Why does America have so many people in prison compared to other countries?

[Lefthandpath]

lol lefthandpath, i DO believe there are victims in the world, i just refuse to make the criminals the victims, whoever they may be.

sorry boss, yer not getting it. prolly coz you dont want to, but thats ok. i understand why. prejudice and bigotry is the easy way out. you seem to miss the whole "dog biting back" analogy entire.

ill break it down for YOU though (i know itll fly over yer head, but what the hell i like the sound of my own voice right?)

1. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

2. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

3. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

you seem to think telling me that these people would cut my head off and shit down my neck is some kind of wake up call, it aint. i know they would if they wanted to, and i gave them the chance. i freely admit that the ghettos in america are brutal places, and im not a delusional tree hugging hippy that wants to go running down the streets of harlem handing out flowers trying to explain that "not all of us crackers are out to get you".

i also dont think people should be given a pass when they commit a crime, which you have implied. by all means, drop the fucking hammer on em. too bad the stats dont add up on that. theyre out there, you know they are. if white guy commits crime "x" and black guy commits same crime, black guy is gonna get hit harder than the white guy every day.

you act like that aint so. go look up numbers, you like em. just dont pull em from foxnews please, i have a problem with considering companies that sue for the right to lie as a credible source.

anyway theres more to say, but im typing a lot for someone i know is just gonna roll his eyes and practice his goose-step before beddy-bye time.

[Wells]

We have had many times in the last 60 years where there has been economic upturns and oppertunity.....the criminal element didn't disappear.

Of course crime doesn't disappear, poverty never does. But it waxes and wanes. As economic health improves crime goes down in virtually every case.

I live in a small and extremely wealthy town in the pacific northwest. Even with a college the crime rate is very low.

Lets look at a map detailing poverty in the US.



Mind you this data is missing a lot of context, but you get the picture.

Now lets look at violent crime



Simply put, poverty, along with a few other factors like population density, drive crime.

[Theinquisition]

sorry boss, yer not getting it. prolly coz you dont want to, but thats ok. i understand why. prejudice and bigotry is the easy way out. you seem to miss the whole "dog biting back" analogy entire.

ill break it down for YOU though (i know itll fly over yer head, but what the hell i like the sound of my own voice right?)

1. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

2. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

3. it aint a culture, theres a SYSTEM hell bent on CONDITIONING people that they have limits, and if they want to SURVIVE, they better get hard fast, or be eaten by the strong.

you seem to think telling me that these people would cut my head off and shit down my neck is some kind of wake up call, it aint. i know they would if they wanted to, and i gave them the chance. i freely admit that the ghettos in america are brutal places, and im not a delusional tree hugging hippy that wants to go running down the streets of harlem handing out flowers trying to explain that "not all of us crackers are out to get you".

i also dont think people should be given a pass when they commit a crime, which you have implied. by all means, drop the fucking hammer on em. too bad the stats dont add up on that. theyre out there, you know they are. if white guy commits crime "x" and black guy commits same crime, black guy is gonna get hit harder than the white guy every day.

you act like that aint so. go look up numbers, you like em. just dont pull em from foxnews please, i have a problem with considering companies that sue for the right to lie as a credible source.

anyway theres more to say, but im typing a lot for someone i know is just gonna roll his eyes and practice his goose-step before beddy-bye time.

calm down lefthandpath.........no need for such virulent anger, lets just be friends okay

[Twiddly]

draconian drug laws and the prison industry is a HUGE MONEY MAKER
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prison%...strial_complex

Yeah pretty much. Putting it in contracts that you assure them the prisons will stay above 90% full no matter what =drug laws not changing anytime soon as its the only way to keep them full enough.

[frownface2000]

After finishing my Sociology/Criminology degree, the only real answer to why America has such a high incarceration rate is the War on Drugs. Since the 1960's or so, our federal prison population has increase by 1000% (you read that right. in 1960 we had 10% of the current prison population).

If you look at annual arrests and incarcerations in the United States, drug related offenses make up at LEAST 25% of all cleared crimes (crimes where there was an arrest, and the case was brought before a judge), and drug related offenses often contribute to as much as 40% of the incarceration in a given year.

Those are some pretty extreme numbers. The sad part is that a HUGE percentage of those drug arrests are marijuana related, which is where the heavy backing for the decriminalization / legalization movement in the U.S comes from.

Finally, since the 1960's, many of the individuals who have been convicted of crimes have actually been served longer sentences than in the past, which explains why the crime rate in the United States has been decreasing, while the incarceration rate per capita is among the highest in the world (I believe we are now about on par with the USSR's gulag incarceration rates).

EDIT: I apologize is anyone goes and does the research and my numbers are off, as I did not break out my research and statistics for this post. I just tried to ballpark the numbers as best as I could recall them. The point remains, however, that the drug issue in the US has been blown waaay out of proportion.

[Prokne]

"Still, it is the length of sentences that truly distinguishes American prison policy. Indeed, the mere number of sentences imposed here would not place the United States at the top of the incarceration lists. If lists were compiled based on annual admissions to prison per capita, several European countries would outpace the United States. But American prison stays are much longer, so the total incarceration rate is higher. ... "Rises and falls in Canada's crime rate have closely paralleled America's for 40 years," Mr. Tonry wrote last year. "But its imprisonment rate has remained stable."

This is from A NYT article from 2008. Also if you look at a chart of incarcerations for the US the rate goes up significantly from 1980 onward probably because of the "war on drugs." Most prisoners are non-violent crime convicts probably mostly drug related or petty theft. Other countries might also fine people more often or use probation instead of prolonged prison sentences. In states with 3 strikes laws the rate is really high because you can be convicted of a small crime 3 times and be in jail for life.

I didnt find any stats but the US probably also has the highest number of illegal immigrant and foreign prisoners.

[Lefthandpath]

calm down lefthandpath.........no need for such virulent anger, lets just be friends okay

im not mad bro, but i DO enjoy dueling with you here. i like to see how long it goes before i get reported.

honestly man, i get 99% of what you say. i sympathize, really. but youve taken the easy way out man, and i KNOW that yer smarter than that. you know it takes 2 to tango, and just coz im stating that obvious fact does in no way mean im excusing EITHER side of the problem. if you are serious about folks needing to "own up", then we, "the white power structure" have to own up to our part as well. otherwise we'll just circle the bowl forever.

i'd love nothing more than to eliminate any trace of "second class citizenry" in this country, but it aint gonna happen if we tell em not only that "theyre on their own", but "were gonna look the other way when the powers that be work hard to make sure you never get what we have".

[ptolemy66t]

Because we have more laws then people that live here.

[Faloestin]

Not only that, it's basically silly.

Private prison house about 100,000 prisoners in the United States.

There are 2,291,912 prisoners in the United States.

I have a hard time believe that a business that comprises about 4.5% of the 'industry' is a massively powerful lobby.

U.K. also has privately run prisons, and it seems they've avoided this issue as well.

Your numbers are missing a bit of context. Yes, there are "only" 125k prisoners in private prisons in the US, compared to about 1.6 million state and federal prisoners. But each prisoner costs about $50k/year to house.

Companies like Corrections Corp of America have grown rapidly:



As the number of prisoners in private prison have jumped:



An coincidentally or not, CCA lobbying has gone through the roof, too:



Given the pennies our elected officials are generally willing to be swayed for, CCA's spending alone makes them a massively powerful lobbying figure. Throw in what the rest of the prison industry is spending, and you start to understand why getting tough on crime has stayed in style for so long.

[Bullettime]

Their "war on drugs" combined with the the prison system being treated and run as a business. Then many of the prisons have very minimal in means of reform programs and simply breed repeat offenders.

[oplawlz]

Those aren't problems, they're unmeasurable rhetorical cop outs. The third one is also laced in irony. Poverty breeds crime. Poverty is an economic problem. Economic problems are measurable, definable and fixable.

By your reasoning all poor people should be criminals, which obviously is not the case. Crime is a choice, suggesting that ethnicity or income level makes you incapable of making rational choices is insulting. Not only insulting, but frankly implying that minorities are unable to live a crime free life is the worst form of non-violent racism in the free world.

[Wells]

By your reasoning all poor people should be criminals, which obviously is not the case.

That's not my reasoning at all.

Crime is a choice, suggesting that ethnicity or income level makes you incapable of making rational choices is insulting

Get off your high horse. People make decisions for reasons. Like growing up poor and never learning how to use money.

Not only insulting, but frankly implying that minorities are unable to live a crime free life is the worst form of non-violent racism in the free world.

If you're going to say my argument is racist you need to actually understand my argument.

Not to mention you ignored all the data I've provided and just rush off into offended land.

[DeeEss]

Awful drug policies. Prison systems that breed reoffenders. Shitty welfare systems. Systemic racism in the justice system. Mandatory sentencing.

This pretty much covers everything. I remember being in my late teens before I heard something about how the prison system is supposed to reform people. I spent a long time wondering why it didn't really happen, although private prisons don't really have an incentive to make sure that happens.

Dead people don't commit crimes.

I agree with the person who said capital punishment should be used more frequently. Theft should be punished by cutting off a hand. Adultery by stoning.

The main idea behind capital punishment is to dissuade people from committing a crime in the first place. Even then, almost everyone who commits a capital punishment worthy crime is in prison for life anyway, so they don't usually have the opportunity to do it again. An eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth justice system doesn't really benefit anyone.

Due to a large part of the country being uneducated and poor.

Wrong. If you look at the UN's Education Index, the US is hovering around #21 for education in the world. On the other hand, Sudan is ranked at #159 for education, but is at the #199 spot for incarceration.

[Faloestin]

im not mad bro, but i DO enjoy dueling with you here. i like to see how long it goes before i get reported.

honestly man, i get 99% of what you say. i sympathize, really. but youve taken the easy way out man, and i KNOW that yer smarter than that. you know it takes 2 to tango, and just coz im stating that obvious fact does in no way mean im excusing EITHER side of the problem. if you are serious about folks needing to "own up", then we, "the white power structure" have to own up to our part as well. otherwise we'll just circle the bowl forever.

i'd love nothing more than to eliminate any trace of "second class citizenry" in this country, but it aint gonna happen if we tell em not only that "theyre on their own", but "were gonna look the other way when the powers that be work hard to make sure you never get what we have".

I hope neither of you get offended by this, but the folks who are making decisions about where to build the next prison are laughing their butts of at the two of you right now. This is not a culture issue or a race issue, it's a money issue. Neither the people running private prisons, the unions staffing government prisons, or the legislators who take donations from prison interests particularly care about either culture or race. They care about getting paid, and they're pretty happy that you're confusing the issue.

[Lefthandpath]

By your reasoning all poor people should be criminals, which obviously is not the case. Crime is a choice, suggesting that ethnicity or income level makes you incapable of making rational choices is insulting. Not only insulting, but frankly implying that minorities are unable to live a crime free life is the worst form of non-violent racism in the free world.

kinda yes, kinda no.

take a newborn, lock it in a closet, and only offer it the choice of ham or turkey sandwiches for lunch. the newborn has no idea theres a salami or roast beef out there. it is very easy to condition someone to believe they have limited options. race has nothing to do with how susceptible someone is to that conditioning.

it could be a black kid in american thinking his 2 choices are "crips" or "bloods", or a colombian kid thinking "cartel" or "guerilla".....and irish kid thinking "sinn fein" or "IRA".....i mean this list goes on forever.

---------- Post added 2012-08-04 at 04:51 AM ----------

I hope neither of you get offended by this, but the folks who are making decisions about where to build the next prison are laughing their butts of at the two of you right now. This is not a culture issue or a race issue, it's a money issue. Neither the people running private prisons, the unions staffing government prisons, or the legislators who take donations from prison interests particularly care about either culture or race. They care about getting paid, and they're pretty happy that you're confusing the issue.

ah, youre confused about what i was talking about and youre issue has been thus confused causing you to further confuse us all by assuming you know what i think is really behind the prison issue.

i can see how that might be confusing.

for the record, you are spot on 100% right about they why's and whatfores as to the incarceration rate. however, you didnt read my posts closely enough to figure out, i didnt talk about that. i simply said tony was full of crap when talking about societies ills being the fault of the "ghetto culture", and stated that this "ghetto culture" as he perceives it, is actually one that is made from without as well as within.

as for the prisons and why we pack em and stack em, ya its money. i always believed that.

you can always ASk me what i think before you put words in my mouth, less fun i know, but ill shoot straight every time.

[Letmesleep]

As a European I should say that my country also isnt perfect

You just won so many points with me. You need an avatar, I need to be able to keep track of rational people. Props.

But yeah, on topic, our (USA's) prison system isn't something I know a great deal about. All I know is we have way too many marijuana users doing hard time for a relatively minor offense.