The Teachings of Xuen: A Windwalker PvE Guide

[Deleted]

We’re definitely getting very, very different results from you guys in our own testing. For clarity, I’m not just talking about simulations – we’re getting much higher performance, in tier 16 gear, in actual playtesting on the 5.4 PTR client. We’ve even gone so far as to make duplicates of several of your characters just to be certain we’re testing under the same exact conditions.

This leads us to believe one of two things:

There’s some sort of bug we haven’t caught yet that’s causing a massive DPS increase somewhere unexpected (which is possible, and we’re investigating, but haven’t found anything to suggest that’s the case), or
We’re doing something that the community isn’t, which could possibly be due to inaccurate simulations (which in turn lead to incomplete testing of alternative builds or rotations)

One trend in particular that we’ve noticed is that PTR Windwalkers are placing far more emphasis on Haste than we are. There’s a few minor rotational and talent differences as well when we compare our parses to yours (most of which come from the lower haste), but the biggest difference by far seems to be in how we’re prioritizing secondary stats.

Again, these are results we’re able to replicate in the same test environment you guys have, using the same gear, with the same buffs/debuffs and so forth.

so what are they saying were not good enof? :P

[Drknife]

What I want to know is.. What the hell is the "optimal" rotation Lore keeps hinting at but not clarifying or revealing? Can thousands of WW be that dense and be doing the wrong rotation? Blizz seems to think that we haven't figured the best way yet.

[Awarelol]

You bring up a good point. Claims of competitiveness can be made from sources that aren't the most sound. However, plenty of 13/13 Windwalkers say the class is competitive, if not ahead. So, objectively, you're right that my point wasn't completely true. Contextually, though, it certainly is.

Two things:
First: Plenty of 13/13 WWs? There are very few 13/13 WWs, and while some of them might feel OP at the moment, 5.4 breaks their trinket and primary scaling advantage, and buries them deep in the middle of the pack as far as single target DPS goes.

Second: wtf are you even talking about? Your point can't be both true and false.

[Alhoon]

Can thousands of WW be that dense and be doing the wrong rotation? Blizz seems to think that we haven't figured the best way yet.

But how many of those thousands are actually into theorycrafting, number crunching and trying to figure out the best rotation? I'd reckon that's less than 1%, rest just look it up from somewhere. Whether that is Noxxic, the guide in these forums etc., almost all of these are based on Simcraft calculations. All it takes is an error in Simcraft to skew things up.

I don't doubt a second that there could be something we're all doing wrong. The only thing I find extremely hard to believe is the supposed magnitude of error. If the difference really is "very, very large" like Lore said, then you'd think someone had figured out the error(s) in Simcraft, by trial and error if nothing else.

[TheWindWalker]

If the difference really is "very, very large" like Lore said, then you'd think someone had figured out the error(s) in Simcraft, by trial and error if nothing else.

And I'd would have hoped the Devs would have given out at least a vague hint at what skills should take priority if they see us doing it wrong. The only thing I've been able to do in the PTR to raise my DPS to even close to live (with only 502 ilvl but better enchants on the PTR) is to use my Tigereye Brew about about every 25 seconds using FoF as a sort of timer and consequently lining it up with it. Causes my FoF to be far higher on my DPS meters but otherwise nowhere near as good. Which is friggin strange considering that at my ilvl on live I'm going from ~35% TeB to 60% and more frequently with my best build which heavily emphasizes the new mastery.

[Saltycracker]

When you say thousands, I bet the number is closer to 20. As far as I know there are like 5 or so people that post at EJ, and about a couple more that post here, and I'd guess 10 or so that do research on their own and don't interact with the community.

Blizzard makes games. Games are meant to challenge your brain. Even the dungeon journal just lists the boss abilities, like your spellbook. It's up to you how to approach it. Lots of people have different ways of doing a fight, some are how blizzard intended, but a lot of the time not. A lot of boss fights this expansion got bypassed due to players being smarter than the game (Will of the Emperor, Ra-Den, Primordius), and the same goes for class mechanics.

I don't think Blizzard is failing at communicating their intended playstyle the community, people are going to play how they want to no matter what, but players are always going to be looking for an additional edge (at least I hope) and eventually find blizzard's intended playstyle or even one that they didnt intend, but does much better.

[Emophia]

So in 5.4 will RoO still be good for us? Or will it be a second tier trinket?

[Hinalover]

What I want to know is.. What the hell is the "optimal" rotation Lore keeps hinting at but not clarifying or revealing? Can thousands of WW be that dense and be doing the wrong rotation? Blizz seems to think that we haven't figured the best way yet.

From the sounds of the testing, we are back to our old 5.0 rotation with Low Haste (~5k), FoF on CD (or at least as close to it as possible), and Mastery about even with Crit, if not higher in terms of valuing [though mastery's value may not be that high until late T15, early T16; have to do some testing on that].

- - - Updated - - -

So in 5.4 will RoO still be good for us? Or will it be a second tier trinket?

Second Tier. If you can get Rentaki and/or Bad Juju, you should be fine. If you can only get one or the other, get the Valor Trinket as your second trinket going into T16. Don't get me wrong RoRO is still a half-way decent trinket, just not as potent as it is in 5.3.

[Emophia]

Cheers thanks.

[Deleted]

NIce guide helped me alot

[Schaden]

From the sounds of the testing, we are back to our old 5.0 rotation with Low Haste (~5k), FoF on CD (or at least as close to it as possible), and Mastery about even with Crit, if not higher in terms of valuing [though mastery's value may not be that high until late T15, early T16; have to do some testing on that].

My question to that is: will that be optimal come Tuesday? Will we want to keep higher levels of haste until we get the CDR trinket?

(Oh man, I really am not looking forward to FoF being in my rotation again. B|)

Also, you might want to go and correct this post because they sure are advocating for a high haste/mastery build, and there's gonna be a lot of people leaving that thread really confused. The lack of consistent information about stats and gemming in 5.4 has been mind-boggling.

==

That is the point: "Plenty of 13/13 Windwalkers say [...]." Many people aren't at 13/13. In fact, a minority of the raiding population is. That does in no way diminish what they say, but their experiences can very much differ to what the average raider experiences.

And there, we differ - in the interpretation of the differences of the overall data / experiences compared to what many top WWs say.
Your theory (correct me if I'm wrong here, please) is, that many WWs are badly informed, also through many people spreading misinformation, and thus the average WW does fewer dps than an average WL (just one of the strong classes taken here as an example).
My theory is that it's mostly a scaling / RoRo issue. As an example: While the Warlock also has a good scaling and especially demo skyrockets with the castertrinket from Lei Shen, it isn't as extreme as the differences for a WW. And before you've got the Lei Shen trinket, no good WL would advise you to play demo, except on burst aoe fights.

Both interpretations lead to a very different outcome when it comes to class balancing.
[e] Though I have to say, the logical outcome of yours (something along the lines of "We have to get better, we have to be better informed") is preferrable than that of mine ("Blizz will fix it" - which actually it does in 5.4).

Hey, 13/13 Windwalker here.

Pure anecdote here, but a lot of my low numbers are a result of my raid and role leads making me do bitch work, to put it bluntly. Kiting bats, running out to kill Anima Orbs, taunting Lei Shen around platforms, nest groups on Ji-kun, etc etc. I get put there because, even though they understand that I can do amazing deeps, its all RNG. If the procs arent forthcoming or are badly timed, then I'm SoL. They also know WHY I do poor damage off the pull compared to the rest of the raid and WHY I get the least benefit from bloodlusting at the start, they still make me do all these tasks because...well, if you have the choice between the Enhancement Shaman who consistently bursts for 700-900k dps on the pull with bloodlust and does good damage through the fight versus the Windwalker that needs at least 45 seconds to start doing decent damage and MAY do great dps if trinkets proc very well, which class would you put on the shit jobs?

Competitiveness in dps requires that a Windwalker's raid be willing to accommodate our slow ramp up times, or that we just get damn lucky. Being hogtied to a capricious ass trinket hurts us just as much as it can make us gods.

[Hinalover]

My question to that is: will that be optimal come Tuesday? Will we want to keep higher levels of haste until we get the CDR trinket?

(Oh man, I really am not looking forward to FoF being in my rotation again. B|)

Also, you might want to go and correct this post because they sure are advocating for a high haste/mastery build, and there's gonna be a lot of people leaving that thread really confused. The lack of consistent information about stats and gemming in 5.4 has been mind-boggling.

I may go with a 6000 or so haste rating come Tuesday. Going to spend this weekend with a fresh (up-to-date; since I gained at least 1 item this week's clear [finishing tonight so don't know if I'll get a chest from H Lei Shen or Ra den]) character transfer to nail down exact stats for Tuesday. But yea I was using the CDR trinket before; which helps lower the haste rating needed.

[Mormolyce]

What I want to know is.. What the hell is the "optimal" rotation Lore keeps hinting at but not clarifying or revealing? Can thousands of WW be that dense and be doing the wrong rotation? Blizz seems to think that we haven't figured the best way yet.

You have to get a double flawless victory against them and during the fatality stage, uppercut them while the moon is behind a cloud.

[Brucemighty]

Are my gems and enchants wrong? I got trolled at official forum for my current stat. Name calling and insulting.. no wonder people prefer mmochampion to official forum.
Are those people saying this guide is wrong?

You can check my monk on wow armory. I am currently not allowed to post link(stupid restriction)
Type Brucemighty. I would appreciate anyone who gives feedback.

[Hinalover]

Are my gems and enchants wrong? I got trolled at official forum for my current stat. Name calling and insulting.. no wonder people prefer mmochampion to official forum.
Are those people saying this guide is wrong?

You can check my monk on wow armory. I am currently not allowed to post link(stupid restriction)
Type Brucemighty. I would appreciate anyone who gives feedback.

No Crit maybe a bit low but otherwise looks reasonable. I would personally switch some mastery stats into crit such as your sign ring, boots, and legs but otherwise seems decent going into Tuesday. If you feel more confortable with a higher haste then go with it. Mid-mastery isn't that bad next patch and having 7k mastery should provide a lot of chi generation.

[FluFF]

Didn't want to litter the forum with a new thread for this question, but I need help with a macro

I seen a WW guide video and the guy had a macro where he would do RSK, and then the same keybind changed to Touch of death until RSK had 2 seconds left on it's CD and then the keybind changed back to RSK.

So he could use touch of death ( if applicable ) while RSK was on CD, all using 1 keybind.
Anyone got an idea how this macro works ? i'm stuck on the bit where it would change back to RSK with 2 seconds left on RSK cd.

Thanks

[Promdates]

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6 Rising Sun Kick, Touch of Death

Something like that probably.

[FluFF]

#showtooltip
/castsequence reset=6 Rising Sun Kick, Touch of Death

Something like that probably.

Tried it, after using RSK it just goes to a ''?'' keybind like a no #showtooltip macro does, and it gives no mention about touch of death nor does it change to the touch of death spell icon when RSK is used nor a cd timer on the keybind.

Edit : got it straight from the source, thx for the help though

[TheWindWalker]

FluFF, it may well be a formatting issue or a typo. Unless I"m mistaken, it can even be case sensitive. Still, it's an odd macro to use and it may be tough to make it work regardless.

[Callimonk]

Closing this thread for archival purposes. A new thread is being created for the Windwalker PvE guide.

edit: Bottled Fury: A Windwalker PvE Guide is now available.