So... I'll have to do these dailies *forever*?

[Deleted]

Really they will barely bump into them? I can list several they will bump into right now. LFR is reported to be much harder than it was previously. Sounds like a barrier to me. The bosses in heroics not only have shitty loot tables they also have shitty drop rates for jp and vp (both of which are useless at various periods during progression) sounds like a barrier to me. Hitting 460 is also by no means an easy feat. It requires far more effort than previously found. Here's what your not getting. To much effort is a barrier. If people think it's to much effort and then guys like you tell them to bad then they'll leave. I see lots of barriers especially when compared to how smooth it went in cataclysm....

Edited my first post at first but think it's better to just post another one:
As a side note, I don't know if you knew but, at the end of Lich King, the average WoW player wasn't even lvl 80 yet. Those are the kind of people I'm talking about, I highly doubt that these barriers will ever be a problem for them.

Also getting into LFR is an easy feat, you need 460 item lvl. Justice point gear is 458, with no reputation requirement. Full set of JP gear plus like 3 pieces of HC gear and you're set, no dailies even required.

[Faroth]

Theirs clearing raids in 4 weeks and then theirs 3-4 months to acquire all the valor gear assuming you cap out each week ( a painful fucking process at this point) and that's only if you do their dailies. Some gating is obviously necessary this is to much especially for people who don't raid. I mean you guys are defending them because you know what this expansion is about. It's not making more content it's making more with less. Is that what you really want out Blizzard?

But you're viewing it as Cataclysm or late Wrath and it's not. Valor and Justice gear aren't supposed to be for gearing up, it's for filling gaps left by heroics. the intention is to gear up via dungeons rather than buying gear as your primary source.

I've gotten one justice item from Klaxxi. I've got my helm, chest, belt, and gun from heroic drops before I started doing Golden Lotus, I haven't done Shado Pan. I've been doing Cloud Serpent, Tillers, and Klaxxi mainly. I expect I'll be raiding LFR in the next week or two while waiting for my group to level (some haven't bought expansion due to cash >_<).

I don't need Cloud Serpent and Tillers isn't a priority requirement, but they're fun to me. I could be focusing on the gear dailies, but I haven't and I still expect to be raid ready in under a month.

People are making the dailies a bigger deal than they are. They aren't as dead set necessary as people want to claim they are.

My advice is to adopt a more Burning Crusade mentality.
Do a random heroic for 60 valor, then go into the LFG option and choose the specific dungeons that drop your gear each day. Target your gear and go after it specifically JUST LIKE Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King were. Valor and Justice gear are secondary options. If you really want some, work on a specific faction, but not all of them at once. If you feel you absolutely must have access to all of the faction gear, suck it up and do the dailies.

Really they will barely bump into them? I can list several they will bump into right now. LFR is reported to be much harder than it was previously. Sounds like a barrier to me.

People wanted LFR to be a separate progression path, people wanted to bring back "real" raiding instead of faceroll LFR. That's what they've done. Difficulty is the very barrier you want to have in place.

Difficulty barrier is the oldest form of gating content.

[Synstir]

When the other option is less rewarding then it becomes a necessity to do. Charms are simply a very bad design because they promote the mentality that Blizzard had been trying to get away from at one point.

Exactly! I don't get why they change around their philosophy so much; it doesn't make sense.
it looks like they lack vision right now and just are trying different things to see what works but don't see solutions. It is sad really.

[Deleted]

See, you don't even grasp what irony is. Irony would be if I said they were using a strawman, but that action itself being a strawman in the first place, but it wasn't was it? because you label it as an Ad hominem.

But it's also not an Ad Hominem because I don't just insult the replier apart from one not so witty quip, I laid down my opinion that was to do with the subject and the points they were raising, without resorting to name calling or trying to sling mud.

Please, stop using big special words if you have no idea what they mean.

Oh i know what they mean but apparently you don't. It's funny watching you degenerate into a raging child in this thread though as you're exposed again and again

You're beginning to sound like you need to step away from the internet and get some fresh air because every other post by you includes some form of insult at this point. Pro tip - name calling won't make you right

Keep it civil

[Deleted]

Those people won't mind the barriers since they will barely bump into them... Even without the rep cap they still wouldn't get anywhere near exalted in weeks, and they can still progress their characters just fine in dungeons, heroics and LFR.

Just to note this out. What use is getting VP and JP from dungeons if it's utterly worthless. I am already grinding Heroics, so JP is useless for me, and I have no exalted reps so VP is useless for me.

So I am stuck to doing JUST heroics if I want to get gear and then JUST LFR when I am finally geared enough to do those.

[Glorious Leader]

Edited my first post at first but think it's better to just post another one:
As a side note, I don't know if you knew but, at the end of Lich King, the average WoW player wasn't even lvl 80 yet. Those are the kind of people I'm talking about, I highly doubt that these barriers will ever be a problem for them.

Also getting into LFR is an easy feat, you need 460 item lvl. Justice point gear is 458, with no reputation requirement. Full set of JP gear plus like 3 pieces of HC gear and you're set, no dailies even required.

Farming the 458 takes FOREVER. I don't think you get how abysmal the gains are. It's one thing if you saved up your jp from lvl 85 but try and do it from scratch. Especially in a guild without the justice reward. It is slow as piss and is yet another barrier to content that must be overcome and can only be overcome with time consuming and pain staking effort. To much of that and those people will say fuck this and then you tell them to bad they will leave.

[frogger237]

You shouldn't have to do them forever to keep your charms, the quest is a weekly so if you do them everyday you will end up with like 4 times the amount you need.

I think i missed a few days and I have like 364 after turning in the weekly(didnt turn in todays yet)

[Deleted]

Oh i know what they mean but apparently you don't. It's funny watching you degenerate into a raging child in this thread though as you're exposed again and again

You're beginning to sound like you need to step away from the internet and get some fresh air

This, my Friend, is an Ad Hominem. Thank you for posting a textbook example of one to see how utterly stupid you actually are.

Enough flaming

[Chonar]

I've just been enchanging justice points for honor instead. The warrior PVP set is awesome, even if only for transmog.

[Deleted]

Just to note this out. What use is getting VP and JP from dungeons if it's utterly worthless. I am already grinding Heroics, so JP is useless for me, and I have no exalted reps so VP is useless for me.

So I am stuck to doing JUST heroics if I want to get gear and then JUST LFR when I am finally geared enough to do those.

JP isn't meant to give you better gear than Heroics... That would just be silly considering how easy it is to obtain. VP will always be useful since you can use it to upgrade the item level of your raiding gear, even heroic raiding gear.

[Deleted]

This, my Friend, is an Ad Hominem. Thank you for posting a textbook example of one to see how utterly stupid you actually are.

I predict you wont be on here for long lol

Fresh air, go get it

[Deleted]

Farming the 458 takes FOREVER. I don't think you get how abysmal the gains are. It's one thing if you saved up your jp from lvl 85 but try and do it from scratch. Especially in a guild without the justice reward. It is slow as piss and is yet another barrier to content that must be overcome and can only be overcome with time consuming and pain staking effort. To much of that and those people will say fuck this and then you tell them to bad they will leave.

No, those people will actually not even try to gear up like that because they have nothing to gear up for. Those people are probably not even interested in raiding, have very limited time to play, and only log on to do whatever it is they think is fun. I think most of them level alts.

[Glorious Leader]

But you're viewing it as Cataclysm or late Wrath and it's not. Valor and Justice gear aren't supposed to be for gearing up, it's for filling gaps left by heroics. the intention is to gear up via dungeons rather than buying gear as your primary source.

I've gotten one justice item from Klaxxi. I've got my helm, chest, belt, and gun from heroic drops before I started doing Golden Lotus, I haven't done Shado Pan. I've been doing Cloud Serpent, Tillers, and Klaxxi mainly. I expect I'll be raiding LFR in the next week or two while waiting for my group to level (some haven't bought expansion due to cash >_<).

I don't need Cloud Serpent and Tillers isn't a priority requirement, but they're fun to me. I could be focusing on the gear dailies, but I haven't and I still expect to be raid ready in under a month.

People are making the dailies a bigger deal than they are. They aren't as dead set necessary as people want to claim they are.

My advice is to adopt a more Burning Crusade mentality.
Do a random heroic for 60 valor, then go into the LFG option and choose the specific dungeons that drop your gear each day. Target your gear and go after it specifically JUST LIKE Burning Crusade and Wrath of the Lich King were. Valor and Justice gear are secondary options. If you really want some, work on a specific faction, but not all of them at once. If you feel you absolutely must have access to all of the faction gear, suck it up and do the dailies.

No I'm viewing it as the way the system as has always been going back to IOQD. Over the course of time it's been fine tuned and refined until it became the most rewarding experience in cataclysm. Christ I remember oggling the shit out of the gear on that fucking Island it was great and I always looked forward to that every patch. Windows shopping and gear drooling. Except for MoP. When MoP came out all I could see was "required revered" for valor gear and "458" for jp. MoP marks a vast departure from that system and it wasn't exactly advertised. This change was snuck in later in the beta and apparently they didn't take very much feed back in it.

Adopting a BC mentality would be great if I could travel time to when I was that guy living that life. I cannot. Times change and I'm not sure why they think they can regress the model back. Telling me to suck it up doesn't help. Working on a specific faction is even worse, that just means less content and I'm back in org afking in even less time. No this system is borked out the ass and they just need to acknowledge that dungeons aren't rewarding in the slightest. Hell they were more rewarding in TBC.

[GeordieMagpie]

"OMG I MISS WHEN BC HAD EPIC GRINDS AND DAILIES"
"OMG I HATE THAT PANDAREN HAS BORING GRINDS AND DAILIES"
..Why is it boring, aren't they both grinds and dailies including killing? MoP has better technology however, so what's wrong?
"WOW IS TOO EASY, MAKE IT HARD"
*cant get gear*
WOW IS TOO HARD MAKE IT EASY.

Listen, I know you dont want to hear this but..WORK, it's what made the almighty BC good, shittons of attunement grinds and dailies, so start working. I sure as hell want it to be easier, but let's face it, what good is a game without any challenge?

[Glorious Leader]

No, those people will actually not even try to gear up like that because they have nothing to gear up for. Those people are probably not even interested in raiding, have very limited time to play, and only log on to do whatever it is they think is fun. I think most of them level alts.

This may come as a surprise to you but just because someone doesn't raid or raid regularly doesn't mean they don't want to grow their character. I have 5 alts. I would love to gear them all and watch them get powerful and strong as hell. That's not gonna happen this expansion and for no good reason as far as I can tell. So you can hang out in pandaria for 10 minutes each day and feel amazing about it?

[Demetrion]

Seven daily quests per day doesn't seem to much when it comes to capping your charms for the week.

[Glorious Leader]

Listen, I know you dont want to hear this but..WORK, it's what made the almighty BC good, shittons of attunement grinds and dailies, so start working.

Nope. Dailies didn't have gear rewards attached to them like they do now. BC was great but BC was also 2000 whatever when it came out. Times change the game should move forward not backward. Blizzard knows this and whenever they moved the game forward they made piles of cash. When they did the regressive thing in cata (making dungeons harder) they lost piles of cash.

[Deleted]

JP isn't meant to give you better gear than Heroics... That would just be silly considering how easy it is to obtain. VP will always be useful since you can use it to upgrade the item level of your raiding gear, even heroic raiding gear.

It would be useful... alas, I don't have any raid items to actually use, because, surprise surprise, I can only run them twice a week, so I have YET to reach the level that VP gets useful for me until I start gaining decent items from raids.

However, what about people gearing for raids? JP is mostly useless, most of the items bought are for slots easily taken by other items from heroics.

Hell I know for a fact most of the JP items are worse than drops from most heroic bosses for tanks. So we basically get a cross contamination for loot.

JP is mostly useless, Heroic loot is only worth to get into LFR and raids, VP is all tied to grinding reps, Raid gear is both easier to get and better than VP gear.

So Basically. JP and VP are useless for me. I am basically stuck in a loop where I either need to grind reps OR get random lucky drops from raids. There is zero smooth transition at all.

[Deleted]

This may come as a surprise to you but just because someone doesn't raid or raid regularly doesn't mean they don't want to grow their character. I have 5 alts. I would love to gear them all and watch them get powerful and strong as hell. That's not gonna happen this expansion and for no good reason as far as I can tell. So you can hang out in pandaria for 10 minutes each day and feel amazing about it?

I'm well aware there are people who want to progress their characters/alts even though they have no intention of raiding. The funny thing is though that progress requires effort, otherwise it's just free stuff. And the effort is out there, it's called heroics, but you thought it would take too much time to gear up that way... The average player is still not lvl 90 yet, has perhaps not even bought the expansion yet whatever reason. What I do know is that by the time they hit 90 and want to progress their character, they will have no problem doing so since everyone else are already geared and Blizzard will likely have made further steps to ease up the gearing process (as they always do, over time).

[Kelimbror]

No, those people will actually not even try to gear up like that because they have nothing to gear up for. Those people are probably not even interested in raiding, have very limited time to play, and only log on to do whatever it is they think is fun. I think most of them level alts.

Complete misrepresentation of an entire player base. Thank you for speaking for millions of people with assumptions!

It is a farce to keep using the argument that casual players who don't want to actively raid shouldn't or don't want gear upgrades. The community, game design, and long history of this game has hammered home that epics are what matters. They look awesome, they make everything you want to do easier/more efficient and you are foolish to think otherwise.

It's a problem that you have to do dailies to spend valor. If valor is effectively worthless for people who aren't raiding and thus don't alrady have access to the epics, why is it even in the game and why does EVERYTHING you do reward it? I wish people would take this surprisingly good expansion for what it is, instead of letting their already negative expectations be launched to much too great heights while overlooking all the flaws.