Texas Executes Mentally Retarded Man

[Aeluron Lightsong]

You are absolutely correct, I mean there's a "judicial system" in the country for a reason, no? Just because your "iq" is low doesn't mean you are not subject to the penalties imposed based on crime.

Why do you feel that because your "iq" is so low that you somehow don't "understand" that killing someone (example obviously) is "wrong"?

Because mentally challenged people don't always know the difference between right and wrong let alone be able to speak coherently. Which isn't the case, still two wrongs DO NOT make a right.

Texas + 33 other states. So you can pretty much just say the United States.

I know, doesn't mean I agree with it. It should happen, yes I know it's expensive but that's a dark road to go down to.

[sizzlinsauce]

How do you know he killed someone? No evidence.

he was found guilty of it. want to keep this argument up? then by all means ask the supreme court if he's guilty.

[Tinykong]

No one has at any point said that people who commit crimes aren't accountable. What I'm asking you is why so many black people commit crimes as opposed to white people per capita.

Why do you think that is?

I don't know why they do, I never claimed that I had a reason. I merely said they commit more crimes, and are incarcerated more per capita.

Saying their environment "makes" them commit crimes is an excuse. Not every black person living in poverty is a criminal.

[alturic]

Wrong. This is going to come up a lot as it usually does in death penalty related threads (like 3-4 times per page) It is NOT cheaper to kill someone than it is to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives. Not talking about the actual price of the injection or electricity or whatever way you want them to die; the cost of all the paperwork, appeals, legal aspect, the higher security that goes along with death row inmates etc... etc... all serve to bring the price of the death penalty above what it would cost to house someone for the rest of their sentence.

Let me dissect your post example by example. So you think that the paperwork involved (let's just pretend its a year) makes housing the person and providing meals for (on average let's say 30 years old is your "typical" life offender) 50-60 years less? The higher security? I don't see why there's a need for any security? Throw them in a cell, if they hang themselves, so be it. I would surely hope your state/countries prisons aren't so deplorable that it's "easy" to dig your way through it?

As far as the appeals/legal aspect, you have that with any life/death sentence, no? That leads to the whole "max" appeals. You shouldn't be able to effectively stay on death row because your lawyer appeals every ruling, as my example of George Banks, right?

It's simple. If people think that the "death" penalty is wrong, why not think ANY "penalty" is wrong? I mean why does it matter if it's "death" or "life" or "10 years" or "1 month"?

The fact of the matter, a jury of your 12 peers (in the US) found the evidence against you to say you committed the crime. If anything blame the "peers" and not the system/penalties.

[Aeluron Lightsong]

I don't know why they do, I never claimed that I had a reason. I merely said they commit more crimes, and are incarcerated more per capita.

Saying their environment "makes" them commit crimes is an excuse. Not every black person living in poverty is a criminal.

It's a contributing factor I think is what he is saying. Doesn't mean it should excuse them, it just makes us understand WHY it happened.

[Wells]

I don't know why they do, I never claimed that I had a reason. I merely said they commit more crimes, and are incarcerated more per capita.

Saying their environment "makes" them commit crimes is an excuse. Not every black person living in poverty is a criminal.

Then let me ask you this.

Does our environment impact how we act and grow up?

[Deleted]

he was found guilty of it. want to keep this argument up? then by all means ask the supreme court if he's guilty.

Of course he was found guilty, he had no one to help defend himself and he confessed because he don't know what's going on.

It doesn't mean he is guilty though, he might be, he might not, the only evidence they got was someone saying he shot him..

[alturic]

Having a lower IQ actually does mean you are not subject to the same penalties as someone who is of sufficient mental capacity in the United States. That's the actual problem. That there are rules about this that this decision just spat in the face of.

Whether you think a mentally retarded individual should be eligible for execution is a different issue.

While I somewhat "agree" with what you are saying, I hope others "realize" what you are saying. Yea, you heard it here, play dumb (hell I'm sure most of the welfare/SSDI abusers can do this easily) and you can commit any crime you want without fear of getting the death penalty, at least in the US according to what some people "want".

[hellosaltygoodness]

ehhh my foster sister is also slightly under the mental retardation threshold, about the same IQ as him. she is definitely quite intelligent enough to know right from wrong. like this guy, she is also a psycho.

[jbombard]

Wrong. This is going to come up a lot as it usually does in death penalty related threads (like 3-4 times per page) It is NOT cheaper to kill someone than it is to keep them in jail for the rest of their lives. Not talking about the actual price of the injection or electricity or whatever way you want them to die; the cost of all the paperwork, appeals, legal aspect, the higher security that goes along with death row inmates etc... etc... all serve to bring the price of the death penalty above what it would cost to house someone for the rest of their sentence.

You got any facts to back that up?
It costs $47,102 to house one prisoner per year in the state of Californina.

http://www.lao.ca.gov/laoapp/laomenu...t.aspx?catid=3

Now times that times 40 year for a life sentence and you get $1,884,080.
And that isn't even accounting for inflation.

So are you honestly saying the price of lethal injection is higher? With a straight face?

[alturic]

It's a contributing factor I think is what he is saying. Doesn't mean it should excuse them, it just makes us understand WHY it happened.

So let me see if I understand the people with the whole "blacks commit more crime because they live in poverty" aspect. So because I'm jobless, and living on 1 paycheck, minimum wage, I decide I NEED to commit a crime to provide for myself or my family?

That is the most complete pile of horse-shit I have ever heard. It really is simple, criminals commit crimes, environment does not "make" people commit crime. Going by the logic of "blacks" commit crime because a majority of them live in poverty (since the person asking the question said blacks commit more crime per capita) is saying that living in poverty MAKES people commit crime, regardless of race. Which is completely untrue. If that was the case, the country (the US) would have an insane crime rate, which is doesn't.

[Tinykong]

Then let me ask you this.

Does our environment impact how we act and grow up?

You can keep trying to shape the excuse that the environment forces them to commit crimes, but I'm not going to ever agree with it.

Criminals commit crime of their own free will, no one forces their hand. To say that their environment forces them is just making an excuse.

[alturic]

Of course he was found guilty, he had no one to help defend himself and he confessed because he don't know what's going on.

It doesn't mean he is guilty though, he might be, he might not, the only evidence they got was someone saying he shot him..

Do people really think that in the "real world" people confess to doing things they didn't do because they don't "understand" what's going on? So someone with an extremely low IQ is going to say "herp derp yea I killed this person" because they didn't "understand" the question? I mean seriously?

[shimerra]

I don't know why they do, I never claimed that I had a reason. I merely said they commit more crimes, and are incarcerated more per capita.

Saying their environment "makes" them commit crimes is an excuse. Not every black person living in poverty is a criminal.

Of course not, but completely ignoring the environment a person is raised/brought up in is idiotic. It's quite well documented that if you're brought up in a physically abusive household you're more likely, keyword there read it please, to be abusive yourself. The same goes for a lot of things like sexual abuse and criminality, people who are raised in environments were those behaviors are allowed or pervasive are far more likely to allow or commits them as well. The environment doesn't make them a criminal, or abusive, or w/e but it can certainly encourage the behavior or even punish you for not participating and if you don't believe that I invite you to MLK and D street in Las Vegas to change your mind. It doesn't excuse the action of the individual but it is extremely important to consider when we want to address how to reduce crime rates, drug usage, and gang related activities.

Ignoring environmental factors and labeling it as an "excuse" is just as bad as using it to excuse every action. Continue to ignore environmental factors at your own peril while crime continues to fester.

[matters]

I have no problem whatsoever with his execution.

He had enough mental faculties to team up with another person, make plans about the murder of a police informant and take numerous steps to cover his tracks. Hardly the actions of a dribbling retard.

He deserved to die and I am pleased he is no longer on this earth.

I also find it terribly cliché how all these death row convicts "find Jesus" at the end. Should have adopted a more Christian attitude before you went out murdering shouldn't you matey.

I'll see him in hell.

You hit the nail right on the head my friend, couldn't have said it better myself.

[Deleted]

Do people really think that in the "real world" people confess to doing things they didn't do because they don't "understand" what's going on? So someone with an extremely low IQ is going to say "herp derp yea I killed this person" because they didn't "understand" the question? I mean seriously?

Easily, he was mentally retarded afterall? He could easily had been manipulated into saying things that aren't true.

[Wells]

You can keep trying to shape the excuse that the environment forces them to commit crimes, but I'm not going to ever agree with it.

Criminals commit crime of their own free will, no one forces their hand. To say that their environment forces them is just making an excuse.

Its a pretty simply question, not sure why you dodged it.

Does our environment shape us? Is it part of what makes us who we are?

Or are we entirely of our own design?

Which one?

[alturic]

Easily, he was mentally retarded afterall? He could easily had been manipulated into saying things that aren't true.

So let me ask you this, the jury spent roughly 5 minutes "deciding" his fate? They went into the jury room knowing he confessed and said "yep, the prosecuter is right, he's guilty, fry him"?

I really hope I never come face to face with a jury if that's the case then. I surely hope they looked at the evidence and then decided if he did it or not?

I seriously still doubt someone is going to SAY he committed a crime he didn't because he's retarded or doesn't understand what the police are asking him. While I don't disagree about it happening, I really doubt it's a "significant" number of police "beating" people to admit to crimes they didn't commit to where it happens anytime frequently.

I have no clue how "criminal" court proceedings go, but I would surely hope they don't go into the court-room and say "he said he was guilty, here's his confession, what's his sentence" and then "death it is".

[Perfectdark]

so they redefined "retardation" to make themselves feel more intelligent.

thats the part that sickens me

[alturic]

Its a pretty simply question, not sure why you dodged it.

Does our environment shape us? Is it part of what makes us who we are?

Or are we entirely of our own design?

Which one?

Do you realize what you are saying? People who grow up in poverty are going to commit crimes (steal) for the rest of their lives. People who grow up in an abusive situation are going to beat people the rest of their lives. People who grow up living like royalty are going to be rich forever. Sadly, it doesn't work that way. While I'm not saying it doesn't "happen" I sincerely doubt the "groups" that are more likely to commit X crime over X group is somehow based on the fact they "grew up" a certain way.