Fire Mage Guide

[Pyromelter]

Glyphed Combust for garrosh or non glyphed? Trying to decide cause of adds and stuff?

Glyphed. You're not going to waste a combust on a MC or small add in intermission of phase 2-3, and you'll pad the meters better if you have a huge 'bustion on the pull and spread that, instead of smaller combustions.

The better ST damage on garrosh himself is worth it over whatever possible cleave you may get on adds.

The only time you unglyph combustion is when you need that little burst every 45 seconds, and that's only been a few encounters this entire expansion (Megeara and Tortos are the only 2 I think I bothered to unglyph).

There's maybe a case for unglyphing combustion on Immersus, but really that fight is so easy it's probably not worth it either. Every other SoO boss always glyphed combustion. There's no turtle-shell mechanic like tortos in SoO.

[Psychokwak]

IMHO glyphed.

In my guild, 1) there are melting like snowman in the sun, 2) there are plenty of really better classes to do the lololol AoE fiesta. Sure it's good to have a good Combu spreading to adds, but is it necessary (literally, because you are really lacking DpS on the adds) and is it going to happen often (answer to that is no) ?
Even at the pull when you'll have a perfectly built Combu, also every DpS in your raid is Procing and using its CD, so no time to spread it to all the targets and no time for its full duration.
What counts is Garrosh DpS, especially because there is only 1 phase with adds to be AoEd.

Have Combu unglyphed make it easier to use, with a decision tree less difficult to follow since there's less impact if you suck at building it.

I feel your question is like choosing LB or NT for this fight since you can put it on every adds. It's not needed, nor effective DpS speaking (on the adds first, on Garrosh second), and last but not least, there are only in phase 1.

[MrExcelion]

Quick trinket question - Did anyone ever make a full trinket ranking? I notice the method thread is littered with trinket questions but can't find a full list anywhere. Just wanted to see how the different versions of Black Blood stacked up vs Toxic Totem.

Thanks a bunch.

[Deleted]

Quick trinket question - Did anyone ever make a full trinket ranking? I notice the method thread is littered with trinket questions but can't find a full list anywhere. Just wanted to see how the different versions of Black Blood stacked up vs Toxic Totem.

Thanks a bunch.

I do not have a full list. But the 2 trinkets are very close to eachother. However go for the one with the highest itemlevel or if they are the same BB>KTT.

- - - Updated - - -

Glyphed. You're not going to waste a combust on a MC or small add in intermission of phase 2-3, and you'll pad the meters better if you have a huge 'bustion on the pull and spread that, instead of smaller combustions.

The better ST damage on garrosh himself is worth it over whatever possible cleave you may get on adds.

The only time you unglyph combustion is when you need that little burst every 45 seconds, and that's only been a few encounters this entire expansion (Megeara and Tortos are the only 2 I think I bothered to unglyph).

There's maybe a case for unglyphing combustion on Immersus, but really that fight is so easy it's probably not worth it either. Every other SoO boss always glyphed combustion. There's no turtle-shell mechanic like tortos in SoO.

You have to count in Heroic Siegecrafter here though. Incase that you do the Conveyor belts, unglyphed Combust will probably make your time there easier.

[Deleted]

About garrosh, what many people seem to neglect is that the faster garrosh goes to 10%(ph1) the faster he stops spawning mobs, but he will NOT go into intermission faster it's on a timer
So the faster he goes to 10% the faster mobs stop spawning, the more time you have to finish off the adds you have left.
The only time you should worry about the adds is if you get so many that your tank starts dying regularly to add dps, and when he does start dying, start out by figuring out if you could increase heal output on him before starting to worry about the dps, they should die to normal cleave+ the iron star if you need it, though the lost dps from cleave while you bump them into the star and gather them up again might be an overall loss in add dmg for you, specially in 25m.

Also note the difference between cleave and AoE. cleave is when you still do "close" to optimal dps on main target. Make sure all the scumbag dps in your guild understand this concept, at least while you progress =)


Also for trinket, as liveet said, go for the Ilvl and not the trinket as the two are really close. Though you will get your hc totem loooong before your garrosh hc trinket, and even when you do get garrosh trinket your done with progress.

[Deleted]

About garrosh, what many people seem to neglect is that the faster garrosh goes to 10%(ph1) the faster he stops spawning mobs, but he will NOT go into intermission faster it's on a timer

no. faster p1 = faster in intermission

[Deleted]

no. faster p1 = faster in intermission

Explain why we have more and more single target time on garrosh(after heal) after finishing off adds every week?. The first few weeks we had the intermission timer on like 0-10s, now i dont even see it in my timers until long after the heal. And the fact that my ArcanePower always lines up with coming back from first intermission.
It is mostly the AP that made me "think" that it must be timed, because ap/at has always come back online just after we get back the first time, depending on how late immerseus trinket procced, it's online just as we come down, or after first weapon.

[Raggamasta]

I recently switched to fire (~47% crit self buffed, 564 ilvl) and I have couple of questions about the ST/multiple target rotation with 4pc bonus.

How big of a dps increase is the pyro + HU camping? Since 4pc Inferno Blast gives next pyro 100% chance to crit, using IB with HU shouldn't be a dps loss. And for multiple target fights IB should be used to spread DoT -s anyways, so it might even result in a dps increase.

Another thing that I noticed is that when I have HS + HU and I am casting a fireball, if then LB happens to fall off I have 2 options:

1. Wait till fireball has been casted, then refresh LB. In that case if the fireball crits I just wasted a pyro proc.
2. Cast that fireball followed by instant pyro. In that case I won't waste a possible pyro proc, but since LB dropped off during that time, I didn't have the pyromaniac buff and also my overall bomb uptime will be worse.

What is the best/preferred rotation for ST/multiple target fights with 4pc set bonus? I also read this thread quite a lot, but didn't find answers for these things.

[Deleted]

I recently switched to fire (~47% crit self buffed, 564 ilvl) and I have couple of questions about the ST/multiple target rotation with 4pc bonus.

How big of a dps increase is the pyro + HU camping? Since 4pc Inferno Blast gives next pyro 100% chance to crit, using IB with HU shouldn't be a dps loss. And for multiple target fights IB should be used to spread DoT -s anyways, so it might even result in a dps increase.

Another thing that I noticed is that when I have HS + HU and I am casting a fireball, if then LB happens to fall off I have 2 options:

1. Wait till fireball has been casted, then refresh LB. In that case if the fireball crits I just wasted a pyro proc.
2. Cast that fireball followed by instant pyro. In that case I won't waste a possible pyro proc, but since LB dropped off during that time, I didn't have the pyromaniac buff and also my overall bomb uptime will be worse.

What is the best/preferred rotation for ST/multiple target fights with 4pc set bonus? I also read this thread quite a lot, but didn't find answers for these things.

pyromaniac lasts longer than nt/lb, so @hu+pyro+(bomb ends) you fireball->pyro->bomb->(inferno blast if only 1 crits) else fireball...
on fights with multiple targets(garrosh and shamans) you want to cast more inferno blasts. usually i just try to get 3 pyros and use inferno blast afterwards to spread the ignite. i wouldnt cast a forced inferno blast on protectors because its only 3 targets.

Explain why we have more and more single target time on garrosh(after heal) after finishing off adds every week?. The first few weeks we had the intermission timer on like 0-10s, now i dont even see it in my timers until long after the heal. And the fact that my ArcanePower always lines up with coming back from first intermission.
It is mostly the AP that made me "think" that it must be timed, because ap/at has always come back online just after we get back the first time, depending on how late immerseus trinket procced, it's online just as we come down, or after first weapon.

well its always ~25sec after the heal.

[Squinty]

Afternoon all,

Just a quick question, N Black Blood of Y'Shaarj vs H Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance I have gone with BBY but was this the right thing to do?

[Deleted]

Afternoon all,

Just a quick question, N Black Blood of Y'Shaarj vs H Cha-Ye's Essence of Brilliance I have gone with BBY but was this the right thing to do?

I would say Goodmorning but yea
BBY is the one that comes out on top here. Especially if it is double upgraded. However, Heroic Thunderforger Cha - Ye is just like 1k dps from normal BBY. Depending on gear ofcourse.

[fearist]

Turned out I got zero gift of the titans (and therefore no chance to get power) and was never imprisoned (but I definitely did blink a few times to get the far prisons).

That explains a lot actually.

But for Malkorok, I haven't been very happy either.

worldoflogs dot com/reports/rt-5vwzif83ldqsgjuj/sum/damageDone/?s=3930&e=4147

238k as fire mage, putting me at 42nd percentile on epeenbot. With 562 ilvl, I really strongly feel I should be doing 270 or 280

raidbots dot com/comparebot/528073c174254e24330001e6#damage

gnomemage does shim ~3% high dps according to wowprogress so he should do a little more dps. But not 39k more.

Siegecrafter this week is the only one that I thought was "okay"
worldoflogs dot com/reports/rt-5vwzif83ldqsgjuj/details/1/?s=6779&e=7009

But then I'm still 10k under gnomemages, despite a shorter kill time.
raidbots dot com/comparebot/5280762a74254e14640000c4#damage

Is it just because I suffered a low crit rate on fireballs and ended up with 16 fewer pyro procs? I'd usually just accept that explanation but I've been struggling so much to keep up recently I am starting to wonder if I am somehow munching my pyroblasts.

Finally, Garrosh Hellscream.
worldoflogs dot com/reports/rt-5vwzif83ldqsgjuj/sum/damageDone/?s=8723&e=9264

I know Garrosh isn't mage friendly and I am on engineer duty. But 226k still sounds really low to me. Are there ways for me to boost that some more?

Basically, I'm at the point where I am unhappy with every fight on which I am placing in 50th percentile or lower on normal. And even on heroics I suspect I should be doing more.
raidbots dot com/epeenbot/us/stormrage/pyrodig/

Thank you guys for looking over this. I'm at the point I'm afraid to dig in deeper on my own. I just feel like I am looking for excuses (RNG and what not) others are outdpsing me instead of fixing my mistakes.

Garrosh is pretty mage friendly. last month, I placed 2nd in the world considering a lot of guild didn't down garrosh HM at that time, I think its pretty impressive. you just need to time your combustion properly so it can last on the adds, and yeah if you're on engineer duty your dps will tank.
In general you should be doing more, make sure you are using AMR to optimize your gear and study up on Vykina's fire mage guide for opener tips.
- always camp a heating up stack before you use pyro!, unless you have a lot of stacks on your 2pc already, in which case start playing more aggresive and doing everything to keep it up.

[brownies123]

Thank you for the response. When I compared my logs in my depth, what I noticed was my combustion ticks are competitive (aka, not really an issue with getting big combustions with what I am doing now). The bigger problem seems to be that I have slightly bigger deltas between heating up and pyroblast!.

This is probably caused by two things:
1. casting inferno blasts too much.
2. not camping for heating up as much as I should

I'll be more conscious of these things going forward and I think that will improve my dps.

Now I have a few more concrete questions to ask:
With both Pyroblast! and Heating up up, if living bomb expires in the middle of casting the fireball, Q pyro or living bomb?
Trinket proc, what's the best way to force Fiery Adept, Pyroblast!, and Heating Up to line up before alter time chain? I am having a little issue here with fireballs critting after I get an inferno blast up, munching a Pyroblast! or the inferno blast itself muching a Pyroblast!, then I am left with havign to force a crit with fireball/scorch.

[Methusula]

Thank you for the response. When I compared my logs in my depth, what I noticed was my combustion ticks are competitive (aka, not really an issue with getting big combustions with what I am doing now). The bigger problem seems to be that I have slightly bigger deltas between heating up and pyroblast!.

This is probably caused by two things:
1. casting inferno blasts too much.
2. not camping for heating up as much as I should

I'll be more conscious of these things going forward and I think that will improve my dps.

Now I have a few more concrete questions to ask:
With both Pyroblast! and Heating up up, if living bomb expires in the middle of casting the fireball, Q pyro or living bomb?
Trinket proc, what's the best way to force Fiery Adept, Pyroblast!, and Heating Up to line up before alter time chain? I am having a little issue here with fireballs critting after I get an inferno blast up, munching a Pyroblast! or the inferno blast itself muching a Pyroblast!, then I am left with havign to force a crit with fireball/scorch.

With trinket procs, the huge chunk of int you get will result in extra crit. You should have a really high crit chance during the proc. If this is used with a pot or engineering tinker/light weave proc, even more crit chance. I personally don't change my rotation at all to set up haste stacks. There is enough time on procs to build up a few stacks naturally before AT chain. There is of course an RNG aspect at play, but you can only do so much in that period of time. Keeping a high ignite is more important than munching it to game a stack of fiery adept.

As for your first question, the damage lost from munching a pyro proc is higher than the 10% you may lose from having pyro maniac drop off. That usually isn't an issue since the buff lasts longer than the LB does.

Edit: just realized Fiery Adept is the guaranteed Pyro crit. In this case, I have not had an issue. You see a proc up and see if IB is off CD. If you are chaining pyro crits, there is no need to hit IB and munch the ignite. So with Pyro! Heating Up, queue a Fireball while spamming Pyro. If both crit, there will be another Pyro! With HU. If one crits that is where you would use IB. You may need to stand a bit farther back if you have higher latency but there is definitely time to react to HU queues to make sure you aren't munching a Pyro!.

[brownies123]

Fiery Adept is the 4 piece with guaranteed pyro crit. I've been trying to make sure I alter time it to guarantee at least two of the instant pyros will be crits.

I agree on the haste buff. In my testing, there isn't much I can do since I can only cast 3 spells before it falls off. Getting 2 crits off that is not a high enough probability event I can try to constantly stack it, not much more than if I just went with my normal rotation anyway.

[Methusula]

Fiery Adept is the 4 piece with guaranteed pyro crit. I've been trying to make sure I alter time it to guarantee at least two of the instant pyros will be crits.

I agree on the haste buff. In my testing, there isn't much I can do since I can only cast 3 spells before it falls off. Getting 2 crits off that is not a high enough probability event I can try to constantly stack it, not much more than if I just went with my normal rotation anyway.

Sorry for my slow edit. Doing this on my phone atm.

Yeah I realized Fiery Adept was the 4pc (I always get them mixed up). The standard Pyro! HU camping works for me. Some people set up audio queues for Pyro and Fireball crits since you can react quicker to audio than visual stimuli. I Haven't needed to do that but my crit is really high atm and Pyro crits are almost guaranteed with procs up

[brownies123]

Are you saying you just wait for Pyro+HU+trinket to start AT? I've actually been wondering if it's worth it to give up time on trinket procs to force the Fiery Adept too.

[Methusula]

Are you saying you just wait for Pyro+HU+trinket to start AT? I've actually been wondering if it's worth it to give up time on trinket procs to force the Fiery Adept too.

Pretty much. I have Vykina's Need to Know profile copied so I see all the relevant information right up in the middle of my screen. Once I see a trinket proc, (especially PBoI) I just keep an eye on it and try to line up the Pyro!/HU and if I'm lucky, a meta proc or the other trinket. Then just pop AT macro and let the Pyros fly.

[Silvereen]

Hello fellow mages!
I have a quick question regarding best trinket combo for fire. ATM I have flex upgraded PBoI (548) and normal upgraded Garrosh-whatever-the-name-is trinket (561). However, I just got hc Kardris from a coin and I'm having a hard time deciding what to swap out for it... Thanks for your input ^^

[Methusula]

Hello fellow mages!
I have a quick question regarding best trinket combo for fire. ATM I have flex upgraded PBoI (548) and normal upgraded Garrosh-whatever-the-name-is trinket (561). However, I just got hc Kardris from a coin and I'm having a hard time deciding what to swap out for it... Thanks for your input ^^

I run with 580 PBoI and 574 KTT. The 561 BB is showing as a slight upgrade for me on AMR, but my multistrike damage % coupled with the huge consistent int proc on the pull, compels me to stick with KTT. Btw, for what it's worth, Vykina's Fire guide says KTT as well. http://www.methodwow.com/board/showt...-Guide/page266 post#2656.