[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Henako]

If only there were people who could give out punishments for such blatant lies. Someone who watches forum threads to keep things from getting too out of hand. But now I'm just talking crazy.

I need you to check yourself. If Kenn goes away, that's half the zealots who keep this thread alive with their lunatic ramblings gone! I love this thread too much to watch it fade into reasonable obscurity.

[kenn9530]

snip

8-9 years is not an isolated case, TESO 7 years, RDR2 8-9 years including PC port, CP 2077 8-9 years, so a game takes as long as it requires to be developed, even with companies with thousands of staff, making a game like star citizen cant be planned completely, everything to make the game work has to be built, you are also trying to compare a single player RPG to a massive space MMO.

Pretty much every rockstar game has have a few years of pre development before going into full development, developing a game requires staff to develop it, it will never develop at a correct speed without the staff to do the work on it.

Or 2013! - https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...4#post40753134
Or 2015 actually - https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...8#post47654198
Or 2017! - https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...2#post50772832
Or 2012/13? - https://www.mmo-champion.com/threads...5#post51417885

You're just setting arbitrary dates based on whatever seems to fit for the current moment. So yeah, folks are going to point out that the "official start of development" isn't something properly set in stone and that given that it's a moving target per your own posts, that it's a fairly meaningless measure.

The game has been in development since around the end of the kickstarter but it cant really be considered full development until they actually had devs to work on it properly, there is not many companies that are built up and develop a game at the same time so obviously a few years would be really slow on the development of the game.

A game takes as long as it needs to be developed, its impossible to make it any faster.

[Kyanion]

Typical kenn, uses new terms he made up to defend the goal post moving. “Full development”. Give me a break. When they got the money from KS and started working on the game guess what that is? The game being in development.

[XDurionX]

The game has been in development since around the end of the kickstarter but it cant really be considered full development until they actually had devs to work on it properly, there is not many companies that are built up and develop a game at the same time so obviously a few years would be really slow on the development of the game.

A game takes as long as it needs to be developed, its impossible to make it any faster.

But when will it be in "full" development? And how develop-ey is it at the moment? 74%? 34%? 134%?

When will it be ACTUALLY developed and not just burnung through backers money? And, when will backers get finally GET the product they paid for?

[Shakzor]

But when will it be in "full" development? And how develop-ey is it at the moment? 74%? 34%? 134%?

When will it be ACTUALLY developed and not just burnung through backers money? And, when will backers get finally GET the product they paid for?

No worries, as long as there are job openings, the team is not "full" and therefore it's not "full development"! The perfect bs loophole!
Doesn't matter if they've burned through millions upon millions upon millions developing it up to this point, it just doesn't count!...
It's really fascinating how someone can be in such denial (or is the absolute perfect troll).

[Bugg]

I think the persons who are suckered in buying anything related to this filth deserve no pity. We live in The Information Age. All the data is there and if someone decides to ignore it, so be it, it's his/her choice.

[Triceron]

8-9 years is not an isolated case, TESO 7 years, RDR2 8-9 years including PC port, CP 2077 8-9 years, so a game takes as long as it requires to be developed, even with companies with thousands of staff, making a game like star citizen cant be planned completely, everything to make the game work has to be built, you are also trying to compare a single player RPG to a massive space MMO.

The difference being those games actually came out and were not in a permanent alpha stage with no beta or release in sight after a 7-9 year cycle.

Star Citizen has been in production since 2011 having started pre-production in 2010. We're already 10 years in and it's still in alpha. Even if you personally consider 'full development' starting in 2015, you're talking about a game that will have a 14+ year development cycle rather than 8-9, and that's only if they manage to stick on task. Thats not the case though, since they are plagued with delays due to micromanagement and feature creep

[kenn9530]

The difference being those games actually came out and were not in a permanent alpha stage with no beta or release in sight after a 7-9 year cycle.

Star Citizen has been in production since 2011 having started pre-production in 2010. We're already 10 years in and it's still in alpha. Even if you personally consider 'full development' starting in 2015, you're talking about a game that will have a 14+ year development cycle rather than 8-9, and that's only if they manage to stick on task. Thats not the case though, since they are plagued with delays due to micromanagement and feature creep

The difference is comparing a game with 1 map and limited gameplay options to a game with 100 maps and many more gameplay options, if fully established game companies can struggle to get a game out in 8 years why would you expect star citizen to be made in the same time or faster.

CiG had to be built from the ground up, do you understand how the game couldnt really be developed much until they actually had everything actually setup to do so, they also have to build everything for the game while other game companies already have what they need, development on SC didnt really start until after the kickstarter at the end of 2012, if you understand the size of star citizen and what game they are making you would understand its going to take longer than current games been developed so far.

[Triceron]

The difference is comparing a game with 1 map and limited gameplay options to a game with 100 maps and many more gameplay options, if fully established game companies can struggle to get a game out in 8 years why would you expect star citizen to be made in the same time or faster.

CiG had to be built from the ground up, do you understand how the game couldnt really be developed much until they actually had everything actually setup to do so, they also have to build everything for the game while other game companies already have what they need, development on SC didnt really start until after the kickstarter at the end of 2012, if you understand the size of star citizen and what game they are making you would understand its going to take longer than current games been developed so far.

I absolutely do understand, and that's why I'm calling out the bullshit in your statements on why it's taking so long for such a massive game.

You've cited technical/technology reasons. It's bullshit. You've made statements about when the game went into 'full production'. Also bullshit.

At the end of the day, the game of this scope and grandeur should not even exist, because no sensible publisher would front the money to create it. It's literally still around and kicking because they managed to pull in enough crowdfunder money to last a 10+ years on a game that's still in alpha. And the company itself is open to monetizing microtransactions during this extended alpha.

It's such a unique position that it simply can not and should not be compared to any other game on the market, because *no other game company* runs their business in this way. So even trying to say 'Singleplayer games take 8-9 years' can not be applied as a comparison to Star Citizen at all, because Star Citizen is not developed like any game that's ever existed before. It's literally a giant-scope game with big ideas, backed by $300 million in crowdfunding and 63 million from a billionaire, and is allowed to be developed for a good decade with no real release date in sight. What other game can be compared to this? Literally none.

If any game company had $300+ million dollars to develop a game with no investors to answer to, then sure they could take 10+ years to develop a game with no release in sight and plenty of missed deadlines too. It's just that we usually consider them scams or vaporware when it takes that long. By no means is this comparable to any industry standard. It's literally a 'what if we gave $300 million to some untested group of individuals who made a cool game back in the day and had em make a spiritual successor, but without any actual game plan or means to do so?'. You get Star Citizen.

[Kyanion]

CiG had to be built from the ground up, do you understand how the game couldnt really be developed much until they actually had everything actually setup to do so

Weird, never stopped them from slapping dates on the game. They kind of failed to mention that 'years of delays to not having a full development' in place thing in anything they've ever said since the KS. Strange. Almost as if what you are saying is bullshit.

[1001]

You cant develop a game without staff, many game companies do this and have a small team work on a project and then go into full development, CiG had to build up a company from nothing, that takes years to do so until there was a suitable staff level for the company the game couldnt be in full development, if they had 300 plus staff at the end of the kickstarter that would be a different matter.

So SC has only been in full development at most since 2015 with 263 staff, now they have double that amount. Everyone is judging the game to other companies that already had hundreds or thousands of staff to begin with. Building a company from nothing takes a long time and developing a game at the same time is much harder.

Still singing the same old song?

It's been brought to your attention many many times about how Chris was going to make the Best Damn Space Sim Ever with a skeleton crew while using numerous external contractors for the heavy lifting. That was how he sold the game.

It wasn't until the flop of Star Marine v1 that they realized the errors of their ways and brought everything in house. An idea they seem to have forgotten in recent years as they once again move to outsourcing their work to studios like Turbulent and Firesprite.

[kenn9530]

snip

What comes out of your own mouth is BS, a game taking longer because they actually have to built up a company and everything to actually make the game is just a fact, a small specialised game can be made with a small team, however star citizen is not a small game in any of its areas and a game of this scale has never been done so its also a learning curve to see what can actually be done in a game.

Full development on a game cant happen until it has enough staff to actually develop it.

Star Citizen is the game space fans want, that is why they still put money in and CiG is proving that is can make the space game we have already been waiting decades for since freelancer and games before.

[Cyclone Jack]

Full development on a game cant happen until it has enough staff to actually develop it.

And how many is that?

[Katchii]

And how many is that?

As many as it takes, duh!

/s

Typical vague answer that allows as much wiggle room as they want.

[Kyanion]

What comes out of your own mouth is BS, a game taking longer because they actually have to built up a company and everything to actually make the game is just a fact

Weird, how come they never mentioned this 'fact' when they kept putting out dates on the game? What you think is a fact is an 'opinion', dude. You're already on record lying over and over and over and yet you keep doing it.

- - - Updated - - -

Star Citizen is the game space fans want, that is why they still put money in and CiG is proving that is can make the space game we have already been waiting decades for since freelancer and games before.

Is it the game 'space fans' want? All of the 'space fans' out there aren't playing this game, backing this game or care about this game. You can't make some bullshit statement what ALL people of one group want, oh wait sure you can because you just lie because it is all you know.

- - - Updated - - -

I love this line that keeps coming up. "It takes longer because they were also building the company!"

Personally I can't wait for the, "Of course the game isn't out yet you naysayers. Chris had to take his yacht fleet out for training purposes, why are you all so negative! You're going to feel preeeetty stupid when you see your grandchildren happily playing SC knowing that you were this negative!"

It is kinda sad how many people backed this game years ago only to die before ever getting to play it in a released state and not this perpetual alpha.

[Triceron]

What comes out of your own mouth is BS

What part of my argument has been untrue, made up or blatantly false? Star Citizen is incomparable to any other game being developed right now. It's incomparable to any other game company in this entire industry, and that includes other indy developers and kickstarters.

Every time I call you out on BS, I am specific about certain statements you've made, like saying technology is the reason it takes so long, or how the game didn't start full production until X year. Those are easily proven as false statements. For me to say Star Citizen is in a unique situation that is not comparable to other developers? Well point me to one other game that is in the same financial situation with the freedom of having zero accountability.

however star citizen is not a small game in any of its areas and a game of this scale has never been done so its also a learning curve to see what can actually be done in a game.

Full development on a game cant happen until it has enough staff to actually develop it.

They had 300+ million from the kickstarter since 2012. Why did it take 3 years for them to start full development with enough staff? It took them 3 years to recruit? That seems like a waste of time to me. What do you think?

Star Citizen is the game space fans want, that is why they still put money in and CiG is proving that is can make the space game we have already been waiting decades for since freelancer and games before.

They're proving they can miss deadlines, have an indefinite release schedule, and monetize in-game purchases before the game has been released. Is this the space game fans are waiting for too? Ask yourself this.

[kenn9530]

snip

At the end of the kickstarter they had around 7.2 million, so they didnt have 300 million from the kickstarter since that only raised 7.2 million, they only hit the 300 million mark in 2020, so again your talking BS.

Leaps in technology also increase development time if the developers want to take advantage of them, so you have not proven anything i said false unlike your own comments have proven you to be incorrect.

[Thestrawman]

At the end of the kickstarter they had around 7.2 million, so they didnt have 300 million from the kickstarter since that only raised 7.2 million, they only hit the 300 million mark in 2020, so again your talking BS.

Leaps in technology also increase development time if the developers want to take advantage of them, so you have not proven anything i said false unlike your own comments have proven you to be incorrect.

So you admit the game will never be finished.

[Edge-]

Leaps in technology also increase development time if the developers want to take advantage of them

If you're chasing every tech trend and aren't locking down tech so you know exactly what you're working with, you're in for a very, very, very bad time. So if they're doing this as you say, and I have no clue if they even are, it sounds like Chris Roberts is still as awful as a project manager as he was decades ago.

[Triceron]

At the end of the kickstarter they had around 7.2 million, so they didnt have 300 million from the kickstarter since that only raised 7.2 million, they only hit the 300 million mark in 2020, so again your talking BS.

Leaps in technology also increase development time if the developers want to take advantage of them, so you have not proven anything i said false unlike your own comments have proven you to be incorrect.

Then you admit that they planned poorly and were marred by their own poor planning, constantly having to grow the team and chase better technology in order to meet their raised standards as the income kept rolling in.

You understand that no other game development company works in this way, right? That the growing scope of the game being concurrent with cash income for a game-in-development generally doesn't happen for most-to-all other game companies, and that it's usually the other way around where they start with a budget and it only decreases as time passes, not increases as it has had for this particular game and company.

What other game and company has shared a similar development cycle as Star Citizen? I stand by my statement that it's as unique as it gets in the industry, and no other game is comparable to Star Citizen where they can take a decade of development with absolutely zero accountability to any publishers or investors, since the majority of their money is literally generated through crowd funding.