[5.4] Affliction Warlock and Encounter Specific Guides

[Moruff]

That's roughly how I calculated mine. You're getting to a different conclusion than I am though - SimC in my gear says in 7.5 minute Patchwerk the difference between AD and KJC is 4.3 million damage, or 9.3k DPS. I said that being able to cast MG on the move on an 6:14 IJ fight where I cast 48 seconds worth of Fel Flame would've been roughly 3.7m damage in a calculation that's generous to the KJC argument. If I multiply out the 9.3k number I get almost 3.5m damage. Do you think KJC is better in that situation? There are simplifications everywhere in the calculations but really, I'm not sure.

I will say that I think if I played better my FF usage would go down. This is what I meant by my initial statement that AD just has more outplay potential.

Although based on our faulty theorycrafting, KJC might seem to be yielding slightly more dmg, I am unconvinced in practice it will give more. AD gives more chance to take advantage of better times to use DS as well as an extra one overall. Plus if you have AD, you may be more inclined to min/max your positioning and movement better which can get sloppy with KJC.

[Bonkura]

On Iron Juggernaut I would have had rank 1 in WoL if we had logs and I played it with AD. KjC might be Quality of Life improvement in most bosses, but I'm pretty sure it's not DPS upgrade on many. Epeen Damage meter pic from our Jugger kill, bottom right is skada mouseover info!

Who cares about logs if we don't look at the relevant parts (such as Xyronic's high damage taken)? If you stand still and ignore mechanics you are obviously gonna get higher numbers using AD.

[Werst]

I still am kind of the mindset that KJC is better for consistent performance, especially while learning a fight. AD is going to be the choice when someone wants to parse and might have others doing some mechanics or get lucky not having to run as much (ie no "run now" hazard during darksoul).

[Xyronic]

Not exactly sure why you think the high damage is an issue - most damage in that fight is unavoidable/RNG (if you'll notice, both Juggz and I got the knockup 7 times that attempt) and in our strategy warlocks are supposed to be soaking a lot of the time. So yes, we take a lot of damage, but we're supposed to.

Also yes, this was before the 15% agony nerf. Someone asked for a log with AD, so i posted one.

[Deleted]

Who cares about logs if we don't look at the relevant parts (such as Xyronic's high damage taken)? If you stand still and ignore mechanics you are obviously gonna get higher numbers using AD.

Sure, but like I have stated before that people overestimate how much channeling MG is worth compared to casting Fel Flame. On Iron Juggernaut you have to dodge Mortal Cannon which takes you few globals and Borer Drill targets farest players(might be wrong, but this is what I heard because few players kept taking damage from it every time because they were farest). Biggest downtime is when you get laser and have to move for that duration.

For Malkorok you can see those bubbles spawning under you like for 5 seconds before they spawn and you can choose within that time when you move. In 25man there are lot of people and you only soak pool if its in your zone which takes few globals to move there. Biggest downtime is when you have to dodge breath and run to opposite side of the room.

And like I stated before, not channeling MG isn't big of a deal if there isn't haunt on your target and you don't have any proced dots. AD's worth is somewhat tied to RNG.

[FurtyIRL]

Maybe it's just me, but I have not once felt like I needed KJC on Iron Juggernaut. I cast like 2-3 Fel Flames tops on that fight, and it's super easy to get 52-57% MG uptime. Malkorok less so, but I would still lean towards AD, although I don't raid 10 man so I don't know how that may affect it.

Basically any other fight I can be using Soul Swap during movement anyway so who cares? Sims etc might show it being a 7-9k dps gain, but I don't feel that adequately models it with optimal play. The Sim will use it as soon as it gets a 6+ stack of Wush or BB or if it gets any other trinket proc. In reality, getting 30% spell haste on a 10 stack Black Blood + KTT proc is very noticeable.

10 man there isn't really any more movement. If you ran 3 melee it could be rough but otherwise I hardly felt myself having to move other than to juke an orb.

Who cares about logs if we don't look at the relevant parts (such as Xyronic's high damage taken)? If you stand still and ignore mechanics you are obviously gonna get higher numbers using AD.

It doesn't matter how much damage you take if you don't die. You ask for logs, people provide you with them, you say logs don't model it properly. You like KJC, that's fine, but it's not a dps gain except for a very select few fights (namely Garrosh).

[Chrispotter]

relevant from Sparkuggz's site. http://sparkuggz.com/fixed-bug-in-si...e-target-spec/
The URL explains it all :P

[EvreliaGaming]

relevant from Sparkuggz's site. http://sparkuggz.com/fixed-bug-in-si...e-target-spec/
The URL explains it all :P

And yet I still don't see Destro beating Aff single target on any real parse, and if anything, the gap should be even bigger pre-bis. The only single target fights are Malk and IJ, arguably Thok (lol no) and since those are so short (as the post says) it still wins. Doesn't really change anything practically. Affli's burst and execute are so strong that it's hard to beat.

[Rustjive]

I would think that that bug is offset by the fact that the 2pc is bugged in our favor, no?

[OokingDooker]

And yet I still don't see Destro beating Aff single target on any real parse, and if anything, the gap should be even bigger pre-bis. The only single target fights are Malk and IJ, arguably Thok (lol no) and since those are so short (as the post says) it still wins. Doesn't really change anything practically. Affli's burst and execute are so strong that it's hard to beat.

I agree, I don't see destro beating affliction on any real single target fight. Like I said before, any real raid involves movement to avoid avoidable damage from mechanics. If you're moving you cannot cast chaos bolt. If you get a strong trinket buff during the time that you need to move, you can only spam incinerate and will miss the opportunity to cast a massively buffed chaos bolt (E.g, BBoY proc). Considering how much of your damage is coming from chao bolts, affliction will likely out perform destro in most cases.

[Subetei]

And yet I still don't see Destro beating Aff single target on any real parse, and if anything, the gap should be even bigger pre-bis. The only single target fights are Malk and IJ, arguably Thok (lol no) and since those are so short (as the post says) it still wins. Doesn't really change anything practically. Affli's burst and execute are so strong that it's hard to beat.

um i simmed my character with both specs and got... maybe you see it that way because you have BBOY and are farming everything with shorter and shorter fights. This was not reforged for destruction single target.

554 ilvl with not BBOY 7.5min:
AFF 222521
Des 255137

[Werst]

I think both the cheese potential and the truly elite cap (10x stack refreshing, ss'ing around, etc) on aff is higher so based on how simcraft interprets (or a normal player plays) that aff probably is modeled around the norm not the cap. That is more the language of simC... As was pointed out bosses love to crap on parses so when the double proc happens and your darksoul is up you will have to run for your life....aff can still function better during such a tragedy compared to destro. I think destro is more readily modeled and is probably closer to accurate. Demo's APL probably also could use a tweak (Zinn you save those changes lol?).

To compare I'm running both with KJC as its the most likely choice at least for progression. I'm 571 with a norm 2/2 BB and heroic KTT using 4pc (destro)...I'm simming aff at about 337K with a max of 340K if I go almost all haste gems to hit the 13737 mark or even full haste. Comparatively destro (even with the aff reforge) sits at about 355K breaking 360K with a mastery > haste = crit setup (or mast > crit > haste...they are less than 1K apart)

I used to feel like aff's execute was really good but since 5.4 I'm pretty sure spamming haunt, sb:ss buffed dots, and using drainsoul as a shard generator is stronger than actually laying into DS. Its also not mobile while destro's is useable amidst anarchy...though theoretically comparatively weaker than aff's execute when unmolested. (dpet sburn vs cbolt...) If someone wants to be a math ninja and math out haunt spam vs DS use I'd be curious but my gut says haunt is stronger. In terms of execute I'm thinking demo is the strongest out there....soulfire spam = 20% damage buff full time plus the FIFO DF use.

[Subetei]

To compare I'm running both with KJC as its the most likely choice at least for progression. I'm 571 with a norm 2/2 BB and heroic KTT using 4pc (destro)...I'm simming aff at about 337K with a max of 340K if I go almost all haste gems to hit the 13737 mark or even full haste. Comparatively destro (even with the aff reforge) sits at about 355K breaking 360K with a mastery > haste = crit setup (or mast > crit > haste...they are less than 1K apart)

you used BBOY for both? that is way better trinket for affliction than destruction no? yeah it was approx 10k better for affliction if you subtract no trinket sim. BIS destruction would have immerseus trinket.

[Gorthan]

And yet I still don't see Destro beating Aff single target on any real parse, and if anything, the gap should be even bigger pre-bis. The only single target fights are Malk and IJ, arguably Thok (lol no) and since those are so short (as the post says) it still wins. Doesn't really change anything practically. Affli's burst and execute are so strong that it's hard to beat.

That's because you have 569ilvl and an hc wf trinket.

[ol_baid]

2 pc (Head, Hands) + hc 566 offpieces (protectors chest, juggernaut legs, protectors shoulders) vs 4pc (protectors shoulders) - how strong is 4 pc bonus/how much dps do you gain when going 2pc+off pieces?

[Destroyed]

2 pc (Head, Hands) + hc 566 offpieces (protectors chest, juggernaut legs, protectors shoulders) vs 4pc (protectors shoulders) - how strong is 4 pc bonus/how much dps do you gain when going 2pc+off pieces?

thoks chest is better.

and the offpieces will be better then 4 set when you can replace at least 2 pieces with heroic warforged

[Subetei]

Hopefully this is sarcasm 40k difference there:

http://www.simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T15H.html

maybe i should reroll disc priest

http://www.simulationcraft.org/540/Raid_T14H.html

[Kael]

Hopefully this is sarcasm 40k difference there:

Not sarcasm, but it *is* for the T15H (T14 for the second set?) gear settings, which are pretty useless now, unless you're like, running ToT H competitively in ToT gear. That would be weird.

a T16 breakdown would look a bit more normal.

...unless you meant hopefully people will read sarcasm in your post, in which case this was a useless response from a misunderstanding. Yeah.

Edit: not to derail by responding to your next post - this is not about pre-T15H or mid-T15H gear. That's just a BiS T15H comparison, using the engine as written (variable for different classes). If you're going to switch characters based on how they perform in BiS T15H, unless you're running BiS T15H for an extended time, you're doing it wrong. If you are running T15H, go feral. RoR unchanged + Rip buff.

Also yes, destruction is better at lower gear levels, and has been buffed at the same time affliction and demo were nerfed. It is far superior at what-are-now lower gear levels, compared to aff and demo.

[EvreliaGaming]

That's because you have 569ilvl and an hc wf trinket.

That sim specifically refers to tier 16 BiS, so that's irrelevant.

um i simmed my character with both specs and got...

And yet I still don't see Destro beating Aff single target on any real parse

- - - Updated - - -

I would think that that bug is offset by the fact that the 2pc is bugged in our favor, no?

Are you referring to empowered grasp pushing MG to 45%? That's in Simc afaik.

[FurtyIRL]

Are you referring to empowered grasp pushing MG to 45%? That's in Simc afaik.

Yup

10char