[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Elim Garak]

Have to disagree I am afraid. Whether a game offers a roadmap with a backlog of features as you say, or instead it offers a roadmap for new content and expansions, is just a matter of semantics. The differences if any only come down to relative quality of the released product. There is virtually no difference (commercially, legally or otherwise) at all in any meaningful sense, except in the different quality level of the released products. The former (early access release) is just a self declared sub par product with good intentions for improvement, the latter (regular release) is just a regular product with expansion intentions.

In both cases it is simply future work proposed by a developer after release. Neither case offers a guarantee or has an obligation to actually undertake that future work. But both cases represent an actual release. As opposed to crowdfund or pre sales.

Plus we have CIG on record stating SC is a released product.

You are the one playing semantics here. Early Access Release is not The Release. There are different levels to "Release", heck in some levels every new build is a release. This is not a technical argument. Star Citizen has not been released. It didn't even had a Beta release, not to mention an RC (Release Candidate - ponder about the ramification of this term on your argument).
Early Access, Alpha, Beta and RC - are not The Product. Not The Release. It's A release. Any technical expert will sort that out in civil court.

[kenn9530]

After 10 years of having not delivered the product that people paid for, I would say yes.

10 years is not alot of time to make 2 games and build a company from the ground up, just because you have unrealistic expectations. If they started with a fully established studio you may at least have the start of a point but its a very difficult job to build a game like star citizen and create a company from nothing. Games are getting bigger and bigger and even fully established studios struggle are struggling to get a mostly sinlge player game developed in 10 years now, and other companies keep pushing back games over and over.

[Edge-]

Games are getting bigger and bigger and even fully established studios struggle are struggling to get a mostly sinlge player game developed in 10 years now, and other companies keep pushing back games over and over.

This is untrue, still. One or two games having overly long development cycles doesn't mean there is a trend. Development time is increasing, but AAA's are baking for 5 years on the longer end now, not 10.

[XDurionX]

welp, i have cashed out. Ten years ago i backed squadron 42. Ten years later and still no game. I had fun playing sc during 2015/2016 when it was just a space station and three moons, but since then the game has become unenjoyable to play, and that wasn't what i was here for. Maybe i will come back if they ever release the singleplayer campaign, but i am holding my breath no longer. Today i sold my gamepackage on /r/starcitizen_trades. Thanks to @banmebaby and another poster on rpgcodex for helping me out with that. Gonna buy some discounted games on steam.

praise the lord

[banmebaby]

This is untrue, still. One or two games having overly long development cycles doesn't mean there is a trend. Development time is increasing, but AAA's are baking for 5 years on the longer end now, not 10.

Lol, we are almost at a thousand pages of that repetitive mantra and you are still trying? Games will always take as long as whatever Star Citizen is taking, in 2030, 20 years will be the new standard, because Bla Bla Bla never been done before Bla Bla Bla from the ground up.

[kenn9530]

This is untrue, still. One or two games having overly long development cycles doesn't mean there is a trend. Development time is increasing, but AAA's are baking for 5 years on the longer end now, not 10.

red dead redemption 2 8-9 years to release to PC, GTA 6 over 10 years at least, cyberpunk 2077 around 9 years, FF7 remake taking over 8 years so far and not fully released yet so not untrue in the slightest some of the largest single player/limited online games take a long time to develop and thats with fully established studios from the start of development.

Many other triple A titles are fairly small sized games so a little easier to get them developed in a shorter time frame, games like Doom eternal are small games compared to red dead 2.

Its fairly easy to understand the larger scale the game the longer the development takes.

[Edge-]

red dead redemption 2 8-9 years to release to PC, GTA 6 over 10 years at least, cyberpunk 2077 around 9 years, FF7 remake taking over 8 years so far and not fully released yet so not untrue in the slightest some of the largest single player/limited online games take a long time to develop and thats with fully established studios from the start of development.

Many other triple A titles are fairly small sized games so a little easier to get them developed in a shorter time frame, games like Doom eternal are small games compared to red dead 2.

Its fairly easy to understand the larger scale the game the longer the development takes.

2 games took 10 years, 2 more games took nearly 10 years. That's like, fewer AAA games than are released in the month of October each year and those games cover roughly a decade of releases.

So no, 4 games over the span of like a decade do not a trend make.

[Kyanion]

Games are getting bigger and bigger and even fully established studios struggle are struggling to get a mostly sinlge player game developed in 10 years now, and other companies keep pushing back games over and over.

What a bullshit statement but this is typical. How many companies FAIL to deliver a game in 10 years? What games have even GONE over 10 years outside of Duke Nukem, SC and a few other various games. It is a RARE occurrence.

- - - Updated - - -

This is untrue, still. One or two games having overly long development cycles doesn't mean there is a trend. Development time is increasing, but AAA's are baking for 5 years on the longer end now, not 10.

I mean it is just the constant trolling, lying, obfuscation, moving the goalposts and so on that kenn takes part in and yet is free to post this nonsense on the forums over many different games not just SC. So why are you surprised?

[kenn9530]

2 games took 10 years, 2 more games took nearly 10 years. That's like, fewer AAA games than are released in the month of October each year and those games cover roughly a decade of releases.

So no, 4 games over the span of like a decade do not a trend make.

The larger the game the longer it takes to develop, most of these games are primarily single player focused so they dont even require as much development on the online side and still most are almost hitting the 10 year mark, so ppl complaining a company is taking over 10 years to develop not just a single player game which takes other companies nearly 10 years, they are also making an MMO so just using basic logic most ppl should accept that development is going to be longer, and thats not even considering creating a company from the ground up.

[Edge-]

The larger the game the longer it takes to develop, most of these games are primarily single player focused so they dont even require as much development on the online side and still most are almost hitting the 10 year mark, so ppl complaining a company is taking over 10 years to develop not just a single player game which takes other companies nearly 10 years, they are also making an MMO so just using basic logic most ppl should accept that development is going to be longer, and thats not even considering creating a company from the ground up.

Reminder of your claim -

Games are getting bigger and bigger and even fully established studios struggle are struggling to get a mostly sinlge player game developed in 10 years now, and other companies keep pushing back games over and over.

You're adding all kinds of additional qualifiers onto this while also backpedaling from it and changing the claim.

You simply made an inaccurate claim, that's it.

[Kyanion]

The larger the game the longer it takes to develop, most of these games are primarily single player focused so they dont even require as much development on the online side and still most are almost hitting the 10 year mark, so ppl complaining a company is taking over 10 years to develop not just a single player game which takes other companies nearly 10 years, they are also making an MMO so just using basic logic most ppl should accept that development is going to be longer, and thats not even considering creating a company from the ground up.

Move those goalposts! Do whatever necessary to try and make CIG not look as incompetent as they really are.

[kenn9530]

Reminder of your claim -



You're adding all kinds of additional qualifiers onto this while also backpedaling from it and changing the claim.

You simply made an inaccurate claim, that's it.

I didnt make an inaccute claim i stated many larger games are taking almost 10 years just for what is mostly a single player game, and the larger the game the longer it takes to develop it, so many fully established studios are nearly taking 10 years to develop a single player game and some of those games have limited multiplayer, why would you expect CiG to develop 2 games, build a company from the ground up in a faster time.

[XDurionX]

The larger the game the longer it takes to develop

Where is all the stuff that'd make SC a "large" game?

[Edge-]

so many fully established studios are nearly taking 10 years to develop a single player game

You listed three studios (Rockstar made both GTA and RDR, so they only count once).

[Kyanion]

I didnt make an inaccute claim i stated many larger games are taking almost 10 years just for what is mostly a single player game, and the larger the game the longer it takes to develop it, so many fully established studios are nearly taking 10 years to develop a single player game and some of those games have limited multiplayer, why would you expect CiG to develop 2 games, build a company from the ground up in a faster time.

Many? LOL. You didn't even name FOUR. You named some that weren't 10. Also you were just flat out wrong on some of the games you listed. Typical kenn.

[kenn9530]

You listed three studios (Rockstar made both GTA and RDR, so they only count once).

There are only a few studios that make pretty large AAA games, most other games are fairly small in size and im just pointing out the large scale games, there are quite a few other companies that take almost or more than 10 years to develop a game, im not the one complaining about development time, i dont grudge any company to take as long as they require to develop a game.

[Kyanion]

There are only a few studios that make pretty large AAA games, most other games are fairly small in size and im just pointing out the large scale games, there are quite a few other companies that take almost or more than 10 years to develop a game, im not the one complaining about development time, i dont grudge any company to take as long as they require to develop a game.

The rare triple-down on goalpost moving.

[banmebaby]

i dont grudge any company to take as long as they require to develop a game.

Ah this overused strawman from the CiG lunnie bin again...

People don't have grudges because the game is taking way over a decade in development.

People have "grudges" because they have been giving out release windows trough out those +10 years, failing miserably every single time, yet profiting insanely from it.

2014: "It was originally announced for release in 2014 during the Kickstarter campaign"
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Citizen

2015: "Fall 2015 First Episode of Squadron 42 release"
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a1GU....be&t=1h32m43s

2016: “SQ42 was announced originally in a Kickstarter campaign in 2012 together with Star Citizen. After the implementation of more Stretch goals (the last stretch goal was achieved 2014-11-10) the release was subsequently postponed. After CitizenCon in 2015, a new homepage "Answer the Call" showed the date 2016. At CitizenCon 2016 Roberts confirmed a delay of the game.”

https://i.ibb.co/zPPwHqD/2016.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/sq1VNQk/2016-2.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/LJbwdL1/2016-3.png

https://starcitizen.tools/Squadron_42
http://media.kotaku.foxtrot.future.n...lease-date.png
https://web.archive.org/web/20161214...lease-date.png

2017: "During tonight's Citizencon livestream, Cloud Imperium Games announced that Squadron 42, Star Citizen's single player campaign, will not meet its 2016 release date."
https://i.ibb.co/PWRv7Dw/2017.jpg
https://i.ibb.co/WKC3CJc/2017-2.jpg
web.archive.org/web/20161106004215/https://robertsspaceindustries.com/squadron42
web.archive.org/web/20190103031332/https://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/10/10/star-citizen-single-player-campaign-delayed-into-2017

2020: “Cloud Imperium Games, the company behind the long-awaited space sim Star Citizen, have made a big announcement. Squadron 42, the single player offshoot of Star Citizen, is going to enter the beta stages some time in mid-2020.”
https://www.gosunoob.com/star-citize...nnounced-2020/
….
"You will of course notice that our target beta date for Squadron 42 has moved back by 12 weeks in today's roadmap update"
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/2...ths-to-q3-2020
….
“We will not be in beta this calendar year — that’s one thing I absolutely know,” Brian Chambers said in the video below. “And once we do have the dates that us internally and leadership and the team are confident that we have dates that we believe we can hit, with all the data we have together, we’ll share that to everybody as soon as we can.”
https://www.kotaku.com.au/2020/10/st...2-delay-again/

Obsly we both know this, since we have been over it about a hundred times already.

[hulkgor]

I only check this thread once every couple of months, and have done so for a handful of years, and it's always the same argument, and the same shill arguing for Star Citizen. It's actually impressive.

Keep up the good fight kenn9530.

/s

[Henako]

You simply made an inaccurate claim, that's it.

That's his thing. It's literally all he does.