[Megathread] Star Citizen

[MrAnderson]

Yes because you have perfect recollection of every conversation that has taken place here. Don't tell me what conversation to stay out of, I'll post where i fucking want, when I fucking want to whomever I fucking want. Period. It us up to moderation to step in if I somehow stepped over a line. That's it. That is not your call to make here.

I guess compared with selected recollection anybody unbiased will have a perfect recollection of past things.
Still, there's no reason to get restless about facts & accountability within the right context imo. This is something people should be happy for, as someone who so likes to bring past sentences of developers without a context and call for "accountability". For the record, and yours truly information the mentioned said user indeed made public the information of having spent 600 US dollars in Star Citizen and doing so because he was enamored with the project at the time of doing so.

There is a BIG FUCKING DIFFERENCE. You are N E V E R critical of Star Citizen, not once. Ever.

I am the most critical of Star Citizen in this thread, that's why I'm an evocati in the first place. Because I went the extra mile to report a lot of bugs aka I was critical and constructive about the a pre-alpha game in the right place to do so and I will be the first person disrecomending Star Citizen for anyone looking for a finished, released and polished gaming experience and recomending NMS, Elite or any other finished & released game instead.

But what you do (and the rest of the haters) is not being critical. It is, factually, being a hater. Because you (and the rest of the haters) are not acting with the intent of helping the project, you're doing so solely with the intent of harming the project and getting mad at people calling you out for failing at it because of a ever lasting grudge.

Yes because my posting here and there in this thread is me being unable to let it go. Outside of this thread I spend 0 seconds on this game, on its community or anything.

And I'm sure Star Citizen's community gratefully thanks you for that.

Sorry, this isn't cut and dry, black and white and so on. There are many layers to this.

No, there isn't. It's a game in development (like many others). Or you like it, support it and play it or you don't and move on to something you like.
There's no point in overexplaining an obsession to why you don't like something. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it by making it a long the text or fancy phrasing it!
It will always come out as petty crying from someone with a deep grudge.

[Kyanion]

I guess compared with selected recollection anybody unbiased will have a perfect recollection of past things.
Still, there's no reason to get restless about facts & accountability within the right context imo. This is something people should be happy for, as someone who so likes to bring past sentences of developers without a context and call for "accountability". For the record, and yours truly information the mentioned said user indeed made public the information of having spent 600 US dollars in Star Citizen and doing so because he was enamored with the project at the time of doing so.

Get off of your high horse, that'd be great, thanks! I'm sure you spend plenty of time going through days, months and years worth of old posts to find what you need. Oh...wait. You did that earlier didn't you? Digging up what, a six year old post or something?

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I am the most critical of Star Citizen in this thread

Ahhhh hahahahahahah You are fucking amazing! Most critical! LOL! You even missed the point entirely thinking we're talking about bug reports. No. That isn't what being critical is about, Jesus.

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But what you do (and the rest of the haters) is not being critical. It is, factually, being a hater. Because you (and the rest of the haters) are not acting with the intent of helping the project, you're doing so solely with the intent of harming the project and getting mad at people calling you out for failing at it because of a ever lasting grudge.

Mmmhmm, missed deadlines, constant lies, yup no reason to be critical of those things. Nope people are just here for a hate parade on the poor company that makes CiG. Those poor people! They need our love and support to continue to mismanage one of the biggest Kickstarter disasters ever recorded!

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And I'm sure Star Citizen's community gratefully thanks you for that.

Hey and thank goodness you keep your posts to this thread instead of haunting other ones. Thanks for that btw! /s

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No, there isn't. It's a game in development (like many others). Or you like it, support it and play it or you don't and move on to something you like. There's no point in overexplaining an obsession to why you don't like something. No matter how you try to sugarcoat it by making it a long the text or fancy phrasing it! It will always come out as petty crying from someone with a deep grudge.

Or I choose the option where I join a thread and discuss the disaster of funding that this Kickstarter game has been. I choose to be critical of their missed deadlines, their deceptions, their lies and lack of a completed game long after it was due to be delivered. Get over it. If you don't like it, put me on ignore or report me to the moderation. I've broken no rules though so you better go with option 1. Btw, I'm not going anywhere, so get used to it

[kenn9530]

snip

Delivery date was made irrelvant when the game was changed into an MMO with twice the amount of solar systems and a hundred more ships and planet tech. The game was never going to be made in less than 8 years at that point. The game was increased in scope up until 2015 so it constantly increased at the will of the backers. Your not a backer so your view is worth nothing.

No game ever in development can hit all its targets so your just complaining about an industry standard that can never be acheived.

What lies a game in development constantly changes, they have said on multiple times they will release something when its ready and if something is not right they wont put it in game for the sake of it.

I can not even recall you even discussing anything about the game, your just spouting the same nonsense over and over, the thread is star citizen why not actually discuss the actual game but no your just here to constantly waste your time complaining about a company. You constantly bring the thread off topic with pointless flaming of the company. Your posts are not constructive in anyway.

[Kyanion]

Delivery date was made irrelvant when the game was changed into an MMO with twice the amount of solar systems and a hundred more ships and planet tech. The game was never going to be made in less than 8 years at that point. The game was increased in scope up until 2015 so it constantly increased at the will of the backers. Your not a backer so your view is worth nothing.

No game ever in development can hit all its targets so your just complaining about an industry standard that can never be acheived.

What lies a game in development constantly changes, they have said on multiple times they will release something when its ready and if something is not right they wont put it in game for the sake of it.

I can not even recall you even discussing anything about the game, your just spouting the same nonsense over and over, the thread is star citizen why not actually discuss the actual game but no your just here to constantly waste your time complaining about a company. You constantly bring the thread off topic with pointless flaming of the company.

Irrelevant to you perhaps. I'm sure they gave people an idea when they put this up to the voting that you love to tout that "Hey, if you vote for this, prepare to wait 8+ years" Of course the game isn't even close to being ready so it will more likely be 10-12 if not more by this point. Being a backer or not is meaningless, you have as much as say in the direction of the game as anyone else now, which is zero.

Again, if you don't like my posts, report me or put me on ignore. If you do neither of those things too fucking bad. You are NOT a moderator (thank god or this thread would be an echo chamber). To be honest you're the one breaking rules by attacking me by calling me a troll or flamer.

[kenn9530]

Irrelevant to you perhaps. I'm sure they gave people an idea when they put this up to the voting that you love to tout that "Hey, if you vote for this, prepare to wait 8+ years" Of course the game isn't even close to being ready so it will more likely be 10-12 if not more by this point. Being a backer or not is meaningless, you have as much as say in the direction of the game as anyone else now, which is zero.

Again, if you don't like my posts, report me or put me on ignore. If you do neither of those things too fucking bad. You are NOT a moderator (thank god or this thread would be an echo chamber). To be honest you're the one breaking rules by attacking me by calling me a troll or flamer.

You seem to not understand when you add things to a game it takes longer to develop, no matter how much money you have time is required to make things.

An MMO takes as much time as required to complete, the company took years to build so extra time is added onto development, plus release dates are always subject to change whenever the company wants. CiG dont operate much differently than any other company and its up to them how they raise more money, the company itself has brought in 120 million more with nothing to do with the backers.

And outside investment was said in the origional kickstarter as long as there was demand, most companies would do this as long as it benefits them.

[masterblaster0]

A post from Star Citizen's subreddit gives a glance at why features are taking so long:

Everytime I read the monthly report I feel like CIG make it seem like Bartender AI is almost done. I have never seen a game company spend so much time on such a thing so I thought it would be neat to look up the development history:

September 2017: "We now have both female and male bartenders working in various parts of the levels"

October 2017 to February 2018 (Nothing was mentioned)

March 2018: " Finally, the Facial Animation Team was busy finalizing animations on various PU shopkeepers, bartenders"

April 2018: "kicked off R&D on the bartender and bartending functionality"

May 2018: "The team is also building out the Bartender character" "research was done on the Bartender’s animations to bring as much life to this NPC as possible"

June 2018: "the team worked with design on further defining NPC behaviors like bartenders," "Work also progressed nicely on ensuring that bars in future releases feature a well-crafted and intelligent bartender"

July 2018:"mission givers and fleshed out the Bartender" "Design Team further experimented with how to make a bar feel like a living breathing environment, instead of static NPCs serving and consuming drinks. The intent was to give the bartender and others enough character, life, and flexibility so that they can deal with multiple patrons at once, including the player, while looking as lively and realistic as possible. They also began building out the AI logic in Subsumption, started rounds of feedback with Tony Zurovec, and worked with the Narrative Team to get lines written for the Bartender and Bar Patron characters. " "Placeholder block-out animations were sent to the ATX Design Team for the Bartender character"

August 2018: "The team is working closely with Design on the Bartender to help flesh out the flow – soon players will be able to walk up and order tasty drinks from a believable barkeep"

September 2018: " The Facial Team developed animations for the bartender" "The home stretch is in sight for believable bartenders" "polishing their everyday behaviors, including cleaning glasses, carrying drinks to tables, and telling the player they’re busy when in the middle of an action."

November 2018: "Work also continued on the bartender for Lorville." "The team is actively working on upcoming mission-givers, including Klim, along with ship dealers, bar patrons, and bartenders."

There are more mentioned times beyond this time but the post can only be so large.

So how did we get from "We now have both female and male bartenders working in various parts of the levels" in September 2017 to the Social AI Team wrapped up the first iteration of the bartender in May 2020?

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen..._bartender_ai/

[MrAnderson]

snips

If you spend your time wallowing in the mud everyone's horse will look high.

Spamming a restaurant with negative reviews years after years wishing it closes down (only to see it thriving year after year) is not being critical. That's not a very healthy behaviour tbh.

You're so focused on blindly hating this project that you don't even realise your posting in the most sucessfull kickstarter ever.

But for some reason you care for it so deeply that common things to any game (delays, changes of scope) are suddently drama worthy to cry year in year out.

Crying about meaningful drama is not "discussion". It's just finding excuses to be angry at a video game year in year out. The good part is that it's not even a video-game you care about and yet here you are promoting it without even realising.

[masterblaster0]

Irrelevant to you perhaps. I'm sure they gave people an idea when they put this up to the voting that you love to tout that "Hey, if you vote for this, prepare to wait 8+ years" Of course the game isn't even close to being ready so it will more likely be 10-12 if not more by this point. Being a backer or not is meaningless, you have as much as say in the direction of the game as anyone else now, which is zero.

I am inclined to agree. In point of fact:

Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.

Source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...man-19-Million

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[...] and yet here you are promoting it without even realising.

Why complain then?

[kenn9530]

I am inclined to agree. In point of fact:



Source: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/c...man-19-Million

What you linked has no relation to when the game will be released, it just means that with more resources features can be made faster not that the game is still being released in 1 year when the whole game was changed, they were still doing stretch goals increasing the size of the game until around 60 million just after the expected release date of the origional pitched game.

Does it really matter how long it takes as long as its a good game, i would rather wait 10 years for something good than a half assed game within 5 years that gets shelved after 100 hours.

[Kyanion]

If you spend your time wallowing in the mud everyone's horse will look high.

You sure have a high opinion of yourself, huh?

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Spamming a restaurant with negative reviews years after years wishing it closes down (only to see it thriving year after year) is not being critical. That's not a very healthy behaviour tbh.

Get over it? If a restaurant rips people off I can post a negative review if I wish. Don't like it? Tough shit.

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You're so focused on blindly hating this project that you don't even realise your posting in the most sucessfull kickstarter ever.

In what manner exactly? Most money collected? Longest project to kick the can down the road?

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But for some reason you care for it so deeply that common things to any game (delays, changes of scope) are suddently drama worthy to cry year in year out.

Crying about meaningful drama is not "discussion". It's just finding excuses to be angry at a video game year in year out. The good part is that it's not even a video-game you care about and yet here you are promoting it without even realising.

Gee if only they'd release the game after X years, maybe people would stop 'crying' about it as you put it.

Yup bad press is press I suppose? Lolz. You just want me to go away, I get it. Tough shit.

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Does it really matter how long it takes as long as its a good game, i would rather wait 10 years for something good than a half assed game within 5 years that gets shelved after 100 hours.

Time does not = good game. See: Nukem, Duke.

They could take another 5+ years and release a steaming pile of shit. Then what? You can't see a potential bad outcome, you only see the good ones and the 'moar money plz' aspect of the 'game'.

[masterblaster0]

What you linked has no relation to when the game will be released, it just means that with more resources features can be made faster not that the game is still being released in 1 year when the whole game was changed, they were still doing stretch goals increasing the size of the game until around 60 million just after the expected release date of the origional pitched game.

These stretch goal features were, on the whole, meant to be additions that would be delivered after release, not end up delaying the release.

At no point was there an announcement stating release would be one, two or eight years later than the projected date due to additional stretch goals being added.

Does it really matter how long it takes as long as its a good game, i would rather wait 10 years for something good than a half assed game within 5 years that gets shelved after 100 hours.

To be fair, time is not an assurity of quality. A game can be great despite a short development period and a game can be awful despite an extended development period.

[kenn9530]

snip

Origional size was 50 star systems, but the 6 million stretch goal says they would give 100 star systems on launch, so thats double the size of the game to start, they didnt say anywhere that these additions were to be done after release of the game, and how can they give a date when they dont know when a game will be complete.

They are already proven they can deliver a good enjoyable space game just from the alpha alone.

Time does not = good game. See: Nukem, Duke.

They could take another 5+ years and release a steaming pile of shit. Then what? You can't see a potential bad outcome, you only see the good ones and the 'moar money plz' aspect of the 'game'.

Current alpha of the game is pretty good and i enjoy it far more than my time in ED so they have proven they can deliver a good game, just need to wait on all the extras being added and some polish.

[Elim Garak]

You seem to not understand when you add things to a game it takes longer to develop

Oh, we are past beyond understanding that. We are now at a point where people don't understand that if you keep adding things to the development process without ever finishing the ones already started - it's a feature creep that killed many a game. But since people at RSI are all seasoned developers - they know that, so what that makes them? Do I hear a "scam"? Do backers keep buying those custom ships? Awesome! Keep making those ships and continue expanding the scope so that we will never ever need to finish the development of those ships and no one can complain because we are doing what backers have decided.

[Kyanion]

Current alpha of the game is pretty good and i enjoy it far more than my time in ED so they have proven they can deliver a good game, just need to wait on all the extras being added and some polish.

K, I mean I'm glad you're having a good time, the sheer amount of bugs and complaints I've seen would suggest the game isn't "pretty good" right now.

[masterblaster0]

Origional size was 50 star systems, but the 6 million stretch goal says they would give 100 star systems on launch, so thats double the size of the game to start

With no clarification the increased scope would cause delays.

they didnt say anywhere that these additions were to be done after release of the game,

Yes they did. In many of the 'Ten for the Chairman' videos Chris often states features will arrive after release. These are available on YouTube should you wish to peruse them.

and how can they give a date when they dont know when a game will be complete.

???

This is project management 101.

[Majestic12]

You love projecting onto people in this thread. Who said they 'fell in love with the game'? Who said they 'dove into it to the tune of $600'?

If they are 'envious haters with a grudge' what does that make you? I'd point out your post history in this thread, but it has been well documented by others.

I did, I had an Orion and a Super Hornet. That's the account I refunded.

Bottom line is: Chris screwed us and now he's rich without even having to release a game. CIG only benefits from keeping the game in a forever unreleased state. We already paid for the game.

The truth is that Chris doesn't deserve Star Citizen as a project. He had the opportunity of a lifetime and he fucked it up royally.

[kenn9530]

With no clarification the increased scope would cause delays.



Yes they did. In many of the 'Ten for the Chairman' videos Chris often states features will arrive after release. These are available on YouTube should you wish to peruse them.



???

This is project management 101.

Its pretty obvious if you double the size of a game it takes longer, they didnt really mention anything about dates for the stretch goals, project management is not magic how can you predict anything when making a game never been developed before, there is no rule book in game development.

Oh, we are past beyond understanding that. We are now at a point where people don't understand that if you keep adding things to the development process without ever finishing the ones already started - it's a feature creep that killed many a game. But since people at RSI are all seasoned developers - they know that, so what that makes them? Do I hear a "scam"? Do backers keep buying those custom ships? Awesome! Keep making those ships and continue expanding the scope so that we will never ever need to finish the development of those ships and no one can complain because we are doing what backers have decided.

We are getting the game most of us have been waiting for ever since playing the first freelancer or previous space games, without ppl trying to make games like SC we dont really get interesting games anymore.

[masterblaster0]

Its pretty obvious if you double the size of a game it takes longer, they didnt really mention anything about dates for the stretch goals

So here is the thing. Would it not be much more easy to release a clear statement stating the addition of features will result in a delay, thus the 2014 date no longer applies. Remove all doubt, remove all ambiguity, do not rely on people to come up with their own understanding of events. That would be a logical way to have handled the situation, to get ahead of it as it were.

project management is not magic how can you predict anything when making a game never been developed before, there is no rule book in game development.

Which is where experience and planning comes to the fore.
At the beginning all of those involved had a history of game development. Thus your average joe puts his/her trust in those experienced people when they say this never done before game is something we can do and it will be done in three to four years.

[Elim Garak]

Its pretty obvious if you double the size of a game it takes longer, they didnt really mention anything about dates for the stretch goals, project management is not magic how can you predict anything when making a game never been developed before, there is no rule book in game development.

Project management is when you set a deadline (based on the expert opinion of the developers and feature scope and financial state) and a contingency plan to extend it with another deadline (things happen). And then if you can't make the game by that last deadline - you scrap it and do some retrospection, preferably firing the responsible for the fuck up.

That's project management.

Oh, there's nothing new in SC that hasn't been done or tried before.

Like even SWG had more going for it in terms of features. You could run around on the planet surface, farm resources, build your own spaceship (or buy it from other players) fly into space and PVP, oh and they had big ships too and you could take your friends/guildmates on the same ship and fly them around, iirc you could also let them mount turrets if your ship had those - like a Corellian Transport. And it was a PROPPER MMO. They didn't have all the features from the get-go, no, they expanded. The space part was an expansion.

That is project management.

We are getting the game most of us have been waiting for ever since playing the first freelancer or previous space games, without ppl trying to make games like SC we dont really get interesting games anymore.

There is no game. There's no freelancer in it, there's no Wing Commander in it, there's no tactical shooter in it - whatever they are copying.

[MrAnderson]

Why complain then?

I'm fine with "critics" or detractors as long as they aren't acting in bad faith or being hostile to being accountable for their shitposting or when called out on their hypocrisy and general own flaws, I mean this coming from people who constantly try to bring the accountability to a video-game company or it's dev's by twisting words or simply making up facts on the spot.

blurb

In case you haven't noticed the ones with a problem with the game in this thread are those who year after year preach it's downfall through the most absurd rhetoric's only to see them crushed by reality. So if there's someone who has to get over it's them.

I did, I had an Orion and a Super Hornet. That's the account I refunded.
Bottom line is: Chris screwed us and now he's rich without even having to release a game. CIG only benefits from keeping the game in a forever unreleased state. We already paid for the game.
The truth is that Chris doesn't deserve Star Citizen as a project. He had the opportunity of a lifetime and he fucked it up royally.

I guess you didn't knew what you were signing up for when you pledged a video-game kickstarter. I think it would be easier if you a bit of the responsibility for that decision instead of blaming it on others.

Chris Roberts is doing exactly what he said he would do. Make the game he always wanted to do, It's dream game, "not any old game".

That there's more than enough people supporting him all these years, watching how the company keeps growing and the amalgamation of features present in the game and making Star Citizen stand out and still being unrivalled hinders whatever issue vocal minority will complain about.

After all no game will be for everyone just like no movie, music, painting will be for everyone and that's ok, just move on and don't hold grudges about the ones who like things you don't like.