WoW from a Vanilla player's perspective.

[knumskul]

Want to know what Vanilla WoW felt like? Level archaeology to 525. It felt like that most of the time.

You usually were just grinding out rep for some faction or doing the same 10/15 man instance for a single piece of gear over and over and over and over...

Pfft. Levelling arch to 525 is NOTHING compared to Vanilla. Maybe its comparable to hitting 60. But its a whole different level of mindless griding for the gearing, attunments and gold farming for gear/mats etc.

How can you say it's not dumbed down when they removed spell ranks; simplified all healers to have standard, flash, and greater; are going to restrict spells to certain specs; and the new talent trees only have 3 choices per tier?

Current WoW is dumbed down compared to Vanilla?
Every class only spammed 1 spell. There was no such thing as rotations for any of the roles. There was ONE tanking class and ONE viable healing class. Druids were no where near priests in terms of healing. Paladins were alliance only buff bots. Shammies were horde only and their totems were restricted to party only and 10 yards. I literally slept through my raids spamming 1 button on my mage to epics due to the timezone differences and no designated servers, eg. Oceanic.

Spells weren't resticted to certain specs in Vanilla you say? That's because there were hardly any spells back then to restrict. IIRC, locks spammed Corruption and Shadowbolt. What was there to restrict? Hunters had serpent sting and Tranq shot, which was learnt through a drop. Not to mention oom casters had to resort to WAND DPS. Speaking of which, thats how you levelled a priest, wand your way to 60.

Need I go on about the "merits" of Vanilla?

[pimpeddakota]

content was never harder then it currently is, and the game has not been as dumbed down as you lead yourself on to believe.

Is that why back in Vanilla there was 5 man content that could be raided and was very often you took 10 players in to get through the content? Oh yea content wasn't harder right... just 1 proof that your post is invalid. I could go on but there is no reason too.

[Sierra85]

its not that bad.

the game is just more accessible and less grindy. it's a good thing, you just have to evolve with the game.

my 2c

[pimpeddakota]

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy WOW. It's the best time killer I've found that saves me tons of money. I'll probably play it as long as new content is coming out. I don't mind the changes just don't say it hasn't changed.

[Ruffles]

It took 3 months for Kel'Thuzad to be downed in Vanilla whereas it took a little over a month for heroic Madness to go down.

That doesn't mean anything. People didn't know how to play the game + raids required a lot of farming (resistance) gear / elixirs / attunements and that's why it took so long, not because the boss was "hard". Today, a lot of people play the game for years now and they understand the game + a lot more info is available now, those are few of the reasons why the bosses die fast these days.

Remember, if something is time consuming, that doesn't mean it's difficult.

[Zenko]

Day 1 Classic WoW raider here. Progressed up to C'thun in AQ40 when it was endgame and was considered 'unkillable'. Got some boss kills in Naxx on the PTR. Quit raiding around when Naxx came out due to burn out. I remember trolling anyone who hadn't at least killed Nef by then, let alone Rag. I cant believe this OP thinks his Rag kill is relevant.

Modern WoW is a game of wikis, guides, and addons. The content is tuned as if you have all the info you need before stepping into an encounter. The server community is lackluster because the gameplay steers you into a guild or cross-server content. Threat management is dead. Playing without addons is doable but will make you unattractive to the community.

Classic WoW was a game of trial and error. Most of the content was over-tuned with rage timers that were unbeatable or mechanics that were so randomly deadly. The community was much tighter but was generally the same atmosphere. The game had tons of bugs and tons of server lag. 99% of current addons did not exist yet. Damage meters were barebones and so were the threat meters. The only raiding addons until Naxx/TBC were dmg meters, threat meters, and basic raid frames for healers. Managing threat was a raid effort.


I had the best of times in classic, but I'll admit that it was also the worst of times.

[Santoryu]

In vanilla there was a lot more prestige awarded for serious gaming.

They did not nerf tiers by 30% to accommodate this insane notion that everyone should kill every boss even if they're not good enough.

The community hasn't been the same since the dungeon finder was introduced. People don't venture out of the capital cities any more, you can't build up your reputation as a good tank, healer or dps. Not to mention the fact people hardly talk to each other in LFG groups. It's bordering to a single player experience with 4 other npcs with you. It's terrible.

[Salech]

I see a lot of people complaining about how bad the community is now in WoW and how the good old days are gone forever. It really gets at me to see this. Let me start off by explaining a little bit about my gaming history in WoW so you can understand I have a good grasp on this. I've been playing a rogue for 8 years, never straying from the class. On top of that I have all 8 of those years on the same server. My character has 720 days played. I've been active through every expansion and have only taken very few breaks. With this I can assure you all the game has always been the same, and so has the community.

People have always been assholes in /2, content was never harder then it currently is, and the game has not been as dumbed down as you lead yourself on to believe. I'm probably writing this up right now due to the Old WoW vs. New WoW argument going on in /2 by people who have no idea what the game was even like back then. Vanilla was a fresh MMO experience that I played and raided as a young teen, and so I have memories of it in the mindset of a mere child. At that age your way of thinking is much different then it is now as I play the game in my twenties. The fond memories I have have a completely different feel then the new ones I have created in Cata, but that is not because the game has changed, only my mind and way of thinking has. As a teenager I took pride and joy acting and thinking like a child, participating in trolling and camping people who couldn't defend themselves on my rogue. I loved playing for hours and hours and participated in MUCH forum drama because that is what teenagers do.

People nowadays blame the game for their own growth and changes in outlook towards the game. I still remember killing illidan and waiting MONTHS for new content, that is not something new in any sense. Yet people complain about content release dates and lack thereof all the time. The worst is players thinking the community is so much worst off then it was. The truth is it's exactly the same as it has always been, the only thing different is your view on the way people are and how you react to it. Truth be told I have always loved WoW, I still have people asking me where I got this and that mount/title and asking me for help with "insert random old world thing". I think the older generation of players (say those who started in Vanilla or BC) are not letting themselves understand that although the game HAS evolved and been updated to reflect the ease of access market it is still nearly no different then it was before. The bickering of these players allows other immature players who are newer to the game jump on the bandwagon and promote an idea that is falsified from the beginning. It is not my intention to say Wrath or Cata starting players aren't allowed to have an opinion, but only to make notion that they often times over extend themselves and use the arguments of older players who haven't gotten a grip on their own new perspective in the game. It's funny to see most of these complaining players continue to re-sub though.

These are just my thoughts on why it appears there is so much QQ (that has always been there anyways lol) still going on about how good the game use to be, and how much it isn't now. Thoughts?

Well, my only annoyance is they've ruined the community or if you will, server feeling, back then you were proud to be on a server, and you made a lot of friends to play with, because you had to act nice, now it's just "kick the "class" he does less than 11k DPS in a dungeon" or when i say hi in a dungeon, 0 answers through the entire thing, people has gotten way to entitled, and THAT is why i don't like the "new WoW".

[Gratlim]

Been there since last patch of Vanilla. As far as I am concerned, I trully think things got worse:
- Video game "fast food" generation (2005+, teens in WoW) and trolls.
- Achievement: it became the new end-game (not a bad thing) but it's used as a way of discrimination IG
- GS score, iLvl: another they to desciminate in game.
- Cross server everything: taking away any feel of responsability in case of bad behaviour.

If you ask me I prefer the old model but I still love the game

[Malusrage]

What Graitlim said basically...

The community....or lack thereof is killing this game in and of itself before you even get to talking about the actual game. Once upon a time people used to be tight, close knit groups, that it'd be...."wait til xxxxxx logs on" then we'll run xxxxxxx, or lets get xxxxxx group together for pvp'ing, on the OLD PVP system in which if someone got HWL they actually deserved it as there was only one per server at a time....

Fast forward...

Now it's omg if you don't have 2200 rating or HM madness achieve, you're automatically shit, if you don't have xxxxxx achieve you're automatically shit, I played this game for seven years, know overall more knowledge than half the tard fucks on this forum.....but due to ACHIEVES, you're discriminated against.

It's like the WoW population has taken a step back into the 1960's with race discrimination..."you don't have xxxx, so you must suck....fuckin scrub". Right? The community.....or lacking of one is a huge kill factor for this game. Just log in and wait for someone to ask a question in org general, personally playing on Blackrock with all the dickheads there, they'll either get insulted , told to gtfo BR is full, or spend the next xxx amount of time insulting them. BTW, if you do enjoy this game....at all, don't go to blackrock.....just trust me. Server is a toilet as far as wow is concerned.

Wonder why this game hasn't GAINED subs....it's a steady stream of losing them. Myself included. Bring on GW2.

[Deleted]

Only read op's post, and i can agree to the whole age-deal and what impact your own state in life has on the gaming experience. Although i must say that the game isnt the same, sure some aspects are. But they made the whole leveling deal less interesting (as an example), now its just about getting to the max level as fast as possible, with heirlooms and faceroll questchains in the same zones, and all such stuff. In vanilla the actual journey towards level 60 was an experience in it self, which you could both love and hate. Nowadays its all about playing at the max level, which just turns the game into a major e-peen competition.


Edit: "a" and "an" fail...

[sinisterwyvern]

In vanilla there was a lot more prestige awarded for serious gaming.

They did not nerf tiers by 30% to accommodate this insane notion that everyone should kill every boss even if they're not good enough.

The community hasn't been the same since the dungeon finder was introduced. People don't venture out of the capital cities any more, you can't build up your reputation as a good tank, healer or dps. Not to mention the fact people hardly talk to each other in LFG groups. It's bordering to a single player experience with 4 other npcs with you. It's terrible.

That's a change in the idea of MMO gaming, not "being made easy". WoW's major competitor when it was released was Everquest. The game where you could grind 2 levels out in 24 hours /played. That's when everything was "make the game be a time sink so people play it longer", now it's "you're paying for the game so you get to see everything because your $ is worth the same amount as someone elses $". Considering $15 casual = $15 hardcore, that's a correct assessment. You don't have to be "good enough" to pay $15. If you want heroic raiding to be exclusive than make a model where people killing heroic bosses pay $15 a month, people who are killing normal bosses $14 a month, people doing LFR $13 a month, people doing challenge modes as hardest difficulty $12 a month, everything else $11/mo. I'd imagine as well due to the way MMOs were back in vanilla the game (considering it's size) had a much higher hardcore:casual ratio than it does today. It probably even came out to a number higher than 2 where now it's probably a small decimal. Regardless, the notion that someone is "not good enough" to get the same thing you get for the same amount of money, is just pompous delusions of grandeur.

Your first point about capital cities is something they've recognized and are adding many things in mists to counter act this. Actually even beyond that, Challenge modes aren't LFGable, therefore you CAN make a reputation as a good player as groups of them are made to get challenge modes. Since it won't be based on gear it'll prove player skill, and not just who is carried by their heroic guild. (because obviously everyone in a heroic guild is a perfect player amirite?)

[Ruffles]

What Graitlim said basically...

The community....or lack thereof is killing this game in and of itself before you even get to talking about the actual game. Once upon a time people used to be tight, close knit groups, that it'd be...."wait til xxxxxx logs on" then we'll run xxxxxxx, or lets get xxxxxx group together for pvp'ing, on the OLD PVP system in which if someone got HWL they actually deserved it as there was only one per server at a time....

Fast forward...

Now it's omg if you don't have 2200 rating or HM madness achieve, you're automatically shit, if you don't have xxxxxx achieve you're automatically shit, I played this game for seven years, know overall more knowledge than half the tard fucks on this forum.....but due to ACHIEVES, you're discriminated against.

It's like the WoW population has taken a step back into the 1960's with race discrimination..."you don't have xxxx, so you must suck....fuckin scrub". Right? The community.....or lacking of one is a huge kill factor for this game. Just log in and wait for someone to ask a question in org general, personally playing on Blackrock with all the dickheads there, they'll either get insulted , told to gtfo BR is full, or spend the next xxx amount of time insulting them. BTW, if you do enjoy this game....at all, don't go to blackrock.....just trust me. Server is a toilet as far as wow is concerned.

Wonder why this game hasn't GAINED subs....it's a steady stream of losing them. Myself included. Bring on GW2.

The game didn't change the players, the players changed themselves. Trolling is in fashion now, so some players want to have fun while playing ya know. They don't care about the other guy they talk to. Trolling wasn't invented that much back in 2004-2005. Everywhere I go, I see internet memes and trolling.

[Pancaspe]

I have played since Day One of Vanilla. I ran BD Strat 15 man 77 times on my Druid and the Baron would never drop his pants for me. Lightforge dropped on 17 consecutive runs, it was maddening.

Today's WOW is far, far, superior to any previous version of the game.

[Aquamonkey]

Spell Ranks meant nothing to anyone except a healer, and to a very lesser extent Protection Paladins. Maybe spell-casters before dungeon gear. Regardless, it did dumb down healing but it also made it more accessible from a starting PoV. Proficient healers that mastered the 5SR pretty much were gods amongst men for PvE, never running out of mana and understood fight mechanics. Talent trees were good, and fun while leveling. Not as much at max level, but creating your own builds and wonky hybrids were quite fun (However ineffective they were). You really didn't have much choice in the talent trees anyways, a lot of specs ended up with a BUNCH of free talent points (Until later expansions), or very few if none left over. This could have been fixed and switched some-how, but the new talent trees aren't just dumbed down; they are simpler to understand.

You no longer go 31/9/10, but instead go for each tier tree on your own choice. Sure, it could be better (And I'm sure it will be as the developers think of something), but dumbed down doesn't mean bad. It's just average at the moment, and you no longer go to the forums or a website to look at the optimal build, and branch out from there.

I didn't say it was bad.

How has any of those made the game "easier"?

Spell ranks: Simply train more, no challenge at all.
Cata healing model: As apposed to simply spamming one heal all the time like it used to be?
Spell restriction: If anything, this would make the game harder, not easier.
New talents: As apposed to going to MMO Champ or EJ to get the cookie cutter spec? Still, that adds zero challenge to the game.

You obviously don't know what you are talking about. There's a difference between simpler and easier.

Down ranking was most important for healers, but even as DPS, mages used rank 1 frostbolt for quick snares, rank 1 frost nova for mana conservation because it was just as good as max rank, rank 1 arcane explosion to break stealthers, and rank 1 fireball for a quick dot on rogues.

Now they are making magic school spells spec specific. Can only use frost bolt as frost, fireball as fire, etc.

On Nef 25H, I made custom fire spec with Imp CoC for dominion. On Nef 10H, I made custom frost spec for P1 add control where I could root them indefinitely without having to kite. And in Vanilla, which is what the OP was referring to, there were multiple hybrid specs available.

[Aerai]

Been there since last patch of Vanilla. As far as I am concerned, I trully think things got worse:
- Video game "fast food" generation (2005+, teens in WoW) and trolls.
- Achievement: it became the new end-game (not a bad thing) but it's used as a way of discrimination IG
- GS score, iLvl: another they to desciminate in game.
- Cross server everything: taking away any feel of responsability in case of bad behaviour.

If you ask me I prefer the old model but I still love the game

/thread

Mechanically, the game is better than it has have been. The rest is where things have dropped off. Community doesn't matter anymore, the game has been broken down into a science, etc.

Cross-Server more than anything else is what killed the feeling for me. I miss knowing 75% of the people in every major guild on the server, the suspense of queue'ing into your biggest rival guild's premade where bragging rights were on the table, blacklisting and manners actually somewhat mattered.

*sigh* time to go watch my old Vanilla Rag kill!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZsXs5N0uBDU

FYI, if you watch that video.. watch the huge variety of buttons our fearless leader presses. MAYBE 3.. and he CLICKS ALL OF THEM. Game was harder my ass.

[Charge me Doctor]

I remember good old times of leveling shadow priest. Untill you have Mind Flay, you just: PW:S>Target>Wand>alt+tab. It was fun, but in comprasion to what we have now, it was a disaster. If you would seen Vanilla WoW now, you would lol at this game and return to other games.
I want to point out that the game never was bad, comunity was much better than now.

And yes, if you look at old PvP/PvE movies, game was easy as shit. Because the only thing you needed to do to be successive in PvE - follow a boss guide/do what your RL says. Now you need to actually DO something (due to fight/class mecanics). In PvP you needed a holy paladin and any kind of shaman to assist you to be a warmachine on BGs

[Marxman]

The game itself is better in most areas, but some of the most important areas are worse. PvP is MUCH worse.

More than anything, WoW these days is just missing that "feeling" that's so hard to describe. Vanilla WoW was magical. It was wonderous. It felt huge and engrossing and deep. These days WoW feels shallow and formulaic. All of the systems have been improved, but at the cost of the overall feel of the game I think.

[Santoryu]

That's a change in the idea of MMO gaming, not "being made easy". WoW's major competitor when it was released was Everquest. The game where you could grind 2 levels out in 24 hours /played. That's when everything was "make the game be a time sink so people play it longer", now it's "you're paying for the game so you get to see everything because your $ is worth the same amount as someone elses $". Considering $15 casual = $15 hardcore, that's a correct assessment. You don't have to be "good enough" to pay $15. If you want heroic raiding to be exclusive than make a model where people killing heroic bosses pay $15 a month, people who are killing normal bosses $14 a month, people doing LFR $13 a month, people doing challenge modes as hardest difficulty $12 a month, everything else $11/mo. I'd imagine as well due to the way MMOs were back in vanilla the game (considering it's size) had a much higher hardcore:casual ratio than it does today. It probably even came out to a number higher than 2 where now it's probably a small decimal. Regardless, the notion that someone is "not good enough" to get the same thing you get for the same amount of money, is just pompous delusions of grandeur.

This will always be a shitty argument.

The money you pay monthly is for access to all the game features, not the right to excel at all of them. What you said could be tantamount to saying: "Hey I just enrolled into Oxford's educational programme, but I'm not good enough to finish it, so let me pay half the tuition for half the knowledge."

It doesn't work that way. There is a set amount of knowledge required to be mastered in order to graduate. The same reasoning can be applied to WOW.

The game has an endgame content that is there for people to aspire to clear, not to have it handed to them. This is an MMO for god's sake, it's about progression and improvement of one's skills, it's not about pandering to entitled behaviour.

[BossManRoth]

Playing WoW since Vanilla, Still playing in MoP

Come at me

this

/10 char