Do you think blizzard will react to the massive wish for a return to tbc style?

[voidillusion]

so let me get this straight

you want

endless grinds

No, TBC didnt have endless grinds either so i dunno what you're talking about.

forget poor itemization on tier gear and raid drops

Still happens and will always happen until same classes have diferent specs that value more 1 stat over the other

throttled stats during resistance fights making bosses like Baron Geddon feel harder than they actually were mechanically

Why not? Better this than having a super boring fight like spine where they just put the output lvls for dps and healing really high and mechanic wise has little to no challenge.

certain specs being completely useless in a raiding environment.

Only happened to a couple, but still yes its true.

odd questing that took you back and forth between zones that you spend more time and money than quest rewards offered on flight points than actually questing broken pvp, broken raids on release that took an entire tier to fix

YES, give me odd questing that takes me back and forth between zones, PLEASE!

back to having 61 point tallent system that you had a total of ...1 possible way of doing it and anything else you were doing it wrong

I guess its better than not having any tallent tree at all and have the illusion of chosing possibly relevant spells, matter of preference i guess, at least true hybrids existed.

encounters that...well were cleared by a total of 200 guilds? Yea lets create content that we won't see till next expansion sounds like a good idea.
what else i miss?

In vanilla, maybe, in tbc? You don't know what you're talking about.

yea a few people that cling to nostalgia of playing with friends confuse it with actual content being good

It's not nostalgia, its having the inteligence to know and see that "fast food" gaming gets pretty old, pretty fast, and gives no satisfaction what so ever.

[Deleted]

Curious, can someone tell me how difficult TBC heroics actually were. Didn't manage to experience end game content during that time.

[voidillusion]

Curious, can someone tell me how difficult TBC heroics actually were. Didn't manage to experience end game content during that time.

They weren't that dificult, they just required you to play correctly as in not overagroing the tank, using CC in big packs, not chain pulling the entire instance unless you reaaaaly overgeared it.

You just had to use your brain a little instead of zombie'ing through it.

[ripponesan]

1. It is FAR from massive, maybe it is even just you.
2. BLizzard already stated MORE Than once, that this wont happen.

So the whole thread is redundant.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 09:36 AM ----------

Curious, can someone tell me how difficult TBC heroics actually were. Didn't manage to experience end game content during that time.

Well as a colthie (mage) in a heroic 5-man EVERY mob oneshotted you if you pulled aggro. If you were extremeley lucky you survived the first hit with some 1% life left. Pulling aggro from the tank was a NOGO.
And unless your tank was raidgeared there were some trash packs where you had to use crowd control, because the tank was not healable tanking the whole pack.

These were the most differenct things.

[HeedmySpeed]

They weren't that dificult, they just required you to play correctly

But my casual brain doesn't allow me to play correctly. I play how I want to play. And if I can't beat dungeons using my one AoE spell then the content should be nerfed for me! I pay $15, I call the shots!

[Lilija]

I guess many people disagree it was getting better otherwise they wouldn't leave/not start playing the game. And without Vanilla and TBC which brought in 12 million subscribers there wouldn't be MoP in a few months.

Some people disagree for sure, however, known numbers show that more people keep playing than are quitting. During TBC there were mass quits as well because game made brick walls for so many people game became unplayable at a reasonable level - those people moved on with their lives but knowing some of them I know they would appreciate current gameplay much more since their main issue with TBC was how easy you could get stuck not because of your own skill or dedication but due to many reasons you had no influence on.

Also, neither Vanilla nor TBC brought 12mil subs - WotLK did, which was a new design. 3mil who quit since then is stil much less than 9mil who play. Also note a lot of people quit due to real life rather than their oppinion of the game.

[Danifilth]

What is the point of releasing content if the game is going to be the same as bc that was released a long time ago. if i was blizzard i would shut down the game no point in releasing new content if everyone is going to cry about it. Blizzard tried it in cata they lost a lot of subs i am pretty sure that's not going to happen again.

[Lilija]

Any business losing 25% of customers is bad, even if they have the biggest online subscription for any game, to lose 25% is really bad.

Other mmos lost more %

[cortelas]

Any business losing 25% of customers is bad, even if they have the biggest online subscription for any game, to lose 25% is really bad.

blizzard looses 25%+ every expansion cycle. It wasn't until cata they released the sub numbers. I would have loved to see how many people left once ulduar was released.

[Lilija]

They weren't that dificult, they just required you to play correctly as in not overagroing the tank, using CC in big packs, not chain pulling the entire instance unless you reaaaaly overgeared it.

You just had to use your brain a little instead of zombie'ing through it.

You forgot to add that you needed to play one of very few accepted specs - otherwise you could forget about stepping into any instance without a close group of friends. Pugs were horrible, overelitist (they accepted ONLY the easiest solutions), never took a challange of trying something new.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 09:53 AM ----------

blizzard looses 25%+ every expansion cycle. It wasn't until cata they released the sub numbers. I would have loved to see how many people left once ulduar was released.

When I think about it I noticed huge drop in raiders numbers on my server at that time.

[HeedmySpeed]

Other mmos lost more %

Arguing about video games from a business stand point is pointless.
Does the fact that a game sold a ton of copies make it good to you?
No.
Lil Wayne sells more records today than most of your favorite artists, does that make him better?
No.

[voidillusion]

You forgot to add that you needed to play one of very few accepted specs - otherwise you could forget about stepping into any instance without a close group of friends. Pugs were horrible, overelitist (they accepted ONLY the easiest solutions), never took a challange of trying something new.

I didnt forget to add shit, you add that because that's how YOU see it.

I don't see it that way and i apreciate you don't "add" stuff i "forgot" like if we are a hive mind.

[Deleted]

Curious, can someone tell me how difficult TBC heroics actually were. Didn't manage to experience end game content during that time.

As Voidillusion said, they weren't particularly difficult. They just required a little bit more discipline from dps or alternatively a good tank and healer. When people want the game to be more TBC-like, they don't usually just talk about difficulty, although ofc it plays an important role too. TBC heroics weren't any harder than the Cata heroics at the start, before the nerfs and before people outgeared them, at least that's my opinion. One important difference is though, that in TBC no one could ever outgear a heroic as much as now pretty much everyone does outgear the Cata heroics.

[Lilija]

Arguing about video games from a business stand point is pointless.
Does the fact that a game sold a ton of copies make it good to you?
No.
Lil Wayne sells more records today than most of your favorite artists, does that make him better?
No.

I find the game good for other reasons. I'm simply giving a counter argument to obviously exaggurated arguments against it.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 10:00 AM ----------

I didnt forget to add shit, you add that because that's how YOU see it.

I don't see it that way and i apreciate you don't "add" stuff i "forgot" like if we are a hive mind.

And how you see stuff is superior to how others see stuff how exactly? Only because you don't see something doesn't mean it's untrue. What I have described was a fact for everyone who did not play FoTM spec in TBC both in PvE and PvP. If you haven't experienced that it doesn't mean others haven't as well.

[Deleted]

You forgot to add that you needed to play one of very few accepted specs - otherwise you could forget about stepping into any instance without a close group of friends. Pugs were horrible, overelitist (they accepted ONLY the easiest solutions), never took a challange of trying something new.

I agree with that to a certain extent. Although it is my experience that you could clear every TBC heroic with pretty much any setup (even mgt without classic CCers worked), I do believe that it was a lot more important to make friends in the game than it is now, as it was a lot easier to get into a group if you were playing an exotic spec.

[Lilija]

One important difference is though, that in TBC no one could ever outgear a heroic as much as now pretty much everyone does outgear the Cata heroics.

Ofc you could outgear heroics in TBC. Same as you could outgear 5 mans in Vanilla. People didn't know that because when you were outgearing them you already had no reason to visit them for a long, long time.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 10:09 AM ----------

I agree with that to a certain extent. Although it is my experience that you could clear every TBC heroic with pretty much any setup (even mgt without classic CCers worked), I do believe that it was a lot more important to make friends in the game than it is now, as it was a lot easier to get into a group if you were playing an exotic spec.

It was easier to make friends back in TBC - it was exactly the same.

I also agree that it was possible to do heroics in every class/spec combination (ofc with a tank, healer and 3 random dps) but pugs did not accept that because pugs never wanted to do anything in any other manner than the easiest possible. The effect of that demand was that many people with exotic talent trees were cut off from pugging. Nowadays it's not the case which from community standpoint is much better solution. Real pugs could not exist pre WotLK. Pugs back then had huge, overexaggurated demands which was a nightmare for anyone new to the game.

[voidillusion]

I also agree that it was possible to do heroics in every class/spec combination (ofc with a tank, healer and 3 random dps) but pugs did not accept that because pugs never wanted to do anything in any other manner than the easiest possible. The effect of that demand was that many people with exotic talent trees were cut off from pugging. Nowadays it's not the case which from community standpoint is much better solution. Real pugs could not exist pre WotLK. Pugs back then had huge, overexaggurated demands which was a nightmare for anyone new to the game.

And pugs in LK demanded ridiculous Gearscore to do faceroll content. M8 retards always existed and will always exist, that wasnt exclusive to TBC.

[Deleted]

Ofc you could outgear heroics in TBC. Same as you could outgear 5 mans in Vanilla. People didn't know that because when you were outgearing them you already had no reason to visit them for a long, long time.

I didn't say you couldn't outgear them, I said you couldn't outgear them to the extent you do now, cause gear inflation wasn't that extreme. Add to that the game mechanics of the time, that didn't enable you to just run in and aoe everything down, because classes didn't have these kinds of ablities, threat was an issue and mobs actually hit non-tanks pretty hard.

---------- Post added 2012-08-10 at 10:20 AM ----------

Pugs back then had huge, overexaggurated demands which was a nightmare for anyone new to the game.

That's a generalization though. I was playing a tank in TBC and I ran a lot of pugs for random people. I couldn't care less what class or spec they were. I know there were others who did care, but you're making it sound as if anyone was forced to never form any relations in the game and pug with 4 random people. Ofc, if you are playing completely anonymous, not ever talking or making any friends in the game you'd have it a lot easier now to get geared up. However, if you were dps and you'd befriend a tank or healer, or get into a nice guild, you could run dungeons a lot faster - and this was possible because you would actually play with people you had a chance of seeing again. If you were tank or healer, you never had a problem getting int a heroic anyway, more like the opposite.

[Holy]

I really really enjoy the way WoW is evolving. I started playing back in Vanilla and I quit at level 49. I wasn't having fun playing the game at all. It left such a bad taste in my mouth, I didn't play TBC at all. I came back in WotLK because some of my friends where playing and I was dumbfounded. There was so much stuff to do, and I didn't have to grind crocolisk in Dustwallow to level up any more because there where enough quest! Then I noticed the achievements and the fact I could actually have ALL my pets now (my Vanilla Tauren Hunter had to use half of a bag to save my pets and mount...) and there was stuff to do outside of dungeons! I then started raiding. It was in the time of Naxx, so I could have gone forward had the progression been linear, but it wasn't. I wasn't mad about the fact someone who started after me could play Ulduar either because I am not an arrogant prick. Even now, during the 'universally' *cough* *cough* hated Cataclysm, I am still having a lot of fun because it give you options. I'm sorry, but WotLK and Cata are more fun then vanilla (and probably TBC, which I didn't play like I said, but it was surely better then vanilla.) You complain that stuff is too easy or not rewarding or whatever, but even barley cracking into heroic raids I fill like I've been challenged and rewarded for my time and work properly. The kicker is if I wanted to raid hardcore 7 days a week, I probably have the skillset. In fact, given the TIME anyone could be a hardcore raider. Hardcore raiding is time only, given the time anyone you insultingly call a casual could be as good as you. Their effort put in is exactly the same, so I don't see any reason to whine about such matters.

Wow is heading into MoP now which is promising to be the best expansion ever. I'm not even kidding, it could even dethrone Wrath which added in so so so so so much content. I look forward to the future and feel genuinely sorry that so many people are stuck looking at the past.

[Ghul]

i dont have any desire for wow to go back to the tbc days... please dont try to speak for everyone Oo