Stop Hating People That Hate Daily's

[Deleted]

The developers don't come up with other solutions though. They swing from extremes and never learn to ameliorate or moderate their ends. The people who like the way things are in mists should be calling the most for the really moderate changes that many of us are asking for for the specific reason that I think it's fair to say all of us would rather not have them do some other extreme shifts or changes.

Dude, stop fighting this battle. I've been through it all, it was the same with Cata. People complained about the people complaining that it is too hard. Blizzard WILL change the rep/daily situation, it will come. And when they make a summary of what went wrong they will say they regret making dailies such a pita. You can quote me on that.

In fact, they already said that. They have said there are too much dailies and they take too long, the only reason they still went forward with MoP is that they had no alternative to slow people down. It will backfire tho, I promise you that.

[constantduty]

Ultimately what alot of people want is a PVE way to get gear outside of a raid that isn't dailies. It's been the primary way lots of us have played this game for years and it was a system that also had the benefit of being EXTREMELY flexible.

PVE ways to attain gear outside of a raid without doing dailies:

Heroic Dungeons
Crafting/AH
Scenarios (363 items occasionally drop, though rare)
Two Holiday Events at the start of the xpac rewarding trinkets/rings
LFR (Not a "raid" - loot tied to you and not a Raid Leader)
PVP Gear - Swap your JP for HP. Profit. PVP gear is absolutely viable. PVP power and Resilience on PVP gear do NOT eat into the stat budget of the gear.

Vanilla, TBC, and WotLK offered nothing comparable at their launch dates. If you wanted to gear up you found a group of people, hopefully a guild, and ran 5 mans. TBC eventually offered badge gear. WotLK offered some early rep gear and eventually introduced Dungeon Finder. At first you scrounged up Frost badges while picking up gear that was a tier behind.

Cata offered JP and VP gear at the start along with a handful of epic pieces from a handful of factions. VPs were gained on a daily basis, but eventually ou could blow through your 7 in one day. Outside of walking into a raid in t11 you could pick up 3 tier pieces, a trinket, a ring, boots, and I think maybe gloves or a cloak. You filled in the holes with crafted gear and rep gear. Epic (359ilvl) helmets and shoulders were not available outside of raids except for a very few world drops for a handful of specs. Rare or Epic PVP gear would severely gimp a lot of specs - especially tanks. Cata also kept shoulder enchants and head enchants tied to rep grinds. Shoulder enchants absolutely required a daily rep grind. Basically, Cata had you chain running 5 mans while wearing a tabard and at the start of the xpac you HAD to log in every day to do your daily heroic or you would fall behind.

Nothing about the above is even remotely flexible.

[Glorious Leader]

Dude, stop fighting this battle. I've been through it all, it was the same with Cata. People complained about the people complaining that it is too hard. Blizzard WILL change the rep/daily situation, it will come. And when they make a summary of what went wrong they will say they regret making dailies such a pita. You can quote me on that.

In fact, they already said that. They have said there are too much dailies and they take too long, the only reason they still went forward with MoP is that they had no alternative to slow people down. It will backfire tho, I promise you that.

I agree it's exactly like Cataclysm all over again. This community really is the worst thing to happen to the game in many regards because it simple cannot tolerate even MODERATE suggestions. I know they will change it, but i'd rather not have it take them half the expansion to do it like they did with the hard dungeons.

[Deleted]

Yeah except that you only have to do dailies until revered (not exalted) and it doesnt take months, it takes 7-10 days. If you want exalted for the mount and the tabbard then it takes 14-16 days. When you exaggerate you loose all credability.

Yea...maybe I wasn't really serious and just made up a number. I didn't state it as a fact. And yes, once you exaggerate every point in an argument becomes invalid.
Who made that law? You? I have news for you, even scientists do that from time to time to illustrate a point. All you do is whine about one little thing that never was the issue to begin with. If you notice someone exagerating, you should expcept that it wasn't to be take literally.

And how do you get to exalted with klaxxi in 14 days? And how much time per day can the average gamer have to do all dailies?

[Kevyne-Shandris]

No not at all and it makes me wonder if you've actually raided. Raiders care about doing as much as they can outside the raid to improve their game inside the raid.

Well sort off.

When EQ2 was adding new house leases as raid drops, the raiders went, "Huh?"

They're usually not interested in anything "fluff" unless it's hiring a decorator to decorate their hall, they don't actually bother with that stuff (unless it impacts performance). If there was a fishing drop that raised stats by 400, you bet every raider will be out there fishing. It has to tie in to their end-game otherwise they're oblivious to it (e.g., "You don't need..." while the same will fish for 12hrs straight trying to pull up a shiny, even though he doesn't need it).

[Glorious Leader]

PVE ways to attain gear outside of a raid without doing dailies:

Heroic Dungeons
Crafting/AH
Scenarios (363 items occasionally drop, though rare)
Two Holiday Events at the start of the xpac rewarding trinkets/rings
LFR (Not a "raid" - loot tied to you and not a Raid Leader)
PVP Gear - Swap your JP for HP. Profit. PVP gear is absolutely viable. PVP power and Resilience on PVP gear do NOT eat into the stat budget of the gear.
.

LFR is a raid. I said outside the raid.
PVP is not pve
Holiday events aren't always around and frankly relying on them is a bad way to moderate progression
Scenarios and dungeons stop being worthwhile pretty fast. About two days after I hit 90 I was done with them.
Crafting and AH is more or less the same as scenarios and dungeons they get done pretty fast.

Your list also forgot pug Sha groups but that's in a raid. Let me rephrase my statement. People want a PVE way to get gear outside a raid that isn't dailies that is higher than ilvl 463.

Tbc offered many of the options but more importantly "double dipping' that the developers hate existed then as it has in every expansion up until this point. Cataclysm also offered rep gear in addition to what you bought with JP and VP and I could do as little or as much of those dungeons for rep as I wanted to and as my play style allowed. You didn't have to log in every day YOU CHOSE to log in every day. In fact they changed the daily dungeon reward system so that you could still get the bonus without logging in every day.

The system was vastly more flexible for casual players and really raiders to. If I wanted to log off after the raid I could still get the maximum bonus by doing my daily dungeon whenever I wanted to and wouldn't be behind in any real sense. You may receive this reward 7 more times a week. Even that system was reversed for some nonsense fucking reason.

[Falkano]

heroic dungeons to 463 then lfr MSV until you hit 470.

Not really hard.

You could also get 2 crafted peices

Again that means you have one shot a week at loot. If You don't get any then have to wait until reset. If you want to go get items beyond that you have to do dailies.

As I mentioned before which someone above doesn't seem to grasp pvp'ers are not being made to do something they don't want to do to get their items. There are multiple routes available to them to get what they want. They are not boxed into one way of doing something.
Imagine if Blizz made a BG where you had to be a certain level to get in. Now to reach this level meant they had to level up through quests and do things away from what they want to do. They would not be happy. Why should pve'rs be any different?

As I stated in my 1st post I have played from the start. Did the pvp grind, did the old school raiding grind. The reason wow went into a points system is because people were spending hours and hours in game doing things without receiving anything. Anyone who did MC will remember how frustrating that was to spend hours just getting to a boss then being pissed off when it doesn't drop. So say you spent 12 hours a week in that raid and you didn't get a thing. You do that for 2 months and don't get a thing. IS that fair? Is it right that a guy who comes a long to one raid gets an item but has not been there in ages? The point system was brought in for those reasons. To give you alternatives to the boss drops, your time was rewarded.

You are rewarded for your TIME. Which is the main element to the game. Things take TIME. To now get into the next group of raiding requires a lot of TIME or LUCK.

People have said what solution would I do then and it is simple.... Each week you have a universal points cap. Everything you do earns you points. You do a dungeon = points. You do a pvp battleground = points. So let's say the weekly cap is 1000 points. With your points you can spend them on many things, so you can buy gear and you can buy reputation tokens. This was done in the past and it worked for everyone. Reputations will have the mounts and vanity items. This way you can get to your cap anyway you wish. You can do some pvp, you can do some pve, you can do some quests, you could do some proffesion things i.e hand in 100 ore for a certain amount of points and so on. This universal credit makes everything fair and means you are not forced to do something you dislike doing. Because at the end of the day it is about TIME and you should be free to choose how you spend it....

It really is that simple

[Glorious Leader]

Well sort off.

When EQ2 was adding new house leases as raid drops, the raiders went, "Huh?"

They're usually not interested in anything "fluff" unless it's hiring a decorator to decorate their hall, they don't actually bother with that stuff (unless it impacts performance). If there was a fishing drop that raised stats by 400, you bet every raider will be out there fishing. It has to tie in to their end-game otherwise they're oblivious to it (e.g., "You don't need..." while the same will fish for 12hrs straight trying to pull up a shiny, even though he doesn't need it).

It really depends on the individual and their particular set of circumstances. What I said is more or less true though. If their is a significant way to upgrade or improve their ability to perform their rolls that can be done outside of the raid raiders will do it. That is more or less the foundation of end game world of warcraft and has been for as long as I can remember. Even in vanilla actually I remember farming consumables for inside the raid. Although I avoided leveling bandages though, fuck that shit. Raid leader chewed me out one day for it though. Good times Good times.

[Purlina]

Are there actually people that like doing daily's?

[AeneasBK]

No not at all and it makes me wonder if you've actually raided. Raiders care about doing as much as they can outside the raid to improve their game inside the raid. Real raiders are always pushing for any advantage and always have been. The last time I saw paragons fury warrior he was using.. wait for it... Rep faction plate shoulders. They always do whatever they can to get as much advantage as they can. Subject of course to individual whims and restrictions and limits of course. That includes doing two iccs every week and that includes dailies. I agree that Warcraft isn't currently the game for many people but telling them that is the same argument that was made in cataclysm. You don't want that again, neither do I. Were asking for small and moderate changes to be made. Nothing wild.

The raiders who care that much about min/maxing pre-raid gear are a dying breed and have been for 2 expansions. Don't use Paragons fury warrior as an example, its just a poor choice. Of course they are going to be maxing, they are a world first guild. But atm whats happening is people are breaking their balls to get gear that isn't aimed at them and isn't needed to clear MSV which rewards gear in *most* slots and certainly enough to start the next raid which fills in the gaps.

VP gear is the pinnacle of the solo players gear, its not aimed at raiders. Sure the *dedicated* raider might go get them, most of the *dedicated* raiders also won't mind, its still a faaar easier grind than previous expansions have been. Don't get me wrong I've got raiders in my team who are frustrated because they don't feel ready until they've got all those VP rewards, but after I patiently explained that by the time they could afford all the VP gear we'd have farmed their drops from normal MSV they chilled out.

[Glorious Leader]

The raiders who care that much about min/maxing pre-raid gear are a dying breed and have been for 2 expansions. Don't use Paragons fury warrior as an example, its just a poor choice. Of course they are going to be maxing, they are a world first guild. But atm whats happening is people are breaking their balls to get gear that isn't aimed at them and isn't needed to clear MSV which rewards gear in *most* slots and certainly enough to start the next raid which fills in the gaps.

VP gear is the pinnacle of the solo players gear, its not aimed at raiders. Sure the *dedicated* raider might go get them, most of the *dedicated* raiders also won't mind, its still a faaar easier grind than previous expansions have been. Don't get me wrong I've got raiders in my team who are frustrated because they don't feel ready until they've got all those VP rewards, but after I patiently explained that by the time they could afford all the VP gear we'd have farmed their drops from normal MSV they chilled out.

No not really and again it varies from person to person but what I said was true. People will always seek to gain a maximum benefit from activities outside the raid to improve their performance inside the raid. That's just human nature man. They want to be successful in these raids, as successful as they can be because watching those big numbers pop up and those bosses drop is a fix for them. It's a hit bro like being on crack or being a wallstreet financier. The only other thing that is more addictive is the cheese they get as a reward from doing that. The gear. In vanilla the only cheese they got was by and large from boss drops. As the game evolved it offered them more reward and they got hooked. The two addictions just reinforced themselves. They got bigger numbers which lead to more rewards which lead to bigger numbers which lead to more rewards. Now it's going back to vanilla and they're not getting they're fix. Their frustrated and they want that reward. Blizzard KNOWS this though. I assume they have google and can understand what a skinner box is. That's exactly what this game is and the changes have really taken the illusion that it was anything more.

VP was literally aimed to help raiders fill out slots and combat rng. It did that and it did more than that. It gave them a feeling of reward when the boss wasn't giving it to them and they were getting frustrated. It helped solo players out as well but if VP was not aimed at raiders then why did it have to be changed? They didn't want valor to remove the importance of getting a boss drop but it isn't aimed at raiders soooooooooo.. what's up? In any event the solution I'm calling for doesn't change any of this at all. Simple removing the rep requirement from the gear will solve much of this as I never have to touch a fucking daily again and nor does any raider. The dailes really aren't a gate and people don't need to burn themselves out but that doesn't make it any better. The gear simple doesn't need to have a rep requirement. To an extent Blizzard as already recognized this anyway, they nerfed the rep requirement. They just need to take that extra step and get rid of it all together. I really don't see the harm in this suggestion. It is I think really moderate.

[AeneasBK]

No not really and again it varies from person to person but what I said was true. People will always seek to gain a maximum benefit from activities outside the raid to improve their performance inside the raid. That's just human nature man. They want to be successful in these raids, as successful as they can be because watching those big numbers pop up and those bosses drop is a fix for them. It's a hit bro like being on crack or being a wallstreet financier. The only other thing that is more addictive is the cheese they get as a reward from doing that. The gear. In vanilla the only cheese they got was by and large from boss drops. As the game evolved it offered them more reward and they got hooked. The two addictions just reinforced themselves. They got bigger numbers which lead to more rewards which lead to bigger numbers which lead to more rewards. Now it's going back to vanilla and they're not getting they're fix. Their frustrated and they want that reward. Blizzard KNOWS this though. I assume they have google and can understand what a skinner box is. That's exactly what this game is and the changes have really taken the illusion that it was anything more.

VP was literally aimed to help raiders fill out slots and combat rng. It did that and it did more than that. It gave them a feeling of reward. It helped solo players out as well but if VP was not aimed at raiders then why did it have to be changed? They didn't want valor to remove the importance of getting a boss drop but it isn't aimed at raiders soooooooooo.. what's up? In any event the solution I'm calling for doesn't change any of this at all. Simple removing the rep requirement from the gear will solve much of this as I never have to touch a fucking daily again and nor does any raider.

Whilst that made entertaining reading, you can be perfectly successful in MSV without any VP gear.

I'm not gonna disagree that VP gear, or rather Badges of Justice, were introduced to combat the Loot RNG that could be so unfortunate for people. That was 6 (7) years ago now or something. VP gear is clearly NOT aimed at raiders anymore. Or there would be more of it, an item for every single slot.

These days they are a gear carrot for the people who don't do group raiding. If you are a raider, go kill some bosses and quit whining, you sound like you've been doing it for years, it shouldn't be difficult. And if you've been playing since Vanilla surely by now you've found a guild that isn't run by a dick... ?

EDIT: This whole topic has been fuelled by the fact that dailies are 100% OPTIONAL unless you want to have reputation. NO aspect of the GAME is locked out by dailies. Some ITEMS are, no one NEEDS those items. They are only NEEDED for raiding if your raid is pretty awful and can't clear the start of MSV in 463 iLvl heroic gear. Or you have a dick raid leader whos demanding people have all this VP gear in which case the issue is your dick raid leader not the game...

[Deleted]

Stop hating people that hate people who hate dailies.

OR

Just stop hating each other.

[Orange Joe]

I agree it's exactly like Cataclysm all over again. This community really is the worst thing to happen to the game in many regards because it simple cannot tolerate even MODERATE suggestions. I know they will change it, but i'd rather not have it take them half the expansion to do it like they did with the hard dungeons.

You have been anything but moderate.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 05:01 PM ----------

Again that means you have one shot a week at loot. If You don't get any then have to wait until reset. If you want to go get items beyond that you have to do dailies.

Wahh!! You know how many times I have gone months without loot because it hasn't dropped. That is what this game is about. If you don't like that why do you play?

[Jtbrig7390]

No not really and again it varies from person to person but what I said was true. People will always seek to gain a maximum benefit from activities outside the raid to improve their performance inside the raid. That's just human nature man. They want to be successful in these raids, as successful as they can be because watching those big numbers pop up and those bosses drop is a fix for them. It's a hit bro like being on crack or being a wallstreet financier. The only other thing that is more addictive is the cheese they get as a reward from doing that. The gear. In vanilla the only cheese they got was by and large from boss drops. As the game evolved it offered them more reward and they got hooked. The two addictions just reinforced themselves. They got bigger numbers which lead to more rewards which lead to bigger numbers which lead to more rewards. Now it's going back to vanilla and they're not getting they're fix. Their frustrated and they want that reward. Blizzard KNOWS this though. I assume they have google and can understand what a skinner box is. That's exactly what this game is and the changes have really taken the illusion that it was anything more.

VP was literally aimed to help raiders fill out slots and combat rng. It did that and it did more than that. It gave them a feeling of reward when the boss wasn't giving it to them and they were getting frustrated. It helped solo players out as well but if VP was not aimed at raiders then why did it have to be changed? They didn't want valor to remove the importance of getting a boss drop but it isn't aimed at raiders soooooooooo.. what's up? In any event the solution I'm calling for doesn't change any of this at all. Simple removing the rep requirement from the gear will solve much of this as I never have to touch a fucking daily again and nor does any raider.

I'm a soloer myself and always said once i get my first ever LK solo i am 100% done with wow. I have gotten to 14% 2 times and the rest around 18% so i need every little extra gear i can get. Thx to blizzard they have slowed down my progress of soloing with this rep on the gear crap.

I have already decided that once my time is up LK kill or not I'm done all they do is try to gate players and then throw out stupid reasons for why they did it.
Those who enjoy daily's and the gating I'm happy for you. I was personally giving blizzard one more shot after the crap that was cata but I can no longer can i deal with it.
Sub ends at the end of the month and i would like to finally get the LK kill *Solo* don't see it happening with bad RNG and Rep on gear.
2 weeks of LFR/Sha kills and 1 Gall kill all i got was gold.......


/end rant

[Glorious Leader]

Whilst that made entertaining reading, you can be perfectly successful in MSV without any VP gear.

I'm not gonna disagree that VP gear, or rather Badges of Justice, were introduced to combat the Loot RNG that could be so unfortunate for people. That was 6 (7) years ago now or something. VP gear is clearly NOT aimed at raiders anymore. Or there would be more of it, an item for every single slot.

These days they are a gear carrot for the people who don't do group raiding. If you are a raider, go kill some bosses and quit whining, you sound like you've been doing it for years, it shouldn't be difficult. And if you've been playing since Vanilla surely by now you've found a guild that isn't run by a dick... ?

That isn't the point and you know. I could have been succesfull in Bot without heroic gear as well. Were you telling people upset about cataclysm heroics that they didn't need to do cataclysm heorics? In fact we were sucesfull in BoT. I stepped into that place with normal dungeon gear and quest blues.

Raiders are still killing bosses although in less numbers relative to the previous expansion. The point is that raider or not the same people are seeking rewards, their fix and they aren't getting it. Their chasing after it in dailies because they can see it but their getting what's called frustration aggression. They had the cheese in wotlk and cata and now it's being taken away from them and their naturally frustrated. This causes them to be aggressive and in online terms come to forums and vent let the aggression caused by the frustration out. It's why the conversation about this is vitriolic in many aspects although frankly I can't understand why anyone defending this system has any excuse to be indignant about the very moderate suggestions being offered.

I did raid for years in all the expansions but won't be in Mists. Theoretically I could fit it into my work schedule but it just isn't rewarding enough anymore for me to go out of the way and do it. In fact nothing in this game is anymore really. If you like Pet Battles I guess.

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 09:05 PM ----------

You have been anything but moderate.[COLOR="red"]

---------- Post added 2012-11-02 at 05:01 PM ----------

The suggestions that I'm currently calling for are extremely moderate. Allow me to state it again for the record.

1. Return the weekly dungeon daily to you may receive this reward 7 more times this week
2. Remove the rep requirement from valor gear

I feel those suggestions are extremely moderate and I've had other people tell me the same. You may not think that is moderate or that my posts haven't been but your welcome to your opinion on the matter.

[blackone]

The tabard system worked why they changed it god knows...

No it didn't, it gave you rep for something you were doing anyways, effectively removing the point of reputations.

[Jtbrig7390]

No it didn't, it gave you rep for something you were doing anyways, effectively removing the point of reputations.

They did what dungeons did in BC and isn't that what players have been asking for is another BC.......

[Glorious Leader]

No it didn't, it gave you rep for something you were doing anyways, effectively removing the point of reputations.

No not really. I did dungeons far in excess of what I would need to be doing if I didn't have the rep tabard. That is the biggest misconception being had by the developers I feel. It bears itself out in the fact that I only had to do dungeons for like 2 days (more or less) before I was done with them. In cata I did dungeons well in excess of my gear need for them.

[AeneasBK]

That isn't the point and you know. I could have been succesfull in Bot without heroic gear as well. Were you telling people upset about cataclysm heroics that they didn't need to do cataclysm heorics? In fact we were sucesfull in BoT. I stepped into that place with normal dungeon gear and quest blues.
.

If you were good enough to get 4/4 in BoT in quest blues then surely the heroics weren't too hard for you either? And no I kept mostly out of the heroics argument at the time, it didn't affect me because they weren't too hard *for me* and what do I care if they get nerfed. Think its a shame they did as now people approach raiding without having cut thier teeth on the most basic of group play concepts. But eitherways for *me* it didn't matter.

As for that isn't the point, its ENTIRELY the point. People are getting wound up over optional content and then complaining about "broken systems" and "bad design" when they're just too lazy to play the game and get the rewards out there. They also seem to think that these quests HAVE to be completed as if they prevent you from doing any other activity. Tthe only thing gated behind dailies is... more dailies.

And FYI stop pretending the complainers are all one type of player. Some are raiders, sure, presumably ones who expect to be fully epic'd within the first few weeks of an expansion, which... *gasps* is basically a throwback to Wrath mentality. Yaknow the one thats so reviled.

I mean, you unsubbed 3 weeks ago, so tihs doesn't affect you so much, but when you played the game, why did you feel you NEEDED the VP gear to raid with if you managed BoT in quest blues without even gearing up from the Heroic 5 mans...