[Megathread] Star Citizen

[Edge-]

Let's not link to outside, unrelated gofundme's and shit folks. Keep discussion on the game. Just because a SC player posts a gofundme and references the game doesn't make it relevant to the thread, especially with the actual subjects of the funds being either clear trolls or unrelated to teh game.

[- Zephox -]

Let's not link to outside, unrelated gofundme's and shit folks. Keep discussion on the game. Just because a SC player posts a gofundme and references the game doesn't make it relevant to the thread, especially with the actual subjects of the funds being either clear trolls or unrelated to teh game.

Holy shit you are actually moderating?

So every other bs linked here that was amusing to you was relevant but this one which are actually over the game as it's a discussion doesn't suit you?

Sorry for being cross here, but yes. Decide whether you are moderating or just playing along and doing something once in a while to excuse your title.

Should you want to moderate remove all other rubbish from this thread as well.

Thank you

[Edge-]

Holy shit you are actually moderating?

So every other bs linked here that was amusing to you was relevant but this one which are actually over the game as it's a discussion doesn't suit you?

Sorry for being cross here, but yes. Decide whether you are moderating or just playing along and doing something once in a while to excuse your title.

Should you want to moderate remove all other rubbish from this thread as well.

Thank you

If you have issues with moderation you're welcome to raise it with supermods/admins via DM. Otherwise, please stay on topic.

[Surfd]

You know, it's always struck me as a good sign when 10 years into development of a game that primarily revolves around flying space ships that the devs decide now might be a good time to, you know, re-work the flight combat system..........

https://www.dualshockers.com/squadro...-ai-mobiglass/

Like, the flight combat model should be a literal core element around which the entire rest of your game is developed. If you are making significant changes to that after this long, I can only imagine what they are going to break when it actually goes live. Assuming it ever does, of course, given their track record. It also makes for a convenient excuse too. Now they can just claim that any lack of improvement in the current flight combat system going forward is due to them no longer wanting to devote resources to a system that is going to be replaced / revamped in a future update anyway (and then constantly kick the can when the overhaul keeps getting pushed back and delayed).

[Val the Moofia Boss]

SC's space combat is a nightmare to balance. This is... what? Their fifth or sixth rebalance?

The main issue is speed. For gameplay purposes, the ships have to move relatively slowly, or else players will never be able to hit each other. But at the same time, the scale of moons and planets is humongous, so if ships travel too slowly then the game will be unplayable because it will just take too long to fly from a city to a space station in orbit. This was a big issue years ago and is still a big issue today with gas giants like Crusader, and that's assuming you are flying a fast small ship. God forbid you try flying a caterpillar out of an atmosphere loaded up with 500 SCU of cargo. It takes blood ages (IIRC at one point the Reclaimer couldn't even escape Hurston's atmosphere, it would run out of fuel and then crash, and CIG marketed that ship as being able to land on and takeoff from planets), and that's nothing compared to the bigger haulers and capital ships that haven't even been implemented yet. When SC balances ships to move fast, then you get absurd battles where a ship swoops past in the blink of an eye and one shots someone with no time to evade. In the last rebalance, CIG tried implementing two speeds: a combat speed and a travel speed. In travel speed you can't have your shields or weapons activated, but this created issues as even the fastest small ships could not outrun bullets and missiles while in travel speed, so you wanted to be in combat speed all the time so you didn't get one shotted out of nowhere. Radar and sensors has not been touched for many years, so someone can zip into detection range and kill you before you have a chance to react and start powering up your shields.

[Gorsameth]

Gee almost as if space is massive and realistic fights would involve throwing missiles and waiting an hour before they impact. Not the dogfights we see in movies.

Realistic distances and speeds combined with dogfights simply doesn't mix well.

[Thestrawman]

Gee almost as if space is massive and realistic fights would involve throwing missiles and waiting an hour before they impact. Not the dogfights we see in movies.

Realistic distances and speeds combined with dogfights simply doesn't mix well.

I know when I envision a game set in space with interstellar travel my main concern is always realism. /s

[Henako]

I know when I envision a game set in space with interstellar travel my main concern is always realism. /s

Isn't hyper realism one of the game's founding pillars? It's billed as a simulator, is it not? Or is that just something the community uses to defend all the time wastes built into the game?

[Gorsameth]

I know when I envision a game set in space with interstellar travel my main concern is always realism. /s

I don't care about realistic distances and speeds either but SC wants accurately scaled systems and then you get these sorts of problems.

[Jastall]

Isn't hyper realism one of the game's founding pillars? It's billed as a simulator, is it not? Or is that just something the community uses to defend all the time wastes built into the game?

It is, but every game has to make concessions to realism if it wants to be fun, much like even more hardcore medieval warfare simulators have more things happening during sieges than players sitting in a castle or ditch for literal months if not years waiting for something to happen, AKA how sieges actually worked instead of the dramatic frontal assaults depicted in the vast majority of media.

But SC is a game that is designed around the idea of having your cake and eating it too, so no surprise they'd try to actually, no-memes try to realistically work out something that does not exist.

[Xeenith]

It is, but every game has to make concessions to realism if it wants to be fun, much like even more hardcore medieval warfare simulators have more things happening during sieges than players sitting in a castle or ditch for literal months if not years waiting for something to happen, AKA how sieges actually worked instead of the dramatic frontal assaults depicted in the vast majority of media.

But SC is a game that is designed around the idea of having your cake and eating it too, so no surprise they'd try to actually, no-memes try to realistically work out something that does not exist.

they already do, they sell a game that is never going to be "released" while paying themselves premium salaries

[Surfd]

SC's space combat is a nightmare to balance. This is... what? Their fifth or sixth rebalance?

The main issue is speed. For gameplay purposes, the ships have to move relatively slowly, or else players will never be able to hit each other. But at the same time, the scale of moons and planets is humongous, so if ships travel too slowly then the game will be unplayable because it will just take too long to fly from a city to a space station in orbit. This was a big issue years ago and is still a big issue today with gas giants like Crusader, and that's assuming you are flying a fast small ship. God forbid you try flying a caterpillar out of an atmosphere loaded up with 500 SCU of cargo. It takes blood ages (IIRC at one point the Reclaimer couldn't even escape Hurston's atmosphere, it would run out of fuel and then crash, and CIG marketed that ship as being able to land on and takeoff from planets), and that's nothing compared to the bigger haulers and capital ships that haven't even been implemented yet. When SC balances ships to move fast, then you get absurd battles where a ship swoops past in the blink of an eye and one shots someone with no time to evade. In the last rebalance, CIG tried implementing two speeds: a combat speed and a travel speed. In travel speed you can't have your shields or weapons activated, but this created issues as even the fastest small ships could not outrun bullets and missiles while in travel speed, so you wanted to be in combat speed all the time so you didn't get one shotted out of nowhere. Radar and sensors has not been touched for many years, so someone can zip into detection range and kill you before you have a chance to react and start powering up your shields.

Yeah, and that's the thing: these are all things that a competent developer who actually understood how to develop a Space Flight based game should have already accounted for in their initial design stages. The fact that, as you mentioned, they actually did things like go "live" with ships that couldn't even fly out of planetary gravity wells without running out of fuel or took multiple re-balances to even figure out that "WW2 Era Atmospheric Dogfight" style combat does not mesh well with "realistic distances" sized space and the need for your ships to be able to reach speeds realistically capable of travelling those distances basically screams "we are in over our head winging this stuff".

Like, yes, I realize Chris made a name for himself back in the day with Wing Commander, but you have to realize that for all the sci-fi trappings, Wing Commander was still basically a WW2 dogfight game with a fancy coat of paint. The fact that almost all space combat games haven't evolved beyond that point, even to this day, is kind of silly. "Realistic" space combat is not going to be dogfights, but here we are, 30 years later, still milking that model because it's the most "fun", realism be damned.

- - - Updated - - -

Gee almost as if space is massive and realistic fights would involve throwing missiles and waiting an hour before they impact. Not the dogfights we see in movies.

Realistic distances and speeds combined with dogfights simply doesn't mix well.

Atmospheric Flight Model based Dogfight Combat in Space is probably one of the things that bugs me the most any time I see it in Sci-Fi stuff. Like, sorry, I know it's fun to watch and all, but that's just not how shit would actually happen, and every time I see it it just keeps reminding me that 90% of movie / TV directors still shoot everything involving "aircraft" as if they are filming a WW2 movie or the next Top Gun (looking at you, absolutely fucking ridiculous literal "bombing run" on a Star Destroyer in the recent Starwars movie).

So far, I think the best representation of what actual Space Combat would be like is probably The Expanse, though Babylon 5 did make a relatively decent effort to challenge the established dogma back in the early days.

[Amorac]

Gee almost as if space is massive and realistic fights would involve throwing missiles and waiting an hour before they impact. Not the dogfights we see in movies.

Realistic distances and speeds combined with dogfights simply doesn't mix well.

You might want to check out Frontier (Elite II) from ~1994 and its Newtonian "close combat". (Still arcade like combat kinda sorta)

[Henako]

So, a thought occurred to me today.

I see so, so many people ragging on CP 2077 as a defense of this game, but just look at the PU. Look at what they've put in front of their customers for a decade now, and consider these same people are making SQ42.

In what world is SQ42 going to function at launch?

[Val the Moofia Boss]

In what world is SQ42 going to function at launch?

It is highly unlikely that the "SQ42" as was promised a decade ago will ever launch. CIG has been radio silent on SQ42 for four years, and began banning people who asked questions about it on the official forums three years ago. If CIG had anything worth showing, they would have.

[MrAnderson]

Hey all! Star Citizen is Free-to-Fly Through April 20th! https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p.../3-18-Free-Fly



Don't let the Sim aspect, Open World PvP, Full Loot or Elevator deaths scare ya! Come help break the servers even more!

It is highly unlikely that the "SQ42" as was promised a decade ago will ever launch. CIG has been radio silent on SQ42 for four years, and began banning people who asked questions about it on the official forums three years ago. If CIG had anything worth showing, they would have.

They've always shared a fair share of footage and info about Squadron 42 along the years. Be it gameplay footage video or in the detailed monthly reports.
This footage is from the of of last years show:
Showed several gameplay mechanics along with SQ45 Maps/Environments:

- UI and object interaction
- EVA Push & Pull animations
- Locomotion/Traversal animations
- Grav-lev Trolleys
- Quantum Boost & Scanning Mechanic
- AI work
- Mobiglass UI Update

Also, the 9min leaked Squadron 42 footage showing environments, battle scenes, exclusive ships and characters of the campaign.

[XDurionX]

Come help break the servers even more!

Not that they needed any help with that.

[InfiniteCharger]

Ultimately the game is a playable alpha, which by definition means that a large portion of it is incomplete and buggy. No matter how they try and advertise it as otherwise, the game is not complete nor does everything actually work. The whole 3.18 fiasco just made that more blatantly obvious to everyone. Yet so many streamers and ads from CIG make it seem otherwise. With each patch they release they should state clearly in the patch notes this is an alpha and list the features that are stable and those that are not.

Players should not have to discover these things by trial and error because the advertising and streamers make it seem like everything works when obviously it doesnt.

[MrAnderson]

Ultimately the game is a playable alpha, which by definition means that a large portion of it is incomplete and buggy. No matter how they try and advertise it as otherwise, the game is not complete nor does everything actually work. The whole 3.18 fiasco just made that more blatantly obvious to everyone. Yet so many streamers and ads from CIG make it seem otherwise. With each patch they release they should state clearly in the patch notes this is an alpha and list the features that are stable and those that are not.

Players should not have to discover these things by trial and error because the advertising and streamers make it seem like everything works when obviously it doesnt.

But they do state it's alpha stage multiple times when buying, patches are released with patch notes explaining the major bugs and new additions and everytime you launch the game you need to acknowledge that it's "Early Access Alpha Version in a state of active development. Wether in the Live environment or PTU, bugs, service interruptions, resets, or errors may occur.


Some gamers are just extremely lazy when it comes to reading and then have a very hard time acknowledging their ignorance.

[- Zephox -]

Hey all! Star Citizen is Free-to-Fly Through April 20th! https://robertsspaceindustries.com/p.../3-18-Free-Fly

I mean it must be a massive stress test for them to request people to provide feedback for the login screens should they even arrive there.

But hey every developer has its own metrics and looking at 3.18 probably they were stress testing how much bad press and how many complaints they would get even on the official forums for the update.

Hey they can always aim lower with 3.18.1 and take it from there.

I am always wondering, how much are you getting paid to shill? You disappeared with the 3.18 release(Probably you ''were playing hardcore omg'' with the other 2-3 people managing to log in) and yet just before a sale you show up again.

Now we need ProSkill to start buying again ships and complaining when sales going to happen so he buys more and can't play either because of servers or his PC ram and kenn showing up and the circus complete.(Do note Proskill, love you to death and nothing personal but it's part of the whole giggling charade and even though you are not even remotely close to the level of absurdiness those two got, unfortunately you help out at times being part of the ''joke''.