add ons in gw2

[Elim Garak]

@ag666 - the EULA is End User License Agreement. You digitally agreed to those terms, and thus are legally bound by them.

You should watch this South Park episode. As it's South Park, this should not be necessary, but: NSFW

No License Agreement can go against the LAW. LAW >>>>>> EULA.
That SouthPark episode is fun - but wrong, legally speaking.

[Deleted]

That's obviously a fake record, right? I can dispute it - and it will turn out as fake. They have to plant fake evidence on my side to make it work. That is my PC.

U can use the hack program and then delete it (like when u stab a person with a knife , while wearing gloves) without leaving traces on ur pc.
But when the security program (human eyewitness) see u , <<they>will have indisputable proofs even if they are fake or true :P

[DrakeWurrum]

No License Agreement can go against the LAW. LAW >>>>>> EULA.

It doesn't go against the law. The law supports EULA. You can find plenty of legal precedence on this.

An EULA counts as a voluntary contract between two parties.

[Lucky_]

No License Agreement can go against the LAW. LAW >>>>>> EULA.
That SouthPark episode is fun - but wrong, legally speaking.

Not so. Our red-hatted friend comes from "rape the customer in the ass and then ask him to thank you or face the United States court system utilizing the law paid for by us the corporate citizens" United States of America. I suspect you're from one of the EU member states with significantly tougher customer protection legislation.

Your argument is not dissimilar to one from Cold War. It's not wrong for a USSR citizen to claim that standing on the street screaming how your current leaders are bad is illegal.

It's just that it's only illegal in certain countries. In other countries with much more liberal legislation, it's perfectly legal. Even if in USSR that sort of behaviour sends you to prison doesn't mean that it's just as illegal to do so in, say, Germany.

[Elim Garak]

U can use the hack program and then delete it (like when u stab a person with a knife , while wearing gloves) without leaving traces on ur pc.
But when the security program (human eyewitness) see u , <<they>will have indisputable proofs even if they are fake or true :P

You just don't know what you are talking about. First of all my ISP have my outgoing traffic logged. In case of SpeedHack there should be increased rate of packets sent when it is active. They can't edit those logs.

It doesn't go against the law. The law supports EULA. You can find plenty of legal precedence on this.

An EULA counts as a voluntary contract between two parties.

No contract can contain clauses that are against law.
Also most EULA's are contracts of adhesion. That is "signed" after purchase. That alone can make EULA null and void.

[Deleted]

You don't own the client, though. You LICENSE the client. It's a subtle but distinct difference.

A better car analogy would be getting a company car from your job. You can use it for almost anything you want, but you don't actually own it. Some employers would let you get the car painted if you wanted to, and some wouldn't. ANet is the latter. They don't want you modifying the game they let you use.

And they do let you use it, have no illusions of anything else. They can ban you whenever they want for whatever reason they want, and it's not fraud because they told you plain as day that they can in the EULA.

Again, depends on the country you are in. EU law states that the client is yours if you buy it, you own it and you can resell it. Also EULAs have little to no weight in most EU countries, esp those with decent consumer protection legislation. You cannot sign away statutory rights, no matter what the EULA states, its alway subordinate to national laws.

[DrakeWurrum]

You didn't buy the client though. If you bought the client, the players of the game would need to turn to you for access to the game.

[Elim Garak]

You didn't buy the client though. If you bought the client, the players of the game would need to turn to you for access to the game.

Don't be ridiculous.

"Pre-Purchase Your Copy Today for Exclusive Bonuses and Headstart Access"

I bought a copy of the client.

[DrakeWurrum]

Exactly. You don't own the client. If you owned the client, you'd have the right to distribute copies yourself.


You may think it's ridiculous, but when it comes to legality, those fine nit-picky details are the major distinctions.

[Elim Garak]

Exactly. You don't own the client. If you owned the client, you'd have the right to distribute copies yourself.
You may think it's ridiculous, but when it comes to legality, those fine nit-picky details are the major distinctions.

I can distribute it. There's nothing illegal about it. I own my copy of the client. And the word "copy" is here only because it's software. I cannot SELL copies of it, though.

[Lucky_]

I can distribute it. There's nothing illegal about it. I cannot SELL copies of it.

You can sell it legally within bounds of EU as far as I know. GB may be an exception here due to it's anglo-saxon US style legislation. EULA clauses cannot remove right of re-selling in most EU member states. Attempt to enforce such clause in court of law would fail miserably for this reason.

They can however terminate the service to anyone for any reason. That is not illegal, as it does nothing to the software you bought. It simply blocks you from accessing outside service.


The only requirement is that when selling a copy you own, the copy is in fact moved from one party to the other. You are required (afaik) to destroy your own copy when sale and transition is complete as you no longer own it.

[Elim Garak]

The only requirement is that when selling a copy you own, the copy is in fact moved from one party to the other. You are required (afaik) to destroy your own copy when sale and transition is complete as you no longer own it.

Exactly, that's why I said I cannot sell COPIES of it.

---------- Post added 2012-08-09 at 12:43 AM ----------

They can however terminate the service to anyone for any reason. That is not illegal, as it does nothing to the software you bought. It simply blocks you from accessing outside service.

Actually no. I can't use client without the service. Service is part of the purchase. So if they sell me client and then deny service for no reason - it's fraud.

[Deleted]

You just don't know what you are talking about. First of all my ISP have my outgoing traffic logged. In case of SpeedHack there should be increased rate of packets sent when it is active. They can't edit those logs.

Glad to know , if i am gonna accused to speed hacks :P
What if u are accused to <<generic hacks>> (they dont specify the hack-but u dont get an answer from them ?) , what would u do ? :P

<This account was closed because one or more characters were identified using an unauthorized cheat program, also known as a "hack." These programs provide character benefits normally not achievable in the xxx(game). Such benefits include, but are not limited to, increased speed, teleportation, or running through walls/boundaries. Use of these unauthorized programs harms the game environment because they offer an unfair advantage over other players and supersede the intended limits of the game>>

[Elim Garak]

Glad to know , if i am gonna accused to speed hacks :P
What if u are accused to <<generic hacks>> (they dont specify the hack-but u dont get an answer from them ?) , what would u do ? :P

<This account was closed because one or more characters were identified using an unauthorized cheat program, also known as a "hack." These programs provide character benefits normally not achievable in the xxx(game). Such benefits include, but are not limited to, increased speed, teleportation, or running through walls/boundaries. Use of these unauthorized programs harms the game environment because they offer an unfair advantage over other players and supersede the intended limits of the game>>

Appeal. If they ignore me. Sue. I know I didn't hack and they can't prove that I did.

[Lucky_]

Actually no. I can't use client without the service. Service is part of the purchase. So if they sell me client and then deny service for no reason - it's fraud.

Nay. In most countries, the legal concept is that you purchase the product that allows you to connect to the service. As a result service is NOT the product you purchased, and therefore is up to contractual obligations between you and the company.

In this regard, EULA will apply as it is the contract between you and the company.

Example: if this was not true, company could not ban someone for cheating legally, as such person would be able to successfully sue on the grounds that company cannot block him from accessing the service he paid for on grounds of actions that are not illegal but simply against the EULA.

[Elim Garak]

Nay. In most countries, the legal concept is that you purchase the product that allows you to connect to the service. As a result service is NOT the product you purchased, and therefore is up to contractual obligations between you and the company.

That's for subscription based games. You buy the client and then buy access time. In case of GW - you buy everything at once. As they advertise.

Example: if this was not true, company could not ban someone for cheating legally, as such person would be able to successfully sue on the grounds that company cannot block him from accessing the service he paid for on grounds of actions that are not illegal but simply against the EULA.

No, cheating is disrupting the service for all clients. It is legal for them to ban the cheater as protection from greater damages to the service and their profits. It has nothing to do with EULA per se. You can be banned from McDonnalds.

[Lothaeryn]

TBH the only thing I wish I could do is customize the inventory UI (god that was atrocious, scroll down inventory was hectic) and resize a few HUD items, other than that I was content with what was there.

Addons arent needed IMO, just more customization/skins maybe.

[rhinomatic]

And remember, if they tell you they can withhold service for whatever reason, and then withhold service, it isn't fraud because they never misled you.

Unless Europe has a completely different definition of the word "fraud" than the Oxford Dictionary.

[Lucky_]

That's for subscription based games. You buy the client and then buy access time. In case of GW - you buy everything at once. As they advertise.


No, cheating is disrupting the service for all clients. It is legal for them to ban the cheater as protection from greater damages to the service and their profits. It has nothing to do with EULA per se. You can be banned from McDonnalds.

You are incorrect on both parts, however I am uninterested to go into further details as they would require significant research and source quoting on my part and something I would normally charge you consultation fees for.

You can google the issue as many of the cases involved are fairly well documented. It will likely take you a few days to go through necessary cases and you may need significant understanding of legal framework both on EU level and within member states, as well as decent understanding of language of particular state you're interested in.

[rhandric]

That's for subscription based games. You buy the client and then buy access time. In case of GW - you buy everything at once. As they advertise.


No, cheating is disrupting the service for all clients. It is legal for them to ban the cheater as protection from greater damages to the service and their profits. It has nothing to do with EULA per se. You can be banned from McDonnalds.

Part of what you agree to is the Terms of Service (separate from the EULA), which, while you don't have to pay an ongoing service charge (subscription), is binding, likely more so than the EULA. Without actually going through the ToS and EULA (go for it if you want, I cba), it's likely the ToS that gives them leave to ban players at their discretion (if not in both).