Man kills girlfriend after finding out she has HIV

[Lenonis]

If he didn't kill her at the time, it wouldn't be a crime of passion.

The article strongly implies the crime happened at the time. If not, the article is terribly misleading.

[Deleted]

Acting on ignorance is not insanity, it's stupidity.

It is not ignorance, it was exactly what people where taught back when aids was a big deal. It's not his fault that they didn't make just as big a deal out of telling people it is no longer as dangerous as it used to be.

[Deleted]

This has to be the most stupid analogy i have ever heard in a case like this... The man was obviously uninformed about the actual risks regarding HIV like so many people have previously been in this very thread. The world was told how deadly HIV was for soo many years, how it was incurable, how people would suffer a horrible painful death within years after they got it, and how easily you would catch it pretty much 100% after first intercourse (this was how the presented it, I very well know it isn't the case at all).

Once the world managed to get HIV spread under control we never heard about it again, and many people still believe to this day, that it is a sure death sentence JUST LIKE THIS GUY DID.

Unless you honestly think smoking have the same effect as many people still believe HIV and aids have please stop comparing the two.

And congrafuckingtulations, you completley missed the context of my analogy (hint: it was not directed at the man the OP describes but a certain attitude so prevailent around these boards that some people seem to think empathy towards the victim justifies any stupid extrajudicial attempts at "justice").

[Granyala]

Sounds like a weird variation on Stockholm Syndrome if anything. Different strokes for different folks I suppose.

Lets be serious for a moment shall we?

-I wouldn't get into bed with a Girl I don't consider marry-able. (you may call me old school)
-It's done. It wasn't a nice act, but it's history now.
-I'm toast anyway. HIV can't be cured.

What's there left to do? Make our remaining days as nice as possible and see to it that the children get a good start into life. It's mere simply logic that follows. Killing her won't cure me.

And yes before you ask: I have a death wish IRL. Maybe that's why I'm thinking this way.

[Jokerfiend]

No honey. If you killed the man it wouldn't have been justified you went overboard and your feelings got in the way and therefore subjectively it was justified, in fact though it was not, not at all. The fact you feel proud for almost killing a man and not for protecting your mother speaks volumes about your personality. You seem to brag about how you hurt the man, which is understandable to the point, but when you say it's just a payment and you're proud of the debt. What does this say about you? You should seek a mental professional.

Wait what? You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions you can't back up. I wasn't protecting my mother? Why do you think I grabbed the bat? 16 years old vs a 30 yrs old man, yeah I was overboard, but given the circumstance... you can't be serious. Yeah, I honestly hoped the fucker would die. Yeah, it's something to be proud of protecting a family member. I'd do it again, for anyone, in my mother's position.

I thought, given the tone and set of post, that protecting my mother was a given. I guess you can't assume that with ignorant and pedantic people assuming to much.

You know the ONLY reason I was charged with ANYTHING? Because my mother was fighting him already. They had a mutual combatant state and I jumped in. Justifiably. I went overboard with the pain. The reason why I went overboard is understandable AND justifiable in most eyes.

Most of the Cops said they would make sure, I walked with the least possible crime and I did. I had backing from most of the officers I had to engage. As a matter of fact, some officers in my town still know me by name.

Sometimes, people deserve it. I still pay my debt and gladly, I might add. Honestly, go fuck yourself.

[Lamoot]

I absolutely, without a doubt, would have killed her too.

[Deleted]

And congrafuckingtulations, you completley missed the context of my analogy (hint: it was not directed at the man the OP describes but a certain attitude so prevailent around these boards that some people seem to think empathy towards the victim justifies any stupid extrajudicial attempts at "justice").

No I perfectly understand what you where trying to say. You think that just because the chances of getting sick from HIV are almost as small as getting sick from second hand smoking, that he was a retard for getting revenge or "justice" as you call it. And since i don't believe the two cases can even be remotely be compared because of the reasons i mentioned i told how it was a failed analogy... Just deal with it

[justandulas]

Wait what? You are making a hell of a lot of assumptions you can't back up. I wasn't protecting my mother? Why do you think I grabbed the bat? 16 years old vs a 30 yrs old man, yeah I was overboard, but given the circumstance... you can't be serious. Yeah, I honestly hoped the fucker would die. Yeah, it's something to be proud of protecting a family member. I'd do it again, for anyone, in my mother's position.

I thought, given the tone and set of post, that protecting my mother was a given. I guess you can't assume that with ignorant and pedantic people assuming to much.

You know the ONLY reason I was charged with ANYTHING? Because my mother was fighting him already. They had a mutual combatant state and I jumped in. Justifiably. I went overboard with the pain. The reason why I went overboard is understandable AND justifiable in most eyes.

Most of the Cops said they would make sure, I walked with the least possible crime and I did. I had backing from most of the officers I had to engage. As a matter of fact, some officers in my town still know me by name.

Sometimes, people deserve it. I still pay my debt and gladly, I might add. Honestly, go fuck yourself.

You're a hero in my book buddy, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

[Tastyfish]

-I'm toast anyway. HIV can't be cured.

Soon.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...s-new-research

[Kasierith]

The drug business is a beneficiary only if it is a beneficiary to the companies. It is a beneficiary to the company if they make money off of it, ask doctor how they feel about the drug market now and he will tell you the same. You can do your own research about the drug market, but as you state you reject the statement so you can choose to live that gullible life style. My duty is undoubtedly to provide the best care possible to my patients and it goes without saying that you can do more for your patients. You have no idea how i interact with my patients, as a professional i act in accordance to the profession, as an individual outside of work inside my institutes walls i act as what i should be an individual outside of work. You have no rights to talk to me about what's supposed to be done and what isn't at the hospital. There are hundreds of unethical decisions being made in a hospital due to monetary reasons, it's funny because we swear and oath to help anyone regardless of position but some of the best hospitals have disclosures saying otherwise. Anyway back to subject all i will tell you is because i do not want to sound like i'm repeating myself do your research on HIV/AIDS medication. They are not at all refined as you make it out to be, stop telling people lies and giving them false senses of security, in the states you can be sued for this.

And the drug companies only make a profit if it works. Do you have any conception whatsoever about the rigorous process of drug experimentation and approval? This isn't alternative medicine; if there is an absolute lack of efficacy, it will not be put out. Therefore, it is in the best interest of drug companies to develop viable medications to address the issue, or they will never get the return from the expensive process of pharmaceutical development. Look at chemotherapy; its effects are absolutely horrendous, but it is used because it works. You accuse me of the one dealing with absolutes, but you seem to be falling into this trap far more fluidly than myself. Medications do not have to have 100% efficacy and be miracle cures to have a substantial effect in improving the condition of human life. If a drug is capable of holding off the proliferation of the virus even for 1 year, or of it is capable of allowing a mother to give birth without the baby being infected, it is worth pursuing.

I am well aware that it is not always possible to do the best out there to help patients in hospitals. I have worked worked in hospital myself; that said, such limitations should not be held to the standard, and if at all possible the well being of the patient should be prioritized before all other things. Restrictions on proper treatment of patients should be due only to lack of resources, not policy. As for me "giving them false senses of security," this is most definitely not the case, and your assumption that this is the only alternative is saddening. There is a third option: present enough facts to the patient so that the patient can make an informed decision based not on your personal opinion, but on their own beliefs. With something like HIV/AIDS medication, you do not tell them there is hope for survival, because there is not in the end, but instead instruct them on the benefits that medication can provide in comparison to the side effects. Ultimately preserving patient dignity in having at least some control over their own fate is something far too often overlooked in modern medicine.

Pointless to bring this up because as stated her murdered someone because he believed at the time he was being murdered at the same time. You make it black and white sounding like he did it just because she had HIV. He did it because he believes she gave him HIV(which is debatable as it's a lower chance from female to male) The point being i stated that he is uneducated and doesn't know better, at the time he went berserk(crazy which is a perfect defense for him) and did something he didn't really think through. This day and age the justice system allows for people like him to get off at a less charge and should probably plead insanity, the fact that he burns the evidence is negligible because he was desperate which is also a symptom of insanity.

I think we both agree that his actions are understandable given his state at the time that he was informed, both emotionally and intellectually. Although, his chances of getting off with a plea for insanity is virtually nonexistent, as he used an item that was not readily available and attempted to conceal evidence afterwards. His lawyer will be far, far better suited arguing for a crime of passion, not insanity.

Let me bring this to light for you because you obviously only want to highlight what you want to see, i never state that sex is all there is to a social life, i also state things such as procreation(having kids), Dating(meeting a lover), and that some people really do not look at you knowing you have HIV and see you as an equal. This is the real world and not many people are akin to how you see others, many are ignorant, many are arrogant, many are just thick headed, and many simply are skeptical because they don't want to take a risk.

We tell them they can live a normal life if they tried hard enough but in reality you are unfortunately screwed from many factors of socializing, Sex, procreation, dating without someone thinking you're a monster...

If you wanted to include more than just those things, than why did you only illustrate those, not once but twice? Yes. I agree that there are plenty of people out there who would not be accepting of the situation even in normal social settings; but basing the norm on the negative is ignoring the fact that there are many good people in the world.

Once again you take things to an extreme end, no i take life and look at it with a lot more respect than you can even imagine. You can't even fathom that sometimes a life isn't worth living and wouldn't empathize with suffering as a reason for a means to an end. Empathy isn't supposed to be for everyone, you don't empathize for murderers and you don't empathize for her because she brought it on herself. Why would you waste your pity on someone who set themselves up for death? that isn't to say she literally set herself up for death but she risked it because she did something reckless I would never empathize for someone who plays russian roulette and yes her actions were basically playing russian roulette with someones life and her own she didn't know the man well as stated she just started to date him. It's like you're saying everyone in the world who gets killed should be empathized for. It's a joke how you can blatantly say i'm cold hearted because you can't seem to think that i have an actual broad spectrum of thought in this subject matter.

Why would I "waste my pity?" Because a human being died. Ultimately, regardless of the circumstances... the death of another person for such a stupid reason is a substantial loss. I find the entire situation, from her first contracting AIDS to him killing her, highly regrettable, and mourn the loss of life as I quietly mourn the deaths of any lost for no purpose. So yes.... I think that every person in the world, regardless of who or where they are, deserve sympathy for such things. As for her specific situation, you state that you could never empathize with her, despite stating the very reason why she would have kept it hidden: social stigma and fear. I don't have to agree with what she did, to be sorry for her situation that made her feel she had to hide an essential truth about herself in order to be in a relationship with another human being. Do I think you are cold hearted? Not particularly; I only know about your views in this one situation, which is hardly enough information to be knowledgeable enough for such a judgement. As far as I know, except for this one situation involving her, you could be the warmest, most empathetic person in the world. But do not say I cannot empathize with anything but my own views, while by the same hand criticizing me for feeling sorrow about her situation.

And of course you can empathize with the views of murderers and such, without actually agreeing with them. Unless my application of English is wrong, which it very well could be, empathy is the ability to understand the feelings and thoughts of another; if this is not the case, than I am using the wrong word. But it is perfectly possible to understand why someone does a horrible deed, even killing someone, and still maintain your own moral values.

There is nothing nihilistic about what i said, those ethics exist within those individuals and in no means do you have the power to take that away from them. The fact of the matter is that whether you want to brand something nihilistic is a means to not trying to empathize nor understand that people have their own values. That to me is more nihilistic than moral nihilism itself. You can't rationalize ethics because everyone has their own values, it's just that in society we want to see it as a certain way and a way that hopefully is universal to everyone(which goes without saying that it's absolutely not). You're trying to rationalize this subject matter is the flaw in your arguments, you keep trying to find moral philosophy in this matter but you'll eventually conclude to one thing, and that the only absolute is that there is no absolute. You can't simply find a philosophy for everything, no one is saying everyone with a disease should be killed off and nobody is saying he didn't murder. I state many times that he murdered someone. In a court he has defenses that are just as viable to get himself a just case of manslaughter and you cannot with in reason deny him of this charge.

Your point would be valid.... if you were even on the right subject. You are talking about the subjectivity about what is right, while I am talking about what is just. These are two completely different areas, because justice, while falling under the search of what is right or wrong, is far more specific in its application. Justice is a far more objective concept than right, and ultimately is not applicable in his situation because of what occurred. What would have been right in this situation is subjective, but in terms of what is just it is fairly clear that he was in the wrong.

[Deleted]

Soon.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/health/2012...s-new-research

So all it takes is bone marrow to cure HIV? or his radiation cancer treatment? i don't completely get it

[Annapolis]

It is not ignorance, it was exactly what people where taught back when aids was a big deal. It's not his fault that they didn't make just as big a deal out of telling people it is no longer as dangerous as it used to be.

So acting on an incorrect assumption is somebody else's fault because they did not update him with new information? Since when is the onus on others to keep you informed? If you are going to kill somebody over an assumption you had better make sure that assumption is true. Not to mention even if you do murder someone you're still in the wrong.

This argument is getting ridiculous. If what he did was "justifiable" then the "justice department" would not be preparing to prosecute him. Very simple.

[Deleted]

The murder is obviously not ok. If she knew then that is fucked up and depending how much you love her I would break that up. But if she didnt know about it then you could always live happy together and fuck each other anyway if its real "love" so that would be all good.

[Bryntrollian]

Saying that what she did does not warrant being on the receiving end of a vigilante murder is not "marginalizing her crime". It's just being realistic.

I do think it's helpful though to do a reality check. Because let's be frank. The reason why people are empathizing with this guy is because they still see HIV as some sort of horrific death sentence that leads to despair and unhappiness. That's the underlying feeling that drives the empathy, and it's an underlying feeling that's ultimately flawed. Admitting that isn't marginalizing her crime though.

Being forced to take meds for the rest of your life or dying instead sounds like despair to me...

[Jokerfiend]

You're a hero in my book buddy, don't ever let anyone tell you otherwise.

Hence, the go fuck yourself part. My point is, even though what I did was wrong. It was right at the same time. I can understand where this man got that emotion. He lost it and went overboard. Just like I did.

I understand the difference of protecting someone and over doing it. Against, someone insanely wronging you, to the point, where you thought it was over anyways, then over doing it.

All I'm saying is the emotion is close to the same thing. That feeling is so primal, so engaging, you honestly don't know what it's like unless you experience it. It happens in a split second. It happens so fast you can't even see. It goes black. Call it emotion but it's not. It's primal. It's the left over shit from the Apes. He went Berserk, and that's the only explanation worthy of description. That's my last piece on the subject.

This guy will walk with nothing more then some probation, regardless of what he did after. You cannot even being to fathom this mans head at that news.

[Bryntrollian]

So acting on an incorrect assumption is somebody else's fault because they did not update him with new information? Since when is the onus on others to keep you informed? If you are going to kill somebody over an assumption you had better make sure that assumption is true. Not to mention even if you do murder someone you're still in the wrong.

This argument is getting ridiculous. If what he did was "justifiable" then the "justice department" would not be preparing to prosecute him. Very simple.

If people didn't keep you readily informed how would you even know that HIV exists ?

[Austilias]

Lets be serious for a moment shall we?

-I wouldn't get into bed with a Girl I don't consider marry-able. (you may call me old school)
-It's done. It wasn't a nice act, but it's history now.
-I'm toast anyway. HIV can't be cured.

What's there left to do? Make our remaining days as nice as possible and see to it that the children get a good start into life. It's mere simply logic that follows. Killing her won't cure me.

And yes before you ask: I have a death wish IRL. Maybe that's why I'm thinking this way.

Out of curiosity, is there anything you would not forgive? I would not entirely call it a demonstration of love and affection to have sex with my partner without telling them that I have an infectious disease that will alter their life forever and will likely shave off around 20 years or more from it at worst. To me the particular instance regarding this article (having sex without telling your partner that you have a very, very serious condition that they might catch/inherit from you) is frankly one of the ultimate betrayals, right up there with cheating. It is not something you do to someone you love; bearing the aforementioned context in mind.

[justandulas]

Hence, the go fuck yourself part. My point is, even though what I did was wrong. It was right at the same time. I can understand where this man got that emotion. He lost it and went overboard. Just like I did.

I understand the difference of protecting someone and over doing it. Against, someone insanely wronging you, to the point, where you thought it was over anyways, then over doing it.

All I'm saying is the emotion is close to the same thing. That feeling is so primal, so engaging, you honestly don't know what it's like unless you experience it. It happens in a split second. It happens so fast you can't even see. It goes black. Call it emotion but it's not. It's primal. It's the left over shit from the Apes. He went Berserk, and that's the only explanation worthy of description. That's my last piece on the subject.

This guy will walk with nothing more then some probation, regardless of what he did after. You cannot even being to fathom this mans head at that news.

Completely agree about the emotion and losing control part, which is why I've stood up for him. I said he belongs in jail because he did murder her, but i've said I can understand how it could happen. Unless you've been through something where you've lost control, it's tough to judge him on it. I said prison is full of stories like that where you can sympathize with them and understand why they would murder someone using vigilanty justice. Doesn't mean they did the right thing, but you can understand.

[Deleted]

Well, I think that in the UK at least, you can be charged with some form of murder/manslaughter for having unprotected sex if you have HIV. Could be wrong, but I seem to remember hearing it somewhere. Also, closest poll ever on MMO-C?

[Lenonis]

Being forced to take meds for the rest of your life or dying instead sounds like despair to me...

Really? So people who take synthroid after having their thyroid removed are in despair? That would be news to my mom.

Diabetics are all in despair? News to them I'm sure.

Perhaps instead of making all these grand assumptions you should actually talk to people who have the condition. All three people I know with the disease aren't anywhere near "despair".

That being said, I'm sure there are people who are, but that's not a given in every case.