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Did Blizzard just hotfix an ilvl requirement onto Awakened LFR?
MMO-Champion
Quote from a dev, and something I have been saying for since LFR was announced
´LFR justifies the creation of more raid content when millions of players are able to see content. Only a few thousand people actually saw Kel'thuzad, but millions saw Deathwing. The reason Mists of Pandaria is starting with 18 bosses and adding larger raid tiers than we have had previously is because many players are going to see the raids through LFR. ´
Anyone who says they want to see LFR eliminated needs to realize they are then looking at getting 4 raid bosses per tier and 300 daily quests and 5 heroic dungeons per patch. The amount of people doing an activity is what determines how much dev time goes into it.
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2012-09-21, 01:33 PM #1Scarab Lord
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The most important quote elitist raiders need to hear..
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2012-09-21, 01:34 PM #2Deleted
Originally Posted by Azrile
Back in vanilla KZ was a better fight them DW HC. And it couldn't be facerolled at 70
More Bosses doesnt mean quality
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2012-09-21, 01:36 PM #3Deleted
The end justifies the means...
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2012-09-21, 01:36 PM #4Deleted
They claim it's just about seeing content, then they nerf the regular raids with a stacking debuff too...
Not really interested in them justifying LFR
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2012-09-21, 01:37 PM #5Deletedsee content sure but be so kind to remove loot table from it aswell then? Originally Posted by Azrile
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2012-09-21, 01:38 PM #6Herald of the Titans
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Blame Blizzard, not LFR. Originally Posted by Yakobo15
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2012-09-21, 01:40 PM #7DeletedThere were never many people who wanted LFR gone, I don't got a problem with the concept. I have huge problem with how the concept is brought in design. I will be forced to LFR even though I don't want to, I will be forced to clear bosses on a more easy level even though I don't want to...THAT is my problem. Originally Posted by Azrile
I don't mind seeing people do LFR, I just think that they should either remove most of the loot drops in LFR OR make LFR items drop the same Ilvl as 5 man dungeons...after all the point is to see all the content and not bring a challenge. When there is nothing to gain for a endgame raider in LFR than they simply are not forced to run it.
You act like other players are selfish, no you are. You are forcing other players to play on a mode that they have no intrest in, and yes we don't got a choice. Any raiding guild who is a litle serious about raiding will demand that it's members do LFR for gear.
This is what I am referring to. If it is about seeing the content than there shouldn't be any loot involved in the first place as you don't have to progress in LFR. Originally Posted by shroudster
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2012-09-21, 01:43 PM #8High Overlord
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that's why it's not coming out the first week a raid is available, even then if they "force" you to do it you'd probably only have to do it once or twice. Originally Posted by Sarac
Originally Posted by Ghoulthaz
Originally Posted by Kujako
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2012-09-21, 01:46 PM #9The Lightbringer
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Those nerfs are to help those progressing. Not everyone is capable of clearing 8/8 HC or 8/8 normal. Without the buffs/nerfs many of those guilds would hit a brick wall and fall apart. I bet this saves more customers then leaving the difficulty as is. Originally Posted by Yakobo15
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2012-09-21, 01:46 PM #10DeletedSo you're comparing Vanilla's - possibly - best fight with Cataclysm's worst fight ? That sounds fair ! Ragnaros HC pre-nerf and Sinestra were most definitely better than KZ in Vanilla. Then again, Cataclysm overall wasn't a good expansion, WotLK for example had even better fights (Firefighter, Yogg +0 and LK HC come to mind). Originally Posted by Etna
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2012-09-21, 01:46 PM #11Deleted
[QUOTE=Sarac;18508061]There were never many people who wanted LFR gone, I don't got a problem with the concept. I have huge problem with how the concept is brought in design. I will be forced to LFR even though I don't want to, I will be forced to clear bosses on a more easy level even though I don't want to...THAT is my problem.
I don't mind seeing people do LFR, I just think that they should either remove most of the loot drops in LFR OR make LFR items drop the same Ilvl as 5 man dungeons...after all the point is to see all the content and not bring a challenge. When there is nothing to gain for a endgame raider in LFR than they simply are not forced to run it.
You act like other players are selfish, no you are. You are forcing other players to play on a mode that they have no intrest in, and yes we don't got a choice. Any raiding guild who is a litle serious about raiding will demand that it's members do LFR for gear.
This is what I am referring to. If it is about seeing the content than there shouldn't be any loot involved in the first place as you don't have to progress in LFR for gear.
Nobody forces you to do anything. It's a game you don't have to do anything that you don't want to...
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2012-09-21, 01:47 PM #12DeletedI don't know about you, but I won't be fully raid geared after 2 weeks...so yes, I'l have to run it more often. But as soon as I have done it once than I find myself fucked over already...because I downed all bosses without deserving so. Originally Posted by MSTRKRFT
---------- Post added 2012-09-21 at 03:49 PM ----------
[QUOTE=Rekthar91;18508133]When you play in a raid context that yes you are forced, don't try to twist this around because you don't got any proper arguments. Originally Posted by Sarac
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2012-09-21, 01:50 PM #13The Undying
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The only thing they really claim is a business decision. It is not profitable to create raid content for a few thousand people. The costs for that exceed the income for it.
Wrap your heads around the fact that you are dealing with a company who has to rightfully make business decisions catered towards profit.
Profit also includes jobs. People make the content. Those people have no job, if raiding was only build around a few tens of thousands.
The comparison they make is still valid, and the argument bosses were harder to kill than today is wrong for various reasons.
Bosses today are still as hard to kill as they were before.
Turn the damn debuff off, switch heroic mode on, and exchange the gear you wear from Heroic/Debuff kills with Normal mode gear... And then do Heroic unbuffed....
After that, come back and talk again..
The reason why older expansion bosses can be killed easier now, compared to the past, lies not in the triviality. It lies in the exponential stat system the game is build on.
It was harder at level 70 to kill a level 60 boss, than it is now for a level 85 to kill a level 80 boss. The stats simply do that.
Where you did 400 dps in vanilla, and 900 dps in TBC, you do 40k in Cata now. Just to throw out some numbers.
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2012-09-21, 01:52 PM #14Warchief
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A lot of people are simply ignorant and refuse to view LFR from a bigger perspective.
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2012-09-21, 01:56 PM #15The Patient
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Just for reference, I am a raider, I've cleared every hc mode in cataclysm before they were significantly nerfed.
On to my point. This blue post is absolutely correct, we raiders are completely the minority. This is just fact, and not something any amount of debate or whine will change. If LFR is the price of more raiding content thats fine, I'm 100% ok with that and I really don't see why you people wouldn't be as well. I'd rather have a 14 boss tier with a bunch of hardmode only bosses, and varying difficulty encounters (like sartharion style) than 7 bosses and 1 hard boss. If I have to run LFR a few times to get that, I really don't see a problem.
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2012-09-21, 02:03 PM #16Field Marshal
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after t14 if you are heroic geared you wont have to do LFR in the next tier, because your gear will be better.
Look at it from another perspective though, Unless you are in a handful of guilds that are pushing for world firsts, why would you not use LFR as a tool for perfecting the mechanics? Think about it, LFR is basically target dummies shaped like bosses.
You don't HAVE to sit on the target dummies either to perfect your rotation. When my guild was working on hardmode spine we had our raiders practicing 18 second rotations on the target dummies for hours.
I couldn't care less about the loot, but in my opinion LFR is an invaluable tool for anyone who wants to improve their play.
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2012-09-21, 02:06 PM #17DeletedYou know whats better then millions of people seeing latest raid? Millions of people seeing the rest of the game. Dont you think TBC,WotLK and soon Cata could serve as something more than just level packs gating you from the newest content? Originally Posted by Azrile
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2012-09-21, 02:29 PM #18Dreadlord
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While I am thrilled that Blizzard actually plans on implementing bigger raids, and I completely understand your point about how "elitist" raiders should be okay with LFR because it makes Blizzard create larger raids...
It could still easily be argued that LFR creates completely dumbed down raids. Because LFR exists, we will no longer EVER see another Conclave fight, another Bethtilac fight, another Nefarian fight, another Rhyolith fight, another Atramedes fight, another Baleroc fight, another Sinestra fight, and dozens more than I won't bother listing from previous expansions.... Any fight that requires people to manually split up into groups (Conclave, Nef, Beth) or requires a decent amount of coordination (Rhyolith, Baleroc) or requires one person to step up and "manage" the fight (Atramedes, Sinestra dispelling) will NEVER be created again.
Think about it. Put 25 LFR people with full 384s into NORMAL Nefarian and let the QQing commence. I understand that Blizzard can simply remove mechanics of a fight (LFR Spine), but they are currently designing every single fight with LFR in mind.... there are some mechanics they cannot use anymore or else it will be too complicated or require too much coordination for a LFR group.
I am very glad they are actually committed to making larger raids, but perhaps the reason they all of a sudden can design more raid bosses is because the bosses are easier to design.... since they have to keep LFR in mind... just maybe.
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2012-09-21, 02:31 PM #19I am Murloc!
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That may be, but less than a single percent of the playerbase saw him in Classic WoW. And that isn't saying the hardcore raiders saw him, thats saying the very VERY luckiest percent of them did. That isn't good design and it isn't a good use of resources. Originally Posted by Etna
Originally Posted by melodramocracy
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2012-09-21, 02:32 PM #20The Patient
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Yeah, a stacking debuff that you HAVE to use. You know, one that you don't have an option to turn off. Oh, wait... Originally Posted by Yakobo15
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