAWR SMASH HORDE!" all the time. The Kirin Tor, as of yet, has no reason to join one side or the other, nor or they likely to do so. They, better than most, know that war between the Alliance and Horde is a bad thing, they're not going to go out of their way to facilitate without extreme belief that there is no other option.

As was pointed out, the tweet was vague. Was the "neutral? Pah!" referring to her, or her actions prior to assuming control.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

Oh, yes. People keep talking about Siege of Orgrimmar as if we're going to waltz in and burn all of Durotar to the ground. I'm fully expecting the raid (that is, what us Heroes would be doing) to be a more or less surgical strike against Garrosh and his closest cronies/creations and I wouldn't be surprised if it was like that due to Jaina's influence.

The fact of the matter is, SoO will involve burning at least the city down. Because we have to have trash, plus anywhere 8-15 bosses. And for a small city like Orgrimmar, that means a romp through most of the city.

[Xeraxis]

The fact of the matter is, SoO will involve burning at least the city down. Because we have to have trash, plus anywhere 8-15 bosses. And for a small city like Orgrimmar, that means a romp through most of the city.

Because we've never had raids before that were trash-less? Who's to say the raid doesn't take place below Org in Ragefire? Hell most of the raid could be underground using tunnels that Garrosh has built for his escape that we infiltrate, after finding out from an informant, and just pop out in the throne room for the final battle.

[Trassk]

Something else nobody has thought of here.

So we know, that Jaina does indeed go off the deep end after the event, swearing there will be blood spilled against Garrosh and his horde, until Kelecgos comes, and takes her to dalaran to recover, probably both mentally and physically from the effects of the mana bomb.

Now, although kelecgos isn't the aspect of magic anymore, I dare say he's still a powerful blue dragon, and maybe even taken up krasus' place in the kirin tor, if not, then he probably has some kind of tie to dalaran, being why he went there with Jaina (although his profile on wowpedia says he is associated with the kirin tor)

Given from what I can tell its kelec that brings Jaina back to health, he'd of spent time with her. You'd think wouldn't you, that he would help her from going down the path of war she was heading on, since kelec showed in twilight of the aspects to be one of the most earthbound dragons, becoming friends with and helping Thrall on his journey, you'd think kelec of all would want to prevent a war from happening, and advise Jaina not to do this, not to turn dalaran into an alliance hub for war against the horde.

Just a speculation, but would seem like a bad excuse not to develop kelecs character after the fall of the aspects.

[Jeina]

The fact of the matter is, SoO will involve burning at least the city down. Because we have to have trash, plus anywhere 8-15 bosses. And for a small city like Orgrimmar, that means a romp through most of the city.

You're right. I'm sure Blizzard is going to burn down the Horde's largest city. Any other "facts" you want to tell us, time traveler?

[Xeraxis]

Just a speculation, but would seem like a bad excuse not to develop kelecs character after the fall of the aspects.

They need to develop all the aspects and their flights. Develop them into enemies. They keep causing issues, becoming issues, and pretty much completely failing at their original jobs as protectors of Azeroth. It's time to wipe them all out and develop some new lore.

[Jeina]

They need to develop all the aspects and their flights. Develop them into enemies. They keep causing issues, becoming issues, and pretty much completely failing at their original jobs as protectors of Azeroth. It's time to wipe them all out and develop some new lore.

They gave up their powers to protect Azeroth. How is that failing?

[Trassk]

They need to develop all the aspects and their flights. Develop them into enemies. They keep causing issues, becoming issues, and pretty much completely failing at their original jobs as protectors of Azeroth. It's time to wipe them all out and develop some new lore.

/facepalm

The aspects did there job as was expected of them.

[Holtzmann]

Actually a majority of the "high elves" who were associated with the old Kirin Tor are more than likely Blood Elves (assuming they're still alive), so their relationship with the Horde goes back as far as the humans.

Probably not. When the Blood Elves turned against the Alliance, they severed their connection to Dalaran and the Kirin Tor. There was a measure of controversy over letting the Blood Elves (as the Sunreavers) back into Dalaran, because High Elves do not like their Horde siblings.

Since we've debunked the "stolen item" theory, we can move on. Wrathgate was an attack committed by a splinter rebel faction (controlled by the Legion) within the Forsaken. Blaming the Horde for their actions would be like blaming the Alliance for the actions of the Defias, the Southsea Pirates, etc. Furthermore, while Jaina was pissed off, it is likely she overcame that with the help of Kalecgos (thus the sound file). The Kirin Tor, a previously neutral faction, would not allow her to become their leader if she was "RAWR SMASH HORDE!" all the time. The Kirin Tor, as of yet, has no reason to join one side or the other, nor or they likely to do so. They, better than most, know that war between the Alliance and Horde is a bad thing, they're not going to go out of their way to facilitate without extreme belief that there is no other option.

You assume everybody involved has perfect cognizance of what happened everywhere and accepts everything as mistakes as opposed to malicious intent. Wrathgate was still charged as the Horde's responsibility, so much so the Alliance actually attacked Undercity to take justice into their own hands. Besides, it's not like the Horde and the non-splinter Forsaken who are still overtly loyal to the Horde haven't been having their merry fun all over Kalimdor and Eastern Kingdoms through the entirety of Cataclysm. For someone who already does not like the Horde, the recent developments would not improve their opinion very much.

As for Jaina being pissed off, she might not be frothing at the mouth and screaming for vengeance, but I think she'd be pretty annoyed at the whole thing about her city being razed by Orcs who also took their time to kill everybody they could and taunt her. You know, maybe she'd be a bit hostile towards Garrosh and the Orcs after all that.

[Xiphan]

It is an interesting idea though, of what IS the kirin tor doing now

Dave Kosak said in the Press Tour that they're helping to guard the magics of Azeroth now that the Aspects are mortal and in need of help.

They need to develop all the aspects and their flights. Develop them into enemies. They keep causing issues, becoming issues, and pretty much completely failing at their original jobs as protectors of Azeroth. It's time to wipe them all out and develop some new lore.

The interview linked above outlines what they've got in store for the Dragonflights. Great to hear mention of the Nightmare, and the overall idea sounds awfully similar to the idea behind the Dragonsworn.
They plan to have the mortal races team up with the flights; the dragons and the various races are set to get even closer, not become enemies.

Anyway, that's veering off topic a little.

[RyanEX]

Oh no doubt, and the fact that they were big, furry and bestial just make it even more clear. But the point still stands. If the Night Elves hadn't said "Oh yeah, sorry about the whole Worgen thing really... Here get on the boat and we'll help ya" Varian would most likely have besieged Gilneas himself, after all Worgen were a pretty big problem in Duskwood - not to mention his whole "YOU ARE A MONSTER DIE!!!" mentality. Wouldn't be surprised if he'd attacked the Draenei too really.... Probably a good thing he wasn't around when they crash-landed.

That's another thing, both Belves and trolls had the whole "Induction into the Horde" thing, which explained why the trolls didn't go apeshit at the though at fighting alongside them.

So where was the official induction of the Draenei, and alot of the questing on their isle just didn't make sense. An Eredar marches into an Alliance camp and isn't attacked onsight? And the text indicated that they already somehow knew that while they were related, they weren't of the same race anymore.

With the Worgen at least in the novel we were able to see them voted back into the Alliance, but ingame I think the big deal would be the fact that not ALL Gilneans are Worgen. Don't forget that there was a big distinction between the peasant militia and the Worgen during the scene where Sylvanas kills Genn's son.

Also, all this kinda spits in the eye of all those idiots that like the cast the Alliance as being racist towards towards the Horde because of their bestial appearance. Only thing "racist" about the Alliance is that they're fed up with giant cows and greenskins constantly encroaching on their land. And before you start spouting off about forsaken and Lordaeron, there ARE still living Lordaeronians about.

[Matt0193]

Ok. This time, the Alliance get a huge fortress and the Horde can have 3 tents and a wooden tower. Fair's fair.

Well, they can keep Stonard.

[Xeraxis]

They gave up their powers to protect Azeroth. How is that failing?

They gave up their powers to protect Azeroth from the one of them that went batshit crazy. I'd say 3 failures out of 5 pretty much means its time to stop relying on the dragon flights.

[Trassk]

Dave Kosak said in the Press Tour that they're helping to guard the magics of Azeroth now that the Aspects are mortal and in need of help.

So your saying despite them dedicating themselves to looking out for keeping magics across azeroth in check, due to the absence of the blue aspect, they would just drop all that, drop any aid the horde would give in this, because of Jaina? so there goals despite being about protecting the world would actually not include the horde in this? -_-

[Frontenac]

So far as I know, the focusing iris may not even be involved in the destruction of Theramore, not physically anyway. The scenario mentions an 'arcane payload' that's going to be dropped from the air, but I don't know for sure if the focusing iris was involved in its creation, or if it's just a coincidence. All we really do know is that it was stolen, kalec and jaina get it back, it's in theramore when it's bombed, and we go back with Jaina to secure it once again. Unless, once again there's a bit of lore I've missed.

In the Alliance quests in Theramore, you must protect Jaina while she attuned herself with the Focusing Iris. Then the Horde commander comes and yells to Jaina to stay away from that bomb and orders the Horde forces to keep her from taking it. It is pretty much certain then that the "bomb" is the Focusing Iris. For an orc grunt, the only thing that matters is : "mage thing make city go kaboom"... So it's a bomb.

[Florena]

Well if the Kirin Tor are dedicating themselves to that, then it really seems less likely that they'd join the Alliance again unless the Sunreavers are up to some very off the wall things. Though even in Wrath they didn't get along, the Quel Delar chain has you actually kill a member of the enemy faction IN Dalaran.

[Slowpoke is a Gamer]

You're right. I'm sure Blizzard is going to burn down the Horde's largest city. Any other "facts" you want to tell us, time traveler?

Afterwards the city will look unchanged because in SoO it was complete. Now they're rebuilding again.


Kill two birds with one stone.

[Jeina]

Afterwards the city will look unchanged because in SoO it was complete. Now they're rebuilding again.


Kill two birds with one stone.

I'd give that a 5% possibility of being true.

[Xiphan]

So your saying despite them dedicating themselves to looking out for keeping magics across azeroth in check, due to the absence of the blue aspect, they would just drop all that, drop any aid the horde would give in this, because of Jaina? so there goals despite being about protecting the world would actually not include the horde in this? -_-

Only if Jaina does turn Dalaran into an Alliance faction. Even then that's not necessarily true; members of the Kirin Tor could still dedicate themselves to the Blue Flight under a sub-faction, similar to the new "Timewalkers" that are helping the Bronze Flight. The Kirin Tor could just act as a gateway to the formation of a new faction comprised mainly of former/ current members without a bias toward any of the playable factions.

Or maybe the idea of the Kirin Tor being dedicated to a cause bigger than the Fourth(?) War might provide reason to presume that Dalaran won't get involved. On the other hand they might deem the theft of the Focusing Iris and the decimation of Theramore through arcane power a misuse of magic that needs to be policed, turning them against Garrosh for his abuse of Azeroth's magic. Such devastation through the use of magic would go against their new purpose and that could provide reason to oppose the Horde in the upcoming War.

It could go many ways if they decide to adhere to the idea of the Kirin Tor helping to shepherd Azeroth's magic.

[Florena]

From what we have learned about Varian's development and the Org raid, they are not going to go on a bloody rampage in there, but rather go for Garrosh, protect what civillians they can, do as little damage as possible, kill Garrosh and leave, there will certainly be damage but perhaps not to the extent as say, the fire that raged and burned down much of Org.