Are Europeans Naturally Liberal?

[Jaylock]

It seems there are very few conservative Europeans these days. Is it just super Liberal over there in Europe? Are there any conservative parties who use fiscal responsibility in their decision making? Most of the things I see from European news outlets in general is a bunch of Liberal propaganda to scare / guilt trip people into thinking socialism is the answer and the ethical way to live life.

More and more government control, and less and less wise decision making, less freedoms for the people.

I mean look what happened to Greece

[Deleted]

Britain currently has a fiscally conservative government, but happily we're also enlightened enough to realise that not all socialist policies are bad ones. The NHS for example. I think Europeans in general would find it abhorrent that somebody could become bankrupt simply because they were ill.

[MerinPally]

I get the feeling that the "conservative" american is not the same thing as a "conservative" brit. We have the Conservative party in right now.

In the rest of Europe, there's actually a lot of socialist governments that work really well. Using Greece as an example of saying that it doesn't work (which is what your post is really saying) is just wrong.

If there was one thing I could beat into American heads, it's that Socialism =/= Communism, and NEITHER = necessarily bad. Sweden and Finland are socialist I think? France definitely is. Those countries are doing fine.

The reason Greece went down was things like pensions in your 50s and silly bonuses and how they nationalised everything. Socialism doesn't necessarily entail complete nationalisation which is what happened in Greece hence it failed. Doesn't happen in all the others. Also, this is probably a good time to point out that it was the American system that caused this market crash, hence you actually made the problems for all these European countries hence the failures. Some may have happened anyway but... ehhh. So it wasn't actually the socialist governments, it was you. And the sub prime mortgage market.

Funny how some people (JPMorgan) avoided that shit almost completely and had next to no problems, yet some banks floundered. That acts as an example of not all American companies worked the same but both still work, as some banks caught up in it obviously survived.

[oplawlz]

No, liberals are just naturally noisy. You tend to be exposed to the liberal views of a society much more often than the conservative ones.

[Bolson13]

Socialism wasn't the problem with Greece. Greed and bad management + the housing crisis in the US was.

Also, there is nothing wrong with socialism. It is just a different system of paying for things. Doesn't mean European countries don't have to balance a budget.
And it is not about guilt tripping. Europeans genually feel that everybody should have at least equal opportunities and a "decent" life.

And it is not just Europe, Canada is similar, and most first world countries in Asia have a socialist system as well. The US is a little behind/more capitalist but its not like there is nothing socialist about the US.

[Deleted]

I get the feeling that the "conservative" american is not the same thing as a "conservative" brit. We have the Conservative party in right now.

You're correct about that. The political spectrum goes

European Left------European Right--American Left---------------------------------------American Right

If the Republicans tried doing half of the stuff that the Conservatives have done people would have a fit.

[MerinPally]

I think Europeans in general would find it abhorrent that somebody could become bankrupt simply because they were ill.

We would. I'm English and my dad used to work for JPMorgan in london so had good contact with lots of Americans. Was one guy who he was good friends with who was over here and he came to visit us when I was 7. They were discussing the NHS and my dad asked him how do poor people get by when someone in their family is taken ill and his answer?

"*laughs* Well Kevin, they just don't get ill" followed by a stern glare.

Isn't that simply the most terrifying idea to base a healthcare system around? Which is pretty much what the American one is? If you have the money, great we'll treat you, but if you don't, you're fucked. Goes against the Hippocratic oath. It may be a hell of an expense to keep it going but free healthcare is just too important.

I don't care that they're poor and I don't know them, I don't want to see their kids dead or deformed simply because the parents can't foot the bill.

[TwoTailedFox]

its not like there is nothing socialist about the US.

It would generally help the US if Americans didn't immediately equate Socialism with Communism.

[MerinPally]

If the Republicans tried doing half of the stuff that the Conservatives have done people would have a fit.

The Republicans terrify me. As in, genuine fear for the world if even so much as half of those ideas get put into place. How you can claim to be the most advanced and proficient country on the planet and then turn around and say "we're banning this cos a book about a guy who did a magic trick that was ridiculously overhyped 2000 years ago, MIGHT have said not too but having said that half the texts got thrown out and lost at Nicea anyway so we'll just follow the bits that people 2000 years ago decided was a good way to run things, with all their electricity and millions of people to lead"

There's a reason that the majority of europe loves Obama and hates Romney. It's because (outside of the French with relation to the Algerians, and then certain bits of eastern europe) black people don't scare a large enough percentage of us. There are swathes of America where skin colour and religion still matter, that's less of a thing in europe. Also, we had our World Wars over in Europe. Stand up for what you believe in sure but only if it affects you. Americans aren't good at that. Obama goes a tad too far for my liking but there's genuine concern as far as my circle of friends goes, that if some guy did so much as throw an orange over the lebanese border, military action would be Romneys answer to the unrest.

[Kasierith]

We would. I'm English and my dad used to work for JPMorgan in london so had good contact with lots of Americans. Was one guy who he was good friends with who was over here and he came to visit us when I was 7. They were discussing the NHS and my dad asked him how do poor people get by when someone in their family is taken ill and his answer?

"*laughs* Well Kevin, they just don't get ill" followed by a stern glare.

Isn't that simply the most terrifying idea to base a healthcare system around? Which is pretty much what the American one is? If you have the money, great we'll treat you, but if you don't, you're fucked. Goes against the Hippocratic oath. It may be a hell of an expense to keep it going but free healthcare is just too important.

I don't care that they're poor and I don't know them, I don't want to see their kids dead or deformed simply because the parents can't foot the bill.

They aren't turned away in the end. If someone is in the middle of a heart attack or a stroke, a hospital is going to treat them. What most people don't realize is that the government then has to step in and subsidize the hospital to keep it functional for these expenditures since they can't charge the patient. Its just the preventative medicine and the less than 20 dollars a month prescription as well as health checks and other such things that is cut out, meaning that instead of paying minimal cost for prophylactic treatment and the occasional checkup you pay for surgery and someone has a major incident.

So really, even from a finances standpoint, at least some measure of universal health care is preferable...

[Mnevis]

Are there any conservative parties who use fiscal responsibility in their decision making?

Are there any conservative parties who use fiscal responsibility in their decision making here in the USA?

Needed to be said.

[MerinPally]

Its just the preventative medicine and the less than 20 dollars a month prescription as well as health checks and other such things that is cut out, meaning that instead of paying minimal cost for prophylactic treatment and the occasional checkup you pay for surgery and someone has a major incident.

So really, even from a finances standpoint, at least some measure of universal health care is preferable...

So what happens when you get poor people who can't afford this sort of stuff? They go back to the hospital again and again with illness after illness and they can't do a damn thing but drain the money.

Whether it is cheaper for the government to pay for ALL of it (with the option of going private for better quality of care but the non-private stuff is still good quality) I don't know, but the pain and suffering the familys would have to go through from being ill and not being able to afford the cure is horrible. We don't get that over here.

[lzsg]

I mean look what happened to Greece

You're not honestly suggesting that Greece went down because of socialism, are you? Nobody paid taxes, people worked for like four hours a day and pretty much every single politician was corrupt. That's not socialist, that's insane.

Answering your question is not that simple. The far right in Europe is still considerably left of the Democratic party in the US. That doesn't mean governments aren't fiscally responsible - I could name several European countries who came out of the financial crisis in far better shape than the States. I think the most noticeable difference is bigger government, which does not constitute "less wise decision making", wherever you got that from. The freedoms we don't have are ones such as being able to not have health insurance and not going to college (well, obviously you can choose not to go, but you're paying for it in any case). It's a more inclusive and less individualistic system, and it seems to be working fairly well in a lot of countries.

Oh, and I don't know about all of Europe, but where I live news broadcasts are required by law to be unbiased if they want to call themselves news. I don't know where you're getting this liberal propaganda/guilt tripping stuff from.

[Televators]

It seems there are very few conservative Europeans these days. Is it just super Liberal over there in Europe? Are there any conservative parties who use fiscal responsibility in their decision making? Most of the things I see from European news outlets in general is a bunch of Liberal propaganda to scare / guilt trip people into thinking socialism is the answer and the ethical way to live life.

More and more government control, and less and less wise decision making, less freedoms for the people.

I mean look what happened to Greece

10/10. Wish I could subscribe to you.

[Giants41]

The majority is. I don't mind liberals but some of them (not all) are a little to liberal... But on the flipside people in America are to conservative so i can't talk bad.

[Kasierith]

So what happens when you get poor people who can't afford this sort of stuff? They go back to the hospital again and again with illness after illness and they can't do a damn thing but drain the money.

Whether it is cheaper for the government to pay for ALL of it (with the option of going private for better quality of care but the non-private stuff is still good quality) I don't know, but the pain and suffering the familys would have to go through from being ill and not being able to afford the cure is horrible. We don't get that over here.

Oh, I know how you feel entirely. I work in pharmacy.. and every once in a while I'll have someone come in, turn in their prescription, and then decide they can't afford it because their insurance company won't cover the medication, or even because the copay is too high on it. Its distressing when finances are an obstacle to health and well being.

[Deleted]

Simply different culture. You get raised by eu parents, you think on those lines.

[Deleted]

I think it depends a lot on age. Young people tend to be more liberal, but as you get older you become more conservative.

[Sunseeker]

Socialism isn't the devil. The only one fearmongering here is you.

[MerinPally]

10/10. Wish I could subscribe to you.

Can't tell if sarcastic or not. The man is suggesting Greece went down because it was Socialist, which is just wrong. There's nothing wrong with Socialism. If there was, can you explain why Sweden is such a success at pretty much everything it does? That's just one example, there are plenty more. If I remember anyway it was the American system that collapsed, not socialism.

Oh, I know how you feel entirely. I work in pharmacy.. and every once in a while I'll have someone come in, turn in their prescription, and then decide they can't afford it because their insurance company won't cover the medication, or even because the copay is too high on it. Its distressing when finances are an obstacle to health and well being.

I probably think it's awful because I was brought up in the system where everyone gets the required treatment irrespective of outside factors, so I can't make an unbiased judgement. However, if the system is affordable to the government, I don't see how anyone could argue that a system where the rich get treated and the poor don't always, is better than one where everyone gets treated well always and if you want it NOW rather than with a small wait, then you can pay for it and get it as and when you need it. Even then, that system comes with a case of "if it's emergency, you bypass the queue"