3+ hour long Conquest battles

[DeltrusDisc]

So this morning a Conquest battle started for Deepwood US and other shards around 4AM CST.... I finally gave up at about 7AM CST because I wanted to go to sleep. >_<

You know how many kills we were at by this time? We had about 3600 kills LEFT. x_x Yup. 3 hours for 1400 kills and to think at one point, we (Oathswarn) were at 58%.... that's the closest anyone got to ever actually ending the battle. I personally went from about 5k prestige into rank 28 to about 2k prestige or so into rank 29. Sheesh. I gained 3 or 4 PA levels if I recall right. And I gained at least about 40,000, if not more, favor.

Now I know from my past several Conquest matches, Conquest is not intended to last so long. It is simply boring after 3 hours straight going back and forth with NF and Dom, granted I was very tired, I don't think I would have enjoyed it much more if I were awake. I am guessing that the kill count was going down so slowly because of a much smaller amount of players on the field compared to the norm at peak hours. Which brings me to what I think Trion should do about this, perhaps Conquest should about 5 to 10 minutes in, tally up all the players on the field, and depending on how many there are, adjust the kills left # accordingly. When you have 200v200v200 for example, or close to that, 5,000 is perfectly fine to stick with. A bit less? Make it 4,500 or so. Perhaps make the lowest around 2,000. As we have seen, even that can last more than 3 hours. -.-

I cannot imagine how long that battle continued on for, but I simply said fuck it and didn't care about the rewards at that point and went to sleep. What do you all think?

[willowe]

I think that is fine, actually.

If you want a quick battle, queue for Black Garden. Conquest is for those who WANT a long(er) battle.

[DeltrusDisc]

Don't get me wrong now, willowe. I love long giant pvp battles, however there needs to be some other things to do other than just the extractors and the sparse groups running into each other. Again, maybe I just have a bit of negativity right now because I was doing it when I was hung over (well, I came home from drinking some new beers with a friend and never slept, 3 hours later I am in this Conquest) so it is possible I am seeing it with black-tinted glasses, if you catch my drift.

I never really got to experience old Vanilla WoW AV, but I've heard enough about it and seen the big elemental bosses spawn a couple times (back when I still played WoW) and I must say, there was more to AV than there is to Conquest, as it stands. Conquest has a lot of potential though and I do highly enjoy Conquest. I suppose I wanted, what some might call, a break? :P You walk away too long, you get marked afk and you're booted, I didn't want that.

I just feel like there needs to be some balance, when you have a full 200v200v200, the 5,000 kill count almost seems to fly by, perhaps they should bring it back up to 12,000 or what have you? I just think there needs to be more variance depending on the population in said Conquest battle, for everyone I talked to earlier this morning and then recently after logging back on, none of them liked how long that battle was going. They all wanted a break/to do something else by the time we were 1400 kills in. It was simply too few people for such a high kill count.

That's all I'm trying to say. Conquest is great, long battles are great, but if you can't really be able to take a break during a 3 hour period (don't give me shit dude lol you know no one goes raiding for 3 hours without a break or two!) without getting flagged afk and booted, then you will get stressed/annoyed. It is just human nature.

[artemishunter1]

Don't get me wrong now, willowe. I love long giant pvp battles, however there needs to be some other things to do other than just the extractors and the sparse groups running into each other. Again, maybe I just have a bit of negativity right now because I was doing it when I was hung over (well, I came home from drinking some new beers with a friend and never slept, 3 hours later I am in this Conquest) so it is possible I am seeing it with black-tinted glasses, if you catch my drift.

I never really got to experience old Vanilla WoW AV, but I've heard enough about it and seen the big elemental bosses spawn a couple times (back when I still played WoW) and I must say, there was more to AV than there is to Conquest, as it stands. Conquest has a lot of potential though and I do highly enjoy Conquest. I suppose I wanted, what some might call, a break? :P You walk away too long, you get marked afk and you're booted, I didn't want that.

I just feel like there needs to be some balance, when you have a full 200v200v200, the 5,000 kill count almost seems to fly by, perhaps they should bring it back up to 12,000 or what have you? I just think there needs to be more variance depending on the population in said Conquest battle, for everyone I talked to earlier this morning and then recently after logging back on, none of them liked how long that battle was going. They all wanted a break/to do something else by the time we were 1400 kills in. It was simply too few people for such a high kill count.

That's all I'm trying to say. Conquest is great, long battles are great, but if you can't really be able to take a break during a 3 hour period (don't give me shit dude lol you know no one goes raiding for 3 hours without a break or two!) without getting flagged afk and booted, then you will get stressed/annoyed. It is just human nature.

you will lose no matter which way you solve it. If they base it on timer, then everybody would start tuturing after getting slight lead. If they base it on kill count, then you get back to basecamping like it was before the hotfixes.

[DeltrusDisc]

you will lose no matter which way you solve it. If they base it on timer, then everybody would start tuturing after getting slight lead. If they base it on kill count, then you get back to basecamping like it was before the hotfixes.

I don't know when last you were in there... but mega turrets will fuck you up, brah!

[Khelendros]

So this morning a Conquest battle started for Deepwood US and other shards around 4AM CST.... I finally gave up at about 7AM CST because I wanted to go to sleep. >_<

You know how many kills we were at by this time? We had about 3600 kills LEFT. x_x Yup. 3 hours for 1400 kills and to think at one point, we (Oathswarn) were at 58%.... that's the closest anyone got to ever actually ending the battle. I personally went from about 5k prestige into rank 28 to about 2k prestige or so into rank 29. Sheesh. I gained 3 or 4 PA levels if I recall right. And I gained at least about 40,000, if not more, favor.

Now I know from my past several Conquest matches, Conquest is not intended to last so long. It is simply boring after 3 hours straight going back and forth with NF and Dom, granted I was very tired, I don't think I would have enjoyed it much more if I were awake. I am guessing that the kill count was going down so slowly because of a much smaller amount of players on the field compared to the norm at peak hours. Which brings me to what I think Trion should do about this, perhaps Conquest should about 5 to 10 minutes in, tally up all the players on the field, and depending on how many there are, adjust the kills left # accordingly. When you have 200v200v200 for example, or close to that, 5,000 is perfectly fine to stick with. A bit less? Make it 4,500 or so. Perhaps make the lowest around 2,000. As we have seen, even that can last more than 3 hours. -.-

I cannot imagine how long that battle continued on for, but I simply said fuck it and didn't care about the rewards at that point and went to sleep. What do you all think?

This is not actually correct. Conquest is intended to last as long as it lasts. This is what people don't seem to get. Conquest isn't designed to be a warfront. Its designed to replicate open world pvp. While I don't think it does that especially well, that certainly means there is no set time limit, certainly not one less than 3 hours. 3 hours is nothing.

I'm not happy with the current state of Conquest, but I think Trion may have given up on it. The big problem was it needed large scale changes that should have been made before it went live, you can't easily make such changes when its live.

However the time a match takes isn't one of the issues that Conquest currently faces.

[DeltrusDisc]

Fair enough, but what about people who come in during the last 10 minutes and get rewards for the work of those who spent 3+ hours there? I got no rewards because I left early because it was the healthy thing for me to do, and many others... There needs to be balance, that's all I'm asking. Perhaps reward people for what they've done by the hour or something? I don't mean the exp and prestige you get every 10 minutes, but actual marks of conquest and ISSs, that would make it easier I think for people to be able to come and go as they please, and then perhaps even if you leave before a team wins, you could still get credit for your team winning if you helped for at least 1 hour.

I see no problem with that, though I'm sure you could find one.

[Deleted]

The bloodthirsty EU players sorted it out. Nightfall faction is still forming a big zerg to make sure that all 5000 kills happen in every game, cap extractors to delay it if there's kills left and so on. Games are usually around an hour long. The issue there is still ability to take part, most people either want to go oath or the nightfall train and being left to domino that got people that either wanted to pve with oath or zerg with nightfall and a couple of dudes who just want to afk and get their marks and be over with it and it's perhaps not the most enjoyable and that's why people dont rush themselves too much to join that team. That's why they should randomize teams, so you just queue and then get whatev team you get and I bet people would still do their best in any of them. But sure, if people aren't likeminded on pve or pvp it might end up in the long 4h conquests as well.

And sure, nothing wrong with long battles, but if you are looking for long pvp fights and you are stuck with 4 hours of running around in circles just capping extractors it's just not fun =)

[DeltrusDisc]

The bloodthirsty EU players sorted it out. Nightfall faction is still forming a big zerg to make sure that all 5000 kills happen in every game, cap extractors to delay it if there's kills left and so on. Games are usually around an hour long. The issue there is still ability to take part, most people either want to go oath or the nightfall train and being left to domino that got people that either wanted to pve with oath or zerg with nightfall and a couple of dudes who just want to afk and get their marks and be over with it and it's perhaps not the most enjoyable and that's why people dont rush themselves too much to join that team. That's why they should randomize teams, so you just queue and then get whatev team you get and I bet people would still do their best in any of them. But sure, if people aren't likeminded on pve or pvp it might end up in the long 4h conquests as well.

And sure, nothing wrong with long battles, but if you are looking for long pvp fights and you are stuck with 4 hours of running around in circles just capping extractors it's just not fun =)

PRECISELY my point, Tea!! I cannot even fathom how I didn't think of randomizing the teams! As much as I loved the original idea of choosing one side based on your own morals, it really doesn't seem to matter anyways. Perhaps you could choose one to raise a notoriety with or something, but I must say, the more I think about trying to get this idea down, the more complicated it becomes. Randomize it and there is no longer any "team pride," essentially. =/

[Tarien]

You were playing at 4am, I doubt that the teams were full and so without any conflict to force a win by attrition you were just running about swapping extractors.

They should remove a whole bunch of the extractors though, about half of them (all the ones without turrets). With less extractors to fight over we'd come into conflict more often and actually have to PvP for our wins instead of just PvEing a bunch of extractors 90% of the time. It would also make it easier to win, so to counter that I'd say you have to hold that winning % of extractors for 10mins, if you go below 60% the game continues on.

[DeltrusDisc]

Intriguing idea and has potential to last almost indefinitely. I like the idea, though there seriously needs to be some other things to do, kind of like Vanilla WoW AV. The crafting as it is in Conquest *sucks.* There's no other way of putting it. They got the general Vanilla WoW AV idea down with going out and getting resources or what have you and bringing them back, but not many bring anything back unless they die. =/

We just need more elements and such, but Conquest seriously has so much damn potential and I can only love it more, I think.

[Tarien]

Intriguing idea and has potential to last almost indefinitely. I like the idea, though there seriously needs to be some other things to do, kind of like Vanilla WoW AV. The crafting as it is in Conquest *sucks.* There's no other way of putting it. They got the general Vanilla WoW AV idea down with going out and getting resources or what have you and bringing them back, but not many bring anything back unless they die. =/

You're kidding? In the Conquests I have been in there are usually at least a dozen players doing nothing but crafting and running out to nearby extractors to farm Sourcestone, bringing back 50-200 Sourcestone at a time (might be less now, think they changed how you get rewarded for it upto a max of 70 at a time?).

We just need more elements and such, but Conquest seriously has so much damn potential and I can only love it more, I think.

Being able to summon a hero for your faction would be bad ass, you could tell that hero where to go (To the Eye! To Caer Mathos!) and have him path there and attack and (if you win the node) defend it for you. Imagine two massive hero's battling it out with your zergs all around you. Have the hero be 2-3 times as big as a player, and give some sort of buff to allies nearby.

[DeltrusDisc]

..............

Why don't you work for Trion, dear Tarien? Seriously. I've read quite a few posts of yours by now in regards to Rift and gameplay, game design, and alllll of that stuff. You know your shit.

[Dorfadin]

No idea how you yanks manage to drag game out for 3hours, in the EU we get the 5000kills to 0 in less than 90mins.....

[Solidito]

I've hardly got in any CQ at all this week, tried everyday too.

[Azuri]

I don't do Conquest often but certainly don't hate it. Every time the Conquest match pops all 3 factions fill almost instantly so to say everyone hates it seems a bit extreme to me. Watching raid chat several people try to organize team efforts to do certain objectives each time I've run it so maybe this Conquest "hate" is just flying right over my head. /shug

[Deleted]

I don't do Conquest often but certainly don't hate it. Every time the Conquest match pops all 3 factions fill almost instantly so to say everyone hates it seems a bit extreme to me. Watching raid chat several people try to organize team efforts to do certain objectives each time I've run it so maybe this Conquest "hate" is just flying right over my head. /shug

Dont underestimate the value of rewards =) I remember in wotlk in wow, and at least on my server wintergrasp never worked because we had like 90% horde and rest alliance. Sure they added tenacity, and I even factionchanged to try tenacity but more damage and health didnt stop you from being chain cc:ed to death anyway. Still everyone ran that place during entire x-pac, because every patch they added new voa boss and also updated the vendor so there was always something you needed to buy for the marks. So even with an unbalanced and pretty much broken feature people ran that place every day, every week.
And how long will people fill up conquest? Time will tell after most people got their rewards. Will be interesting to see how they handle the place in x-pac. Will it be a lvl60 only place, and they upgrade the rewards? Or will they keep it as a lvl50 place since it's part of "the old world" and add a new place?

[DeltrusDisc]

No idea how you yanks manage to drag game out for 3hours, in the EU we get the 5000kills to 0 in less than 90mins.....

I think it has to do with it having been a 4AM battle. ;p

---------- Post added 2012-07-31 at 07:26 AM ----------

Dont underestimate the value of rewards =) I remember in wotlk in wow, and at least on my server wintergrasp never worked because we had like 90% horde and rest alliance. Sure they added tenacity, and I even factionchanged to try tenacity but more damage and health didnt stop you from being chain cc:ed to death anyway. Still everyone ran that place during entire x-pac, because every patch they added new voa boss and also updated the vendor so there was always something you needed to buy for the marks. So even with an unbalanced and pretty much broken feature people ran that place every day, every week.
And how long will people fill up conquest? Time will tell after most people got their rewards. Will be interesting to see how they handle the place in x-pac. Will it be a lvl60 only place, and they upgrade the rewards? Or will they keep it as a lvl50 place since it's part of "the old world" and add a new place?

It's a good way to get up in the ranks and I personally just enjoy the huge battles, so I'll probably still do it once I am maxed, however perhaps not as often.

[Khelendros]

Fair enough, but what about people who come in during the last 10 minutes and get rewards for the work of those who spent 3+ hours there? I got no rewards because I left early because it was the healthy thing for me to do, and many others... There needs to be balance, that's all I'm asking. Perhaps reward people for what they've done by the hour or something? I don't mean the exp and prestige you get every 10 minutes, but actual marks of conquest and ISSs, that would make it easier I think for people to be able to come and go as they please, and then perhaps even if you leave before a team wins, you could still get credit for your team winning if you helped for at least 1 hour.

I see no problem with that, though I'm sure you could find one.

Nope thats what I have thought they should do from the start. If people choose to leave (they can't reeenter) they are rewarded based on the number of extractors that were capped while they were in the match. Pretty easy.

I also have said since it was on the PTS that they should randomize teams. And I think randomizing start location would be cool to. Then no one can complain about terrain advantage.

They should absolutely not remove any extractors. Horrible idea. Why not just rename it Codex then.

[zito]

Not sure why you guys want it to end faster?

A 3h even matched PvP battle sounds like heaven nowadays that you can rarely find.