Man kills girlfriend after finding out she has HIV

[Darsithis]

Which was horribly and totally wrong. But that still does not justify what he did. There are laws to deal with this. We do not want a society where people are allowed to take the law into their own hands.

I think this is the telling point, especially for those who maintain they'd have done the same. Without those laws, and without people behaving within the laws, what stops someone from murdering you for whatever you might do? Who are you to judge what is worthy of death?

[Kasierith]

The difference is she was with him long enough where it couldn't be viewed as a weak moment, it was just selfishness on her part to do that to him. He probably wasn't the first either. Again, I am not justifying the murder at all... but she was the monster in the situation, and he the victim and if it were the other way around and he was the one knowingly spreading HIV to his gf's i'd think the same thing. You can't just be that selfish to put others in jeopardy like that. If she had told him at the first date or after and he chose to stay, that's on him but for her to hook him in a relationship before springing the unthinkable news is just unimaginable. He acted out of rage and pure emotion, where she cold heartedly only thought of herself and her needs. Let's not be naive enough to think he was the first either.

So just because she had HIV/AIDS and hid the fact from him at first makes her a promiscuous person? I disagree strongly with your baseless assertion. Seeing as she was the one who brought it up, I highly doubt she was purposefully spreading it like you imply she was. You know literally nothing about the situation to assert that she was hooking him into it. But really, why the consistent double standard? She was a horrible person for letting her emotions cloud her judgement and not telling him from the first place. He was a horrible person for outright killing her without even getting himself checked. Both are at fault, albeit for different acts, and both are victims by the same stroke.

[Lenonis]

Again I ask, if this man dies in prison in the next year or few years due to HIV complications.... would it change your opinion of this story?

No.

It's most likely an irrelevant question as prisoners receive healthcare as wards of the state -- so he should be receive treatment, assuming he even contracted the virus.

But even if for some reason he doesn't respond, the condition escalates and he dies, that is a tragic result of having unprotected sex -- and has nothing to do with him murdering someone else.

What if he dies of cancer? Of a heart attack?

Two separate issues at play with your question.

[Purlina]

The story implied she knew before the relationship, if she found out during then it would have likely been mentioned in the article and would change the opinion of many of us.

Serious flaw in your logic...

How would the newspaper know when she found out she had HIV????

The only person who knows that is the murder victim and her doctor.

[justandulas]

I think this is the telling point, especially for those who maintain they'd have done the same. Without those laws, and without people behaving within the laws, what stops someone from murdering you for whatever you might do? Who are you to judge what is worthy of death?

I have said time and time again I don't justify the murder, but I understand how someone could lose control. Let's say a gang banger kills an innocent victim in a drive by shooting and the father takes vigilanty justice and murders him in return, it doesn't make it right but it's the same type of situation where one could at least understand. Hell, prison is full of people will stories about crimes of passion where they snapped in the moment and did something out of character. If you listen to many of the stories from prisoners, you can understand their point of view. It doesn't make it right, but you can at least wrap your mind around it. The same thing applies to this man. He didn't have to kill her, but to hear the story you can wrap your mind around how someone could lose control like that. I won't mourn for a monster like her at all, the children on the other hand... god I really feel for them. Like I said when i started this story, if the children grow up to kill this man in retaliation, you wouldn't agree with it but you could at least understand their thought process.

[Dylamoo]

This is why I said full regimen. I did not say that the full regimen of the large variety of HIV/AIDS medications was financially available to all individuals, and in general life span depends on strand mutations and susceptibility to the medication on part of the virus; but in an ideal setting my numbers are quite valid. You need to understand the meaning of conditional statements. While I recognize that medicine may not always work, I absolutely reject your statement that there is no purpose, and that drugs are nothing but a big business conspiracy, for in many situations these medications are capable of benefiting peoples lives. It is the duty of those working in the health field to do all they can to improve the health and well being of patients. The variety of HIV/AIDS medications is growing, with more and more effective treatment being brought forth for public use. If you do not believe that you can do anything to help others, even if you can only change factors but not ultimately decide the outcome, you should not be in charge of other people's care. And if you tout your nonsense in front of your patients, you should be immediately discharged for highly unethical conduct. While it is of course wrong to promise a cure when it is not certain, it is far more wrong to promise death with no hope even of extending ones life. Remember, if you're a health care professional, your duty is more than just treating the illness.



Ahhh... failure to see the purpose of my statement. If you had simply read what I wrote instead of going off on a tangent, I said that these are not comparable to being stabbed. You want to test this? Look at someone who got stabbed and killed. Then look at someone who is suffering the side effects of HIV/AIDS medications. Tell me who is better off. While you could make the argument that it is better to die now than suffer for a long time, that is overall not the case, and is ultimately not your call. And overall, there is a massive amount of examples out there that, given extreme circumstances, most people will choose life in suffering over death.

So sex is all there is to social life? You made a blank statement about a massive topic, and you expect me to consign myself only to one part of it, regardless of how significant that it is? The fact is there is more to life than sex and relationships, and while having HIV/AIDS can limit one in this regard it does not mean that their life as a whole has come to an end, not until the later states when the immune system has been suppressed. This is especially true now that there are medications that prevent HIV from being spread to the womb during pregnancy. What I found laughable is that you base the entirety of the human experience on sex and relationships. And it is highly ironic that you claim that I have a lack of empathy, giving how uncaring you are about her and the reasons why she had not told him until after the fact. You tout the social stigmas applied during relationships, but then ignore the effects of them on the human mentality. I hope you can see the logical dissonance in these two statements:




Do I agree with her actions and the consequences that resulted from them? No. Do I know that it she is to blame for the situation? Yes. Does that mean I lack the human ability to understand why it was that she hid such a fact? Absolutely not; thus, unlike you, I empathize with her and the situation leading to her decision. I never said that she made a good decision. I only stated that what she did in no way warranted her being killed. But now, people deserve to die based on this? When being jailed could remove them from the population so they cannot spread it further and punish her for her actions? Your nonchalance towards the dignity of human life is startling.


Moral nihilism is the viewpoint that there is no objective measure of morality, which is the underlying influence of ethics. If you say that all ethics is dependent on the individual, and therefore there is no universal application of ethical thought and therefore no point in ethics, than you are a moral nihilist. I don't see how any person with even the slightest degree of ethical knowledge could not see this. As for deontology, no, murder would be unacceptable because it was not a rational action, and he did not respect her free will by removing her capacity to make a decision at all, thus denying her right to be a free moral agent. Utilitarianism would not apply because the consequences of his actions caused significant pain and no pleasure. Social justice would not apply because, well, if you need me to explain that it is in everyone's best interest not to be killed, or that if someone has a small chance of spreading disease to others they should be executed, that would be pretty sad.

As for that, yes, I agree. This makes his actions understandable. But it does in absolutely no way justify his actions.

The drug business is a beneficiary only if it is a beneficiary to the companies. It is a beneficiary to the company if they make money off of it, ask doctor how they feel about the drug market now and he will tell you the same. You can do your own research about the drug market, but as you state you reject the statement so you can choose to live that gullible life style. My duty is undoubtedly to provide the best care possible to my patients and it goes without saying that you can do more for your patients. You have no idea how i interact with my patients, as a professional i act in accordance to the profession, as an individual outside of work inside my institutes walls i act as what i should be an individual outside of work. You have no rights to talk to me about what's supposed to be done and what isn't at the hospital. There are hundreds of unethical decisions being made in a hospital due to monetary reasons, it's funny because we swear and oath to help anyone regardless of position but some of the best hospitals have disclosures saying otherwise. Anyway back to subject all i will tell you is because i do not want to sound like i'm repeating myself do your research on HIV/AIDS medication. They are not at all refined as you make it out to be, stop telling people lies and giving them false senses of security, in the states you can be sued for this.

Tell me who is better off. While you could make the argument that it is better to die now than suffer for a long time, that is overall not the case, and is ultimately not your call

Pointless to bring this up because as stated her murdered someone because he believed at the time he was being murdered at the same time. You make it black and white sounding like he did it just because she had HIV. He did it because he believes she gave him HIV(which is debatable as it's a lower chance from female to male) The point being i stated that he is uneducated and doesn't know better, at the time he went berserk(crazy which is a perfect defense for him) and did something he didn't really think through. This day and age the justice system allows for people like him to get off at a less charge and should probably plead insanity, the fact that he burns the evidence is negligible because he was desperate which is also a symptom of insanity.
Let me bring this to light for you because you obviously only want to highlight what you want to see, i never state that sex is all there is to a social life, i also state things such as procreation(having kids), Dating(meeting a lover), and that some people really do not look at you knowing you have HIV and see you as an equal. This is the real world and not many people are akin to how you see others, many are ignorant, many are arrogant, many are just thick headed, and many simply are skeptical because they don't want to take a risk.

Once again you take things to an extreme end, no i take life and look at it with a lot more respect than you can even imagine. You can't even fathom that sometimes a life isn't worth living and wouldn't empathize with suffering as a reason for a means to an end. Empathy isn't supposed to be for everyone, you don't empathize for murderers and you don't empathize for her because she brought it on herself. Why would you waste your pity on someone who set themselves up for death? that isn't to say she literally set herself up for death but she risked it because she did something reckless I would never empathize for someone who plays russian roulette and yes her actions were basically playing russian roulette with someones life and her own she didn't know the man well as stated she just started to date him. It's like you're saying everyone in the world who gets killed should be empathized for. It's a joke how you can blatantly say i'm cold hearted because you can't seem to think that i have an actual broad spectrum of thought in this subject matter.

There is nothing nihilistic about what i said, those ethics exist within those individuals and in no means do you have the power to take that away from them. The fact of the matter is that whether you want to brand something nihilistic is a means to not trying to empathize nor understand that people have their own values. That to me is more nihilistic than moral nihilism itself. You can't rationalize ethics because everyone has their own values, it's just that in society we want to see it as a certain way and a way that hopefully is universal to everyone(which goes without saying that it's absolutely not). You're trying to rationalize this subject matter is the flaw in your arguments, you keep trying to find moral philosophy in this matter but you'll eventually conclude to one thing, and that the only absolute is that there is no absolute. You can't simply find a philosophy for everything, no one is saying everyone with a disease should be killed off and nobody is saying he didn't murder. I state many times that he murdered someone. In a court he has defenses that are just as viable to get himself a just case of manslaughter and you cannot with in reason deny him of this charge.

Also please note i bolden many parts of my statement because you always seem to miss out on really definitive statements and point out in your argument that i don't see the seemingly obvious statements that go without saying. Also to mention i'm off to work, i have a lot of patients that need me to tell them that their lives are not worth living!(sarcasm)

[Lenonis]

Serious flaw in your logic...

S/he is making all sorts of assumptions about the story that may or may not be true. There are so little facts in the actual article that you basically are left with a story of two people breaking the law. And one took the law into his own hands and will pay the price for that choice.

[Tastyfish]

Death was too short, to little and not enough pain and suffering for doing what she did. I doubt i would felt human after i got ahold of her.

For potentially exposing him to something he had a stupidly low chance of getting if he was not using a condom, that even if he was worried, could of went to the hopital, taken some meds and not of worried?

Logically then you should be getting smokers together and killing them too, since the chance of you getting cancer form 2nd hand smoke has a chance of happening too.

[justandulas]

No.

It's most likely an irrelevant question as prisoners receive healthcare as wards of the state -- so he should be receive treatment, assuming he even contracted the virus.

But even if for some reason he doesn't respond, the condition escalates and he dies, that is a tragic result of having unprotected sex -- and has nothing to do with him murdering someone else.

What if he dies of cancer? Of a heart attack?

Two separate issues at play with your question.

So if he contracted the virus and dies in prison within a short period of time (a year or a handful of years) it wouldn't change your opinion of this story? I didn't ask if he died of cancer or a heart attack as that isn't the issue. If she gave him a deadly and incurable disease and he fell victim to it, his life will be cut short in prison all because she was a selfish and inhuman monster. He reaps what he sows, again i'm not asking he be free'd from prison as he did murder her, but my point is that no human being should ever be put in such a situation/corner like he was in.

[Lenonis]

Logically then you should be getting smokers together and killing them too, since the chance of you getting cancer form 2nd hand smoke has a chance of happening too.

[internettoughguy]Hell yeah! I'm all for that. Let's round em up and make them sorry they were born![/internettoughguy]

[Tastyfish]

[internettoughguy]Hell yeah! I'm all for that. Let's round em up and make them sorry they were born![/internettoughguy]

SHE TOOK A PUFF AND EXHALED IN MY FACE, so I went into the next room and got a fire axe and hacked her up, because 2nd hand smoke gave me cancer. /facepalm

[Lenonis]

So if he contracted the virus and dies in prison within a short period of time (a year or a handful of years) it wouldn't change your opinion of this story?

Why would it? He committed murder. End of story. It wasn't self defense -- it was murder.

If she gave him a deadly and incurable disease and he fell victim to it, his life will be cut short in prison all because she was a selfish and inhuman monster.

which has nothing to do with him killing her

Yes, she did wrong. Yes it was awful. Yes yes yes yes. But we have a legal system for a reason! He had several ways of recourse through the courts and the law, but instead chose to commit another crime out of passion or vengeance or whatever. Did your folks never teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

my point is that no human being should ever be put in such a situation/corner like he was in.

Not sure why you think I'm arguing that. He never should have been put into that situation. But for the millionth time that does not justify murder.

You get my point now?

[Ashnazg]

The good old days weren't good.

I honestly cannot fathom how anyone in their right mind would ever advocate for such. Probably they are not in their right mind...

I can say the same for people who refuse to understand the turmoil of the victim in this scenario.

[Eroginous]

I saw someone stealing. I should kill him so he can't steal again, to provide a public service.

Except that stealing is not the same as killing. Giving someone a deadly virus IS the same as killing. See how that works?

Here, let me give you Ebola and see if you feel the same way.

HIV/AIDS is not an automatic death sentence; it is something often covered by insurance and community resources, and overall is probably less expensive than long term cancer treatment.
And your theory that she was infecting plenty of people beforehand is essentially invalidated by the fact that she was the one who opened the truth up to him. Is it possible? Sure, why not... but it is also unlikely given her actions

This news story originated out of Texas. Here in the US, most people don't have access to health care via insurance, and state medical insurance for welfare recipients only goes so far, and usually only applies to children. Having HIV is a lot like having cancer, where you spend the rest of your life fighting off the effects of the disease through often experimental and potentially lethal treatments. It's not like the Flu where you just go down to your local pharmacy and get a shot once a year. So get your facts straight before you marginalize having HIV.

http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/2...ews-conference

[justandulas]

Why would it? He committed murder. End of story. It wasn't self defense -- it was murder.

If she gave him a deadly and incurable disease and he fell victim to it, his life will be cut short in prison all because she was a selfish and inhuman monster.

which has nothing to do with him killing her

Yes, she did wrong. Yes it was awful. Yes yes yes yes. But we have a legal system for a reason! He had several ways of recourse through the courts and the law, but instead chose to commit another crime out of passion or vengeance or whatever. Did your folks never teach you that two wrongs don't make a right?

Not sure why you think I'm arguing that. He never should have been put into that situation. But for the millionth time that does not justify murder.

You get my point now?[/QUOTE]

Look buddy, I have said time and time again I didn't justify the murder and he deserves to be in jail. I just said I could understand how someone could lose control and snap in such a situation. Most of us would snap in anger or deep sadness in his shoes, it's impossible to judge beforehand. My point was that she wasn't worth mourning and brought her death on herself by bad karma and putting others lives in jeopardy. It doesn't justify the murder and he belongs in prison, that wasn't my point. Her bad karma caught up with her, and he lost control and will spend his life in prison. There is no right with this story as both he and she were in the wrong. The real victims to me are the poor children

[Deleted]

I can say the same for people who refuse to understand the turmoil of the victim in this scenario.

Yeah man, a girl smoked in my face so I grabbed my shotgun and made a pincushion outta her.

Fucking police refuses to acknowledge my inner turmoil.

[Bryntrollian]

What... the fuck...

He had to act to prevent himself from having sex with her again? Why are you even bringing up these alternate scenarios? Yes, you can kill someone in self defense. This situation has nothing to do with self defense.

Prevent her from doing the same thing with other men you silly goose...

[Granyala]

Sure I'd do it differently. See below:

Man sleeps with Girlfriend.

Girlfriend revealed her HIV status to Man after the couple had sex.

Man shrugs it off and makes love to her again.

If I'm infected anyway, I can at least enjoy her company.

[Orukmeta]

I guess you don't know about the stories of straight men killing transsexuals who are male to female... there are quite a few.

It can be mentally damaging and fuck up a lot of people. Sleeping with a transsexual will affect you negatively if they never told you and tell you later, or you find out by some other method. This is very much like that.

This is a pretty fail analogy. Transexuals arent the equivalent of a woman with a life-threatening disease. If a transexual had sex with a dude who was totally oblivious, and they both head home that day with the man none the wiser, he goes home without being infected (Unless the tranny had HIV, but assuming he/she doesnt) If the woman had sex with the guy (on an unlucky streak and ends up getting HIV), hes got a life-long problem.

[justandulas]

Except that stealing is not the same as killing. Giving someone a deadly virus IS the same as killing. See how that works?

Here, let me give you Ebola and see if you feel the same way.



This news story originated out of Texas. Here in the US, most people don't have access to health care via insurance, and state medical insurance for welfare recipients only goes so far, and usually only applies to children. Having HIV is a lot like having cancer, where you spend the rest of your life fighting off the effects of the disease through often experimental and potentially lethal treatments. It's not like the Flu where you just go down to your local pharmacy and get a shot once a year. So get your facts straight before you marginalize having HIV.

http://www.webmd.com/hiv-aids/news/2...ews-conference

Exactly, just because you CAN live a long and fulfilling life with HIV doesn't mean you are guaranteed it. Many, if not most, people who are HIV positive live a shortened life... some VERY short. It's why i asked the question that if this man dies next year in prison due to HIV complications... then what? For those defending her... let's say I have the bubonic plague and go around a local mall sneezing in people's faces KNOWING i had the plague because I selfishly didn't care for others... how is that different then what she was doing?