[Megathread] Star Citizen

[MrAnderson]

I haven't seen any meaningfull constructive criticism by the "critics " faction. Just the same reash of hyperbolic non-sense about some useless stuff pushed into to create a virtual drama or concern that becomes obsolete and forgoten after a while leading said critics to post go under only to come back when other "drama" arises. These are not gamers, these are drama queens that feed on controversy and cynic negativism.

One happy bunch that are having trouble aknowledging that games take time to make and that their efforts to break the hype are as useless as ever.

[quras]

SNIP...

One happy bunch that are having trouble acknowledging that games take time to make SNIP.....

No one has trouble acknowledging that, games do take time.

However, this one is taking way to much time just to get to alpha. Thats alpha, not beta.

At some point, even you have to look at it a bit more objectively.

[MrAnderson]

It's not taking more time than any other game of this scope and ambition. That's the problem right there. That overal ignorance that 2 AAA quality games made from a company made from scratch by crowdfunding should be further ahead in development when even the big studios have taken as much time in way less ambitious projects.

Star Citizen has no need to cut content for the sake of rushing it's develoment. If you are not ready to gamble and wait dont back crowdfunded stuff. Wait for release like you would do with anything else.

Feel free to look up other games in develoment and the time of announcement, scope, initial plans vs now, eta etc:

- Death stranding
- Shenmue
- Kingdom Come Deliverance
- Cyberpunk 2277
- Crowfall
- Camelot Unchained
- Pantheon
- Shroud of Avatar
- Beyound Good & Evil 2

And many many more examples that critics simply choose to ignore because it debunks the reasons they claim to attack Star Citizen and it's management.

The thing is that this is a truly ambitious and complex title, theres no easy way to do it. If i was easy it would have been done by now by EA or Activision and they would be playing it instead of intoxicating the foruns with the same nonsense for 3 years in a row.

Every year they find excuses to complain about Star Citizen. By now tt's just a hobbie , their only one it seems.
Next year will be the same. The only question is what drama spiel they will hang on to next for their "total colapse" narrative.

Tune in for the next episodes.

[quras]

SNIP...

Every year they find excuses to complain about Star Citizen.

Because it seems every year SC finds a reason to push back the game. As stated, content creep is a problem in SC. It's like they have no goal, so they never have to reach a goal and can just keep asking for more money.

It is a crowdfunded game but one I'm not encouraged to support due to their actions. Not because the game doesn't look good. It's because the end is no where in site after 5 years and millions.

Hell, all the other games you mentioned are nothing like this one when it come to the questions of when will it actually launch? When will beta be here much less gold.

By now tt's just a hobbie , their only one it seems.
Next year will be the same. The only question is what drama spiel they will hang on to next for their "total colapse" narrative.

By now, the only people with a hobby is cig. They have become very comfortable pushing this game back while hoping the money continues to roll in. Thanks for letting me see that. It has become a very good hobby for them.

Next year will be the same I'm sure of it. Oh we're adding this now. We are still in alpha but oh well. At some point they have to create a goal. Reach that, get the game to a releasable state and then consider DLC for all the other added things they want to put in but I feel they never want to reach that because it has a chance to hinder the flow of money and well greed stops them from moving to a real release.

[KyrtF]

Why does it always have to resort to blissful ignorance with the haters?

Are you implying CIG can do no wrong?

Why is it that ANY criticism...no matter how justified or correct...is tje work of "haters"?

So you are saying that 5 years of work are fully represented by the 3.0 alpha build alone? Is that it?

No....think about what CIG have managed.

After five years of development, they have still to produce a feature complete engine. Other teams manage to create such engines in two or three years. CIG is heading for six and they are still missing critical features without which the planned game will not work.

AND it's building a game AT THE SAME TIME making the entire development process so much more complex and expensive. If you want an analogy, CIG are building a house and trying to build the foundations after the walls have been erected. It's technically doable but it's still going to be a lot more complex and a lot more expensive.

Do you not think this is worthy of criticism? I do.

Knowing damn well that 5 years ago there was no studio, there were no 100+ Millions of dollars, there were no Cryengine guys with PG tech, the game or the project as a whole has changed considerably since it's announcement, so why the need to constantly be spilling bullshit like that again and again, it's almost like you guys are proud of being disingenuous. It's laughable and sad that so called "gamers" could spill such a hateful and ignorant campaign. Just because a game company is taking it's time lol

So what? Really.

CIG are not the first company to be set up to develop a game. But you seem to believe developers are intimately involved with HR issues. Which is wrong. They aren't.

If your argument is that Chris Roberts couldn't handle HR problems experienced by just about every development team in existence, then you are agreeing he is an incompetent.

Small teams...big teams...teams at established devs...new development teams....they ALL have HR issues. A good manager accounts for turnover in his projections. If your argument is that Chris Roberts cannot handle even this simple task, then you're simply agreeing he is incompetent and unfit to run this project.

Cyberpunk 2277 has been in development for 5 years then, what has been shown ? Gameplay? What is known about it?
Beyond Good & Evil 2 , in development for 7?8? 9 years... What has been shown about it? What gameplay ?

That is a bit of a disingenuous argument. We can see what CIG has produced after five years work so we can judge it.

Let us see....much of the planned gameplay is missing. The procgen system doesn't appear to be working. The content originally planned for 3.0 isn't there. The engine is not finished and is missing critical components. And so on.

Were this to be the state of play after two years work, it'd be amazing.

But it isn't two years work. It's five.

And that is what is wrong with it. Its easy to justify a AAA game being in development for five years or more. It's less easy to justify a AAA game being in development for five years when there is so little to show.

Where is the Stanton system? If procedural generation was working, it'd be childsplay to create it overnight.
Where are the gameplay mechanics?
Why are we still working with a twitch based FPS style point and click flight model?
Why is the engine still feature incomplete?
Why is CIG wasting time and money polishing a preAlpha when so much of the games basic structure is incomplete?

CIG are already having to rework assets and ships. That is work it should NOT be doing. There is too much potential for change as the base structure develops....resulting in what we see now.

Previous work being thrown away. And you don't believe this is worthy of criticism?

What CIG have produced is something I would expect to see after about 2 or 3 years of development...not five. By now, the engine should be feature complete, the basic gameplay and game mechanics should be in the game and CIG should be ready to start work on actual game content....all those handcrafted systems and planets.

Instead...we get Chris Roberts hyping useless frippery such as FOIP and promising us VOIP systems when he doesn't have the games netcode or server code in place at a time when even CIGs own devs are stating the engine is working beyond its limits.

To me...these are decisions that should be criticised because they show a woeful disregard for the ability to prioritise. We see what Chris Roberts previous teams have complained about...that to Chris Roberts, shoelaces are as important as actual gameplay.

That isn't a good quality for a project manager to have.

All while building the Single Player campaign at the same time:

Which isn't that difficult when you consider its effectively the same game with the same engine and the same modules without the MMO element.

Not what I'd call an impressive feat. And even then, it has performance issues.

It's like people turn on "ignorant" mode and forget the real world around them where several other companies are also building games and taking as much time as Star Citizen.

Thing is....other games, even those which take 5 years or so, are entering the home straight at this stage. This is the time when they are optimising the game...fixing bugs...finalising the polish. This is when the games are getting ready for release and the marketing campaign is getting under way.

CIG is still at the starting gate. It has to finish developing and creating the engine. It has to design and add the game mechanics and gameplay. It has to create the game content, create dozens of ships and other vehicles, it has to handcraft 100 systems and up to 400 worlds, it has to balance and create gameplay around ship based content, ground based content and FPS content and more. Much more.

That it has taken five years to develop the little it has is worth criticising.

I hope CIG are able to pull this off. Because my opinion is that this game can be done. It is eminently doable. With the right technology to prevent overloading the server, clients or network this game is doable.

What I am not certain of is whether any team under the leadership and guidance of Chris Roberts can do so. His record is far from pristine in this regard.

Except that it isn't, it never was and it will never will be, it's just game development as usual.

If Chris Roberts were working for anyone else, he'd have been fired.

Polishing a preAlpha build is not normal development.
Five years of work without the engine being finished is not normal development.
Five years of work to produce so little is not normal development.

What did he have to do? He had to produce an engine capable of running the game. Then he had to develop gameplay and mechanics for players to enjoy...mining, salvage, combat, exploration. He had to create a simple procedural generation system to create planets, moons and stations. And of course an FPS system

There is nothing there that is especially complex or which requires a lot of money or manpower.

Five years on and most of those systems haven't been created.

That's something...IMO...worthy of criticism.

And so is the Monthly report of last month:

So are the UK financial reports. They make very interesting reading.

$16 million dollars on salaries alone, never mind all the other operating expenses

I can criticise that as well....CIG, even with 450 employees, don't really have enough people to develop a AAA game. At least in a reasonable timeframe. But they have too many people to develop the game cheaply and they don't have enough of the right type.

That CIG has only three...yes, three...engineers working on their netcode is also worth criticising. That the other three..yes, just SIX in all - for an MMO!!! - are involved with other systems doesn't really excuse that.

There is plenty about the games development that isn't normal and plenty that can be....and should be....criticised.

[Aliven]

I think Star Citizens are a cult at this stage. At least MrAnderson thinks he is High Priest or something.

[MrAnderson]

You people are just to dense or unwilling to understand why making games takes time, you focus on what's missing and ignore what's already there.

What's the point about whining about delays? 5 years have passed so what?

Game is still being developed. CIG is still groing. Theres more backers than last year. More content to play tha last year.

What does crying over spilled milk gets you? What's the point?

Complaining about delays when what matters is the underlying tech that allows for the games future. Complaining about game mechanics that are being shaped and developed as we speak. Complaining about developing an engine so that it allows the features planned instead of cutting them and go with the easy route.. .

All your complaints are so dumb and baseless that it feels like I'm explaining this to my 5 year old, but he doesn't whine as much. Complaining about FOIP and other tech's developed in parallel by pattering with other companies and "concerning" about network....

Complaining about "only X" network engineers...hahahah another pearl from the armchair dev's.... They really think that "more network engenieers faster network".

Sure thing, let me join 9 ladies in a room, baby coming up in 1 month.

Meanwhile, years since the project came to life look at the panorama of Sci-fi themed games? Single Player Campaigns or Persistent Online universes.

What's there after 5 years?

Half asset games with the same old repetitive stuff like Andromeda, EA Battlefront joke, Destiny another joke, COD in space rofl. Games that you play one time and forget...

Small niche games like No Man's Sky & Elite? Nice in their own particular way but basically boring and bare-bones after all these years.

Ok we get it, you can't stand the wait, you whine, you are the reason why Games are made behind closed doors, it saves the dev's from dealing with armchair dev's that really really think they know better than industry professionals. People that make games for a living vs people that diss games as a hobby.

Yeah, let's al hold hands and kickstart a space game, much experts such knowledge. Very few space games. :/

[Yunru]

My biggest complain is pay to win mehanic.
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p...?product_id=41

I wouldnt mind if they had a donation button. But any kind of advantage that you can buy, ruins the experience for others.
I still play this mod: https://forum.egosoft.com/viewtopic.php?t=293490 , while waiting for this game to come and see what happens with it. But i dont give them a cent till the game is out, rewieved by trusted people and so on. Last thing i want to see is another hyped and bad game in the end.

[MrAnderson]

I see it as necessary evil. I too would prefer that an oil billionaire would give CIG a blank check to fund the game and everyone would start with an Aurora but that's never gona happen.

It would also turn a game into a race to "top" giving even more advantage to people with the most disposable time.

But at least the game has mechanics in place that allow for players to play toguether and be usefull with a basic package or a thousand dollars one.

You can only fly one ship. You can fly other people's ships. Even steal them.

A new player can hop in a server right now and fly any ship available.

Star Citizen is puting a lot of effort into team work gameplay mechanics for that reason. It has a large focus on direct social interaction and group play.

[Majestic12]

I see it as necessary evil. I too would prefer that an oil billionaire would give CIG a blank check to fund the game and everyone would start with an Aurora but that's never gona happen.

It would also turn a game into a race to "top" giving even more advantage to people with the most disposable time.

But at least the game has mechanics in place that allow for players to play toguether and be usefull with a basic package or a thousand dollars one.

You can only fly one ship. You can fly other people's ships. Even steal them.

A new player can hop in a server right now and fly any ship available.

Star Citizen is puting a lot of effort into team work gameplay mechanics for that reason. It has a large focus on direct social interaction and group play.

To be fair, I prefer the old gaming model of "the more effort you put, the further ahead you move". I simply never was attracted to the whole "Pay 2 Skip" / "Pay 2 Win" models where people who paid stomp people who didn't pay in PvP. That's the current state of SC dogfighting PvP too. It's all dependant on what ship you paid for rather than skill.

I say that as a working man too to give some context. I don't mind people who put more effort into the game being further ahead. If SC ever got out and was a traditional MMO, I'd even have taken some days off in order to get to play more.

The ship-to-player scale is also a concern of mine, by the way. We have way, way more ships than players. People talk about their personal "fleets" that they own and the ships truly aren't rare anymore. What was once spoken of as "rare" and "limited" is always sold later on again.

What's ultimately going to happen is this: People will simply stock up their ships with NPCs to play. The universe is aimed to be 90% NPCs and 10% players. The game will simply be an overly instanced, non-social game as things stand now.

[JCD000]

There's valid criticism and then there's the same people shitting on the game over and over. Kind of like the idiots who need to "warn" other about Vanilla lmfao.

[Eleccybubb]

There's valid criticism and then there's the same people shitting on the game over and over. Kind of like the idiots who need to "warn" other about Vanilla lmfao.

Then use the ignore function built into this website. Problem solved. You only have yourself to blame by not ignoring someone with whom you do not wish to communicate with.

But yeah we get it. Saying anything remotely critical is "shitting on the game". This forum is not an echo chamber. This forum is for posting opinions be they critical or positive. Simple as that.

I'll repeat what I said. This game being in Alpha for 5 years and consistently delayed is not normal. Does not matter what scope it is on. If anything half of the features in this game just look to be in there for the sake of it rather than anything interesting.

Not to mention the shady microtransactions that are in an UNFINISHED game. And no I'd say the same thing about any game throwing in microtransactions before it's anywhere near finished. Star Citizen isn't being singled out here. Any game that throws in MTs during an Alpha/Beta period instantly gives me a red light to stay away from it.

But sadly it won't be the quality that will more than likely cause issues. It will end up with a minority community that the devs will listen to who have the "game can do no wrong" attitude. They will cater to those people rather than listening to the critique and eventually it will backfire just like it has done for every other game that has listened to that part of it's community.

[MrAnderson]

To be fair, I prefer the old gaming model of "the more effort you put, the further ahead you move". I simply never was attracted to the whole "Pay 2 Skip" / "Pay 2 Win" models where people who paid stomp people who didn't pay in PvP. That's the current state of SC dogfighting PvP too. It's all dependant on what ship you paid for rather than skill.

Me neither, it diminishes the feeling of accomplishment but it's how things are possible now unfortunately, but as long as everything is accessible to players through normal gameplay is fine by me. Like I said, a necessary evil.

Having played in the early day's of the mmorpg private servers (wow), going against people that paid to get legendary and full arena set's was sometimes frustrating but also rewarding when you got the kill, because some classes/skill still trump gear. These people helped pay the server's upkeep and allowed many others to play for free.

*In a way this is the thing with Star Citizen, people paying thousands for ship's are enabling us "casual" players to get a better game in the process without having restricted content behind the usual paid DLC content format.

Star Citizen pvp is meaningless for now because it's not fully fleshed out or even balanced, I've been killed players in ship's worse than mine because they played better. The reverse has happened also in lesser degree. Until all types of ship's are done things will change a lot, after they tune in stuff it will change again, and again. Think WoW PvP and the ever buufs/nerfs of talent's, cooldowns and so on.

The main thing is that a fresh new player can join the game and team up with is buddy in a decked out ship and be somewhat useful straight away by assisting him in a turret, assisting him by loading is ship for cargo etc. There's no barrier to use the vehicles you find across the universe, that's the beauty of all this seamless freedom.

Even if you only have the most basic package you don't have to grind hundreds of hours to experience any of the content.

As for ship/player ratio they can sell more as the population increases the ratio increases. They deal with percentages not fixed numbers. They take into base population and how it will spread and how many ship's to regulate scarcity as needed per balance/lore.

[JCD000]

Then use the ignore function built into this website. Problem solved. You only have yourself to blame by not ignoring someone with whom you do not wish to communicate with.

But yeah we get it. Saying anything remotely critical is "shitting on the game". This forum is not an echo chamber. This forum is for posting opinions be they critical or positive. Simple as that.

I'll repeat what I said. This game being in Alpha for 5 years and consistently delayed is not normal. Does not matter what scope it is on. If anything half of the features in this game just look to be in there for the sake of it rather than anything interesting.

Not to mention the shady microtransactions that are in an UNFINISHED game. And no I'd say the same thing about any game throwing in microtransactions before it's anywhere near finished. Star Citizen isn't being singled out here. Any game that throws in MTs during an Alpha/Beta period instantly gives me a red light to stay away from it.

But sadly it won't be the quality that will more than likely cause issues. It will end up with a minority community that the devs will listen to who have the "game can do no wrong" attitude. They will cater to those people rather than listening to the critique and eventually it will backfire just like it has done for every other game that has listened to that part of it's community.

You're literally a troll of this site.

[Eleccybubb]

You're literally a troll of this site.

I gave you a suggestion to use the ignore list if you don't want to see others post.

I gave my opinion on the game as I am fully well entitled to.

I fail to see the problem here.

[Edge-]

Alright folks, dropping in with another "friendly" reminder to remain fluffy and respectful when posting. I get it, folks on both sides of Star Citizen are passionate about their beliefs/opinions, but that's not an excuse to be rude and aggressive in posting. If you think others are trolling or flaming use the report function and move on, don't respond in-kind.

[Malibutomi]

Thing is arguing about Star Citizen being pay to win is completely useless and dumb at this point.
1. Because it is not finished and noone knows how it will pan out.
2. Because it will never be balanced. What if i'm on foot and you have a Rover with shields and gun...what if i have a Rover and friends, but your friend comes in with a ship and blasts us. It will never be balanced and it shouldn't be balanced just like real life...if you see a much bigger ship you run...or you die....or you come back with friends and blow it up with a bomber. As long as there are so different ships (fighter, tanker, salvage ship, etc) they cannot balance it, a tanker will never win against a fighter. If the ships cannot be balaced then it doesn't matter if the other guy bought his ship or worked for it. Also as players start in secured sectors they won't be griefed by the ones starting with bigger ships. If you worry about the ones make money faster if they start witha big cargo ship while you start with a small one? Exploit them, if you see a Hull-C pulling in fully packed, the price of some materials will drop soon if he sells it there

[Jastall]

I'm in the Cyberpunk 2077 thread right now an people are thinking delays until 2020. Shit, it's almost like making good games takes time.

Except CDPR actually made good, polished games before so people have far more reasons to trust them.

[Malibutomi]

[Aliven]

You people are just to dense or unwilling to understand why making games takes time, you focus on what's missing and ignore what's already there.

What's the point about whining about delays? 5 years have passed so what?

Game is still being developed. CIG is still groing. Theres more backers than last year. More content to play tha last year.

What does crying over spilled milk gets you? What's the point?

Complaining about delays when what matters is the underlying tech that allows for the games future. Complaining about game mechanics that are being shaped and developed as we speak. Complaining about developing an engine so that it allows the features planned instead of cutting them and go with the easy route.. .

All your complaints are so dumb and baseless that it feels like I'm explaining this to my 5 year old, but he doesn't whine as much. Complaining about FOIP and other tech's developed in parallel by pattering with other companies and "concerning" about network....

Complaining about "only X" network engineers...hahahah another pearl from the armchair dev's.... They really think that "more network engenieers faster network".

Sure thing, let me join 9 ladies in a room, baby coming up in 1 month.

Meanwhile, years since the project came to life look at the panorama of Sci-fi themed games? Single Player Campaigns or Persistent Online universes.

What's there after 5 years?

Half asset games with the same old repetitive stuff like Andromeda, EA Battlefront joke, Destiny another joke, COD in space rofl. Games that you play one time and forget...

Small niche games like No Man's Sky & Elite? Nice in their own particular way but basically boring and bare-bones after all these years.

Ok we get it, you can't stand the wait, you whine, you are the reason why Games are made behind closed doors, it saves the dev's from dealing with armchair dev's that really really think they know better than industry professionals. People that make games for a living vs people that diss games as a hobby.

Yeah, let's al hold hands and kickstart a space game, much experts such knowledge. Very few space games. :/

Elite Dangerous did it.

Feature bloat is a real thing. There is a reason why, on every succesful project somebody step in and say "ok, stop. write ideas, they are awesome, we do this in sequel/expansion but now we need to actually made a game".

Also, 5 years is a lot of time. They didnt need to write engine from the ground up. They bought existing one and modified it for their needs. They have nearly 200 employess. They got 170 milions dollars, when they needed 1/10 of this?

So far Star Citizen is a study of overblown ego and poor managment. There is a reason Roberts only worked good on a short leash.

Also, are you account created only to defend Star Citizen? Do you post in any other topics?