[Megathread] Star Citizen

[kenn9530]

Too bad the server FPS plummets down from 10 if there are 100 players on the server. To get 10 FPS, the server needs to have less than 40 or 50 (with a lot of luck) players in it.

I mean, fuck. Freelancer servers had more 20 years ago.

I had over 10 server FPS with over 100 players last night, the game is running more than fine with being loading a ton of information all the time, Server FPS doesnt need large numbers for a server to work just fine, an alpha doesnt have to work perfectly because its an alpha.

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btw here is your flawless AI

The only AI that matters is the AI at missions currently so you can play the game just fine, I never once said everything is flawless, i said its works more than fine for an alpha with very little issues.

[Orange Joe]

I had over 10 server FPS with over 100 players last night, the game is running more than fine with being loading a ton of information all the time, Server FPS doesnt need large numbers for a server to work just fine, an alpha doesnt have to work perfectly because its an alpha.

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The only AI that matters is the AI at missions currently so you can play the game just fine, I never once said everything is flawless, i said its works more than fine for an alpha with very little issues.

bullshit, prove it. I haven't seen 10 fps on a server with more than 60 people yet.


The AI at missions is just as bad. They stand in groups and wait for you to walk up and shoot them.

[kenn9530]

I said world server, not instance server.
Well take a note from Blizzard - it had server meshing before SC popularized the term.
But even in 2004 they had 40-man raids. With better TPS than SC would with the same number of players.
And no SC doesn't use that much data as you think. And it's not data that affects TPS. It's the calculations on the server. But if they do real physics simulations on the server - they are imbeciles. It's a game not science project.

Each realm in WoW is split into many servers that split up the playerbase, WoW doesn't have server meshing at all either it has static servers that waste a ton of resources running a handful of players, in WoW you can see player disappear when going into some zones because you are jumping into a different server, if they were meshed together you would always be able to see other players even switching servers.

WoW runs like crap with more than a raid team size in one area, the game is not designed to handle that many players in the same instance at the same time.

[Ausr]

Each realm in WoW is split into many servers that split up the playerbase, WoW doesn't have server meshing at all either it has static servers that waste a ton of resources running a handful of players, in WoW you can see player disappear when going into some zones because you are jumping into a different server, if they were meshed together you would always be able to see other players even switching servers.

WoW runs like crap with more than a raid team size in one area, the game is not designed to handle that many players in the same instance at the same time.

Again, we can tell you don't play WoW.

[Thestrawman]

Just refer to my earlier comment on this one. Kenn plays a different version of SC than everyone else.

I would say all of Kenny's claims make complete sense of he had never played the game before. Makes it really easy to never see low fps or bugs if you've never launched the game before.

[Elim Garak]

Each realm in WoW is split into many servers that split up the playerbase, WoW doesn't have server meshing at all either it has static servers that waste a ton of resources running a handful of players, in WoW you can see player disappear when going into some zones because you are jumping into a different server, if they were meshed together you would always be able to see other players even switching servers.

WoW runs like crap with more than a raid team size in one area, the game is not designed to handle that many players in the same instance at the same time.

If you don't know what server meshing is for in SC just say so.
Players disappearing in WoW is one of these things:
1. Log off
2. Summoned
3. LFD/LFR Queue success
4. Phasing
5. Switching instance manually
6. Switching instance by grouping

You don't see players disappearing by going into new zones (unless it's one of the above).

Server Meshing in SC is for persistency of data. Not for all players to be in one place at the same time. Because that would be the same problem as with one BIG server. All those small 50 player servers will have to talk to each other. At the same time. It will lag. Just look at EVE. Huge battles, thousands of players, Yuge Lag. But EVE can work with that because it's a strategy game. Like Homeworld. You don't control the ship directly. The server just executes the queued commands in a timely fashion.

In SC all will be lagging you won't be able to play.

You will never see thousands of people in SC in one place. But you might see the garbage they left on a planet. That's what the meshing is for. Persistent experience.

[Azadina]

I had over 10 server FPS with over 100 players last night, the game is running more than fine with being loading a ton of information all the time, Server FPS doesnt need large numbers for a server to work just fine, an alpha doesnt have to work perfectly because its an alpha.

As if it will ever be anything other than alpha. The ship has long sailed where they could have legitimately moved the project forward from alpha. For over half a decade it's an impossibility without immediately cutting any cashflow, and thus killing the whole project/scheme.

So with that in mind, how about we set the expectations higher on the performance front? That is not impossible to do.

[Gorsameth]

Ohh are we comparing WoW's existing and working sharding tech to SC's non-existent server mashing and concluding that once the non-existent jesus tech exists it will clearly be better?

[kenn9530]

If you don't know what server meshing is for in SC just say so.
Players disappearing in WoW is one of these things:
1. Log off
2. Summoned
3. LFD/LFR Queue success
4. Phasing
5. Switching instance manually
6. Switching instance by grouping

You don't see players disappearing by going into new zones (unless it's one of the above).

Server Meshing in SC is for persistency of data. Not for all players to be in one place at the same time. Because that would be the same problem as with one BIG server. All those small 50 player servers will have to talk to each other. At the same time. It will lag. Just look at EVE. Huge battles, thousands of players, Yuge Lag. But EVE can work with that because it's a strategy game. Like Homeworld. You don't control the ship directly. The server just executes the queued commands in a timely fashion.

In SC all will be lagging you won't be able to play.

You will never see thousands of people in SC in one place. But you might see the garbage they left on a planet. That's what the meshing is for. Persistent experience.

Its very clear you have no understanding of what actual server meshing is, server meshing is when multiple servers work together to allow you to always interact with other players without any need for them to load into a different server, in WoW this does not happen the servers are seperate from each other so you have to load into them to interact with other players.

CiG showed what server meshing does, it also dynamically shuts off servers not being used and only gives information about servers to players that are interacting with them in some way.

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As if it will ever be anything other than alpha. The ship has long sailed where they could have legitimately moved the project forward from alpha. For over half a decade it's an impossibility without immediately cutting any cashflow, and thus killing the whole project/scheme.

So with that in mind, how about we set the expectations higher on the performance front? That is not impossible to do.

When SQ42 releases the game will easily make another few hundred million at least, the company itself generates many millions by itself, the pledges are not its only source of income, 3 years ago the company was generating 15 million per year from subs and other sources of income so its not going to run out of funding anytime soon.

[Orange Joe]

Its very clear you have no understanding of what actual server meshing is, server meshing is when multiple servers work together to allow you to always interact with other players without any need for them to load into a different server, in WoW this does not happen the servers are seperate from each other so you have to load into them to interact with other players.

Please clarify what you mean by interact.

[Elim Garak]

Its very clear you have no understanding of what actual server meshing is, server meshing is when multiple servers work together to allow you to always interact with other players without any need for them to load into a different server, in WoW this does not happen the servers are seperate from each other so you have to load into them to interact with other players.

CiG showed what server meshing does, it also dynamically shuts off servers not being used and only gives information about servers to players that are interacting with them in some way.

Can't wait for real time 1000 vs 1000 space battles or ground skirmishes (that's 40x 50 player servers meshed together). Oh wait. Looking at the development speed, we will never get to test your fantasies.

Ever heard of General Chat and Auction House? Thousands of players interacting.

Oh don't say! The insides of a capital ship will be an instance for 50 players? That can work. But battles will have to be limited to 50 ships tops. Maybe 100 becuase by the time SC might get close to finished the technological leap would allow it.

[Ausr]

Its very clear you have no understanding of what actual server meshing is, server meshing is when multiple servers work together to allow you to always interact with other players without any need for them to load into a different server, in WoW this does not happen the servers are seperate from each other so you have to load into them to interact with other players.

CiG showed what server meshing does, it also dynamically shuts off servers not being used and only gives information about servers to players that are interacting with them in some way.

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When SQ42 releases the game will easily make another few hundred million at least, the company itself generates many millions by itself, the pledges are not its only source of income, 3 years ago the company was generating 15 million per year from subs and other sources of income so its not going to run out of funding anytime soon.

We would have more respect for you if you just say "You know, I don't know anything about the subject."

[Gorsameth]

Please clarify what you mean by interact.

In the world of SC Jesus tech you can have 2 groups of players on different servers interacting with each other.

So like WoW sharding except you can see the other shards around you and attack them.
And yes this completely negates the point of separate servers since now both instances that can see and interact need to fully process both sets of players causing the same load on each individual server as it would if they were one and the same.

There is a reason its jesus tech.

[Orange Joe]

In the world of SC Jesus tech you can have 2 groups of players on different servers interacting with each other.

So like WoW sharding except you can see the other shards around you and attack them.
And yes this completely negates the point of separate servers since now both instances that can see and interact need to fully process both sets of players causing the same load on each individual server as it would if they were one and the same.

There is a reason its jesus tech.

Thats the thing though. you can interact with any other person in your shard without having to relog. You can chat with them, You can invite them to a party. Do dungeons, quests. All without a loading screen or having to change servers.

[Cloverfield]

In the world of SC Jesus tech you can have 2 groups of players on different servers interacting with each other.

So like WoW sharding except you can see the other shards around you and attack them.
And yes this completely negates the point of separate servers since now both instances that can see and interact need to fully process both sets of players causing the same load on each individual server as it would if they were one and the same.

There is a reason its jesus tech.

It actually doubles the amount of server power needed to track the same entities twice. Or 3 if you count that replication layer thing. Plus all the added latency between the 3 servers. There is only 2 ways out of this obvious conundrum, either you just do traditional separate shards with their corresponding loading as you move from one to the other, or you have to significantly reduce entities and players in each server to accommodate for the extra amount of entities and players from the contiguous servers that need to be tracked, in which case why have two servers at all instead of just one handling just that and get rid of the useless added triple latency. Jesus tech indeed.

[Gorsameth]

Thats the thing though. you can interact with any other person in your shard without having to relog. You can chat with them, You can invite them to a party. Do dungeons, quests. All without a loading screen or having to change servers.

No. SC wants to interact with people in other shards. Not just your shard. 2 people, in different shards, seeing and interacting (which again defeats the entire purpose of shards). And not just inviting or chatting in party/guild/zone chat. But strait up me shooting a missile at you in a different shard.

[Orange Joe]

No. SC wants to interact with people in other shards. Not just your shard. 2 people, in different shards, seeing and interacting (which again defeats the entire purpose of shards). And not just inviting or chatting in party/guild/zone chat. But strait up me shooting a missile at you in a different shard.

I know what SC wants. I'm saying Kenn doesn't know what he is saying. Hence the importance of him clarifying what HE means by interact.

[Ghost of Cow]

They even made another "gaming world record" event

I love the low standards being set for this game by the very people defending it to the death.

"StarCitizen had 100 people! Online! In 2023!" (Yeah, I know it's also on a vehicle, but we've had large multi-player accessible vehicles in games since EQ at least.)

The YouTube comments are even better. It's like we've never had any online gaming before, judging by some of them. Literally people in awe that you could walk around and see other players.

The thing is, only in SC, could this have been possible. The foundation it is built upon is ground breaking.

[Surfd]

Can't wait for real time 1000 vs 1000 space battles or ground skirmishes (that's 40x 50 player servers meshed together). Oh wait. Looking at the development speed, we will never get to test your fantasies.

Anyone who seriously believes that SC is ever going to reach a state where that is possible is straight up crazy. The sheer amount of data that would need to be shared between those servers simultaneously to allow 50 servers to "act" like one single server while simultaneously also maintaining communication with the individual clients connected to each server individually would be absolutely insane. This is beyond Jesus Tech level of delusional, and anyone who thinks that CiG and their team of second rate interns has cracked this is nuts.

[Azadina]

When SQ42 releases the game will easily make another few hundred million at least, the company itself generates many millions by itself, the pledges are not its only source of income, 3 years ago the company was generating 15 million per year from subs and other sources of income so its not going to run out of funding anytime soon.

And what is another few hundred millions going to accomplish, that the previous 600 million did not? 6 million stretch goal was release with 100 star systems. Where are those? It's been 6 million and another 594 million on top. You're saying they're making the needed funds for 100 star systems launch twice a year from subs alone, but nothing has happened so far in over a decade. Instead, now you're talking about extra few hundred millions more. What's going on Kenny?