Warrior viability in 5.1

[Reith]

Hybrids are getting a nerf, pvp power no longer effects your healing if you are in a dps spec, this change makes a HUGE difference. before on my shadow priest i could heal with a flash heal for 170k on a crit, without the pvp power scaling on pts i heal for around 40k on a crit. i agree that other classes are hiding in the warriors shadow and being UN-noticed, but once warriors receive their nerfs, people will start on the next class and call for nerfs on them too, its a viscous cycle.

The problem isn't hybrids, it's hybrid CASTERS. If it affects Retribution Paladins at all, that is a nerf that will cripple them.

[Redlikemyrage]

The problem isn't hybrids, it's hybrid CASTERS. If it affects Retribution Paladins at all, that is a nerf that will cripple them.

Based from glancing at the other thread that touches on the pvp healing change, it appears this will indeed affect Rets.

[Deleted]

Bad pvp warrior spotted. Which in turn leads me to believe you were going against bad opponents as well. Shockwave > Dragon Roar in every way possible.

In competitive pvp (read: 3v3) you can, and will be CC'd and/or peeled by a competent team. It really is not hard to counter warrior CD stacking, badkids are going to get warriors nerfed for no good reason. -_-

And if you want to attack any class for having an instant win button, talk about hunters. But even there you don't have much merit, as again, I've seen, and successfully done so myself, countered a hunter with all his CDs up.

So i can pop all CDs at the beginning of the arena heroic leap a player or charge, dragons roar and then a follow up hit. This gives the enemy team very little time to react.

[TJ]

So i can pop all CDs at the beginning of the arena heroic leap a player or charge, dragons roar and then a follow up hit. This gives the enemy team very little time to react.

Dragon's roar will hit for little with 3 targets since the damage is split and you will be disarmed/cced instantly vs a good team, if you don't get the kill you've also just wasted all of your cd's, grats!

Your tactics might work at 1k rating but try it over 2k and see how it works out.

[Nyaldee]

It really is not hard to counter warrior CD stacking, badkids are going to get warriors nerfed for no good reason. -_-

Are you serious?

Unless warrior is stupid for the time he pops cds he makes sure:
1) Trinket is up.
2) Spell reflection is up.
3) Berserker rage is up.

So you stack cds and you've perma freedom/incapitate out/fear out/spellreflect for castable cc/ dispell from healer and trinket. That's hard to stop in itself, but when you add shockwave and random cc from your teammates things become ugly.

Claiming warriors cd stacking can be easilly countered is at the same lvl as S5 DKs soloing ppls in 3 SS and then saying: outplayed - your problem you couldn't stop me through IBF/AMS/Lichborn. The difference is that back then ppls were runing RMPs with triple dmg proc trinkets/rocket gloves oneshoting ppls in the opener, Rsham/Priest/Retri who could pull through on cds then let retri rape someone in single HoJ and so on.

Atm it's pointless to argue how we're counterable and stuff, becouse we've seen FOTM classes nerfed time after time. The question is how hard the nerf will be and how long Blizz will let current situation slide (could be quite a whille, judging based on last 2 seasons of rogues domination).

[Gangresnake]

DKs don't actually hit like trucks, they just apply high preassure

Yeah, that's what I said, they hit like trucks.

[Redlikemyrage]

Are you serious?

Unless warrior is stupid for the time he pops cds he makes sure:
1) Trinket is up.
2) Spell reflection is up.
3) Berserker rage is up.

So you stack cds and you've perma freedom/incapitate out/fear out/spellreflect for castable cc/ dispell from healer and trinket. That's hard to stop in itself, but when you add shockwave and random cc from your teammates things become ugly.

Claiming warriors cd stacking can be easilly countered is at the same lvl as S5 DKs soloing ppls in 3 SS and then saying: outplayed - your problem you couldn't stop me through IBF/AMS/Lichborn. The difference is that back then ppls were runing RMPs with triple dmg proc trinkets/rocket gloves oneshoting ppls in the opener, Rsham/Priest/Retri who could pull through on cds then let retri rape someone in single HoJ and so on.

Atm it's pointless to argue how we're counterable and stuff, becouse we've seen FOTM classes nerfed time after time. The question is how hard the nerf will be and how long Blizz will let current situation slide (could be quite a whille, judging based on last 2 seasons of rogues domination).

Not sure if serious but... this is kind of exactly what I mean. Players really have no fucking idea, period, what the real problem is with warriors. CD stacking isn't it, it's the fact that our uptime is ridiculous because of all the tools we have at our disposal to keep players locked down. So yeah, keep lumping in with the other badkids who can't understand that once warrior uptime is nerfed (like it will be in 5.1 already with avatar and gag order changes) our CD stacking won't mean shit.

Just relax with calling for damage nerfs, call for proper nerfs. And that would be nerfs to our uptime and control, which we are getting. And I really can't believe your piss poor argument that only a good warrior pops all of his CDs under the conditions you listed. Nevermind that I might have to trinket a poly to help my partner, or spell reflect it if he didn't POM+poly. Or nevermind the fact that berserker rage had to be used to break me out of that fear.

Man, it really sounds like you have very little grasp on what is wrong with warriors. CD stacking comparable to DKs in S5? Hardly. AMS makes you immune to magic, our reflect does ONE spell, which a good caster will piddle away with some measly instant cast. DKs also lose no offensive ability popping icebound, but let me guess, shield wall is just as bad right?

Seriously, call for the right nerfs, to our uptime and control, not our damage stacking. And if you can't counter a warrior with all his CDs up, lol L2play...

---------- Post added 2012-11-09 at 03:03 PM ----------

So i can pop all CDs at the beginning of the arena heroic leap a player or charge, dragons roar and then a follow up hit. This gives the enemy team very little time to react.

As TJ pointed out, this tactic would never work at higher rating. Hell it probably barely works at 1600 or so. I'm looking at the top 3s teams for my battegroup at I'm counting about 24 warriors in the top 50 teams. For comparison, I also count 24 resto shamans, 19 hunters, and 11 mages. Oh and get this, the top team doesn't even HAVE a warrior.

People need to just stop, the 5.1 nerfs will more than likely be enough to keep our control and uptime from being as ridiculous as it is now.

Oh, and the 6th team consists of hunter, warr, rshaman. Both dps classes have insane burst with CD stacking, yet they have lost 111 times to 161 wins. That is a 111 times where the "OP FOTM warrior and hunter" cd stacking was not enough to win and was countered by the other team. That's how sad this thread is, by reading it, you would believe that warriors just can't lose, which really isn't true.

[Halios]

Warriors will still have lots of damage and mobility, you'll just see more warriors going with a mobile spec as opposed to a lockdown spec. And for anyone who thinks Bladestorm needs a buff, Spec fury and pick up a pair of 2 handers, that's what Bladestorm is designed for, It does insanely high damage.

[Redlikemyrage]

Warriors will still have lots of damage and mobility, you'll just see more warriors going with a mobile spec as opposed to a lockdown spec. And for anyone who thinks Bladestorm needs a buff, Spec fury and pick up a pair of 2 handers, that's what Bladestorm is designed for, It does insanely high damage.

Fury pales in comparison to arms for pvp, your point is completely moot.

[K3npo]

All classes can either stack CD's and burst, OR stack CD's, CC their target, and faceroll some stupid damage upon their target.

qqmoarpls.

[Strah]

Warriors will still have lots of damage and mobility, you'll just see more warriors going with a mobile spec as opposed to a lockdown spec. And for anyone who thinks Bladestorm needs a buff, Spec fury and pick up a pair of 2 handers, that's what Bladestorm is designed for, It does insanely high damage.

And that's where disarm comes in and absolutely negates this magical 1.5min cd ability.

[Punctured]

Lawl some random guy trying to call for more Warrior nerfs by saying he plays one when he really doesnt.

Also 2v2.

Lawl.

[K3npo]

In all honesty, shouldn't all the warriors just wear the nerfs on the chin? Seriously, any class that can manage to kill a Mage gets nerfed. So what's different now? Suck it up, and take it like a warrior.. if you still don't like it, re-roll Mage. You'll always get what you want.

[Punctured]

Are you serious?

Unless warrior is stupid for the time he pops cds he makes sure:
1) Trinket is up.
2) Spell reflection is up.
3) Berserker rage is up.

So you stack cds and you've perma freedom/incapitate out/fear out/spellreflect for castable cc/ dispell from healer and trinket. That's hard to stop in itself, but when you add shockwave and random cc from your teammates things become ugly.

Claiming warriors cd stacking can be easilly countered is at the same lvl as S5 DKs soloing ppls in 3 SS and then saying: outplayed - your problem you couldn't stop me through IBF/AMS/Lichborn. The difference is that back then ppls were runing RMPs with triple dmg proc trinkets/rocket gloves oneshoting ppls in the opener, Rsham/Priest/Retri who could pull through on cds then let retri rape someone in single HoJ and so on.

Atm it's pointless to argue how we're counterable and stuff, becouse we've seen FOTM classes nerfed time after time. The question is how hard the nerf will be and how long Blizz will let current situation slide (could be quite a whille, judging based on last 2 seasons of rogues domination).

Funny, i have no issue negating or mitigating Warrior cooldowns at all on any of my level 90 characters.

Also your little "Trinket, Spell Reflect, Berserker Rage" comment is completely ignorant, apparently you think they dont have cooldowns or something ?

Trinket = 1 Crowd Control clearance, 2 minute CD.
Spell Reflect = 1 Spell Reflected on a 25 second CD.
Berserker Rage = 6 seconds of fear immunity on a 30 second CD. Can be dispelled with Shiv, Tranq, Soothe.

Do you realize how much more immunities/defensives other classes have such as Paladins, Death-Knights, Druids, etc ? Not only do they have better cooldowns but theyre on pretty low cooldown timers.

This complaining is obnoxious, period.

[kosechi]

Do you realize how much more immunities/defensives other classes have such as Paladins, Death-Knights, Druids, etc ? Not only do they have better cooldowns but theyre on pretty low cooldown timers.

This complaining is obnoxious, period.

paladin immunities are on a very long cooldown cause forbearance and cut their damage in half ( bubble), or can be trivially dispeled or blanket silenced to prevent (freedom). paladins have nearly zero passive mitigation against physical damage and only active defenses against magical damage.

death knight immunities are on a very long cd and cost significant resources( IBF) or only against magical cc (lichborne, ams) they are vulnerable to the same blanket silences as paladins they also have very weak mitigation against physical damage and only active defenses against magical damage.

warriors have high passive mitigation and non active defenses, avatar/zerker rage interaction makes them fairly hard to peel ( immune to sap, fear, incapacitate, and movement impairing effects)

comparing the defenses and immunities of warriors to those of other plate melee is ludicrous. rets and dks are just out classed.

[Vampyrr]

I dont think they will be viable at all. Lost too much ground with nothing given in return casters will shit all over us once more.

[Dristereau]

I can't believe that warriors are complaining about this removal or Gag Order...Warriors are already the class with most interrupts in the game.
1) You can Charge twice every 20 sec or once every 12 sec to interrupt any spell (ranged interrupt - 12 sec CD).
2) You can pummel to interrupt enemy and silence for 4 sec (melee range - 15 sec CD)
3) You can use disrupting shout at mid range to interrupt and silence for 4 sec (ranged - 40 sec CD)
4) You can use Shockwave to interrupt and stun/silence for 4 sec (ranged - 20 sec CD)
5) You can use Spell Reflection to reflect one cast every 25 sec (better than interrupting) (ranged - 25 sec CD)

So, between all those abilities, the caster has almost no time to cast against an warrior. The only time he is allowed to cast is when the warrior is Freezed, disoriented or feared.
The interruption of casts and control of the battlefield is surely the best thing a warrior already has, he doesn't need another Gag Order to do so.
Tell me any other class who has this amount of interrupts? Most melees just have 2 of them, warriors have 5!!

I've played a Mage at 90 and a Feral can keep me from casting as easy as a Warrior. I'm not saying Warrior's don't need a change, I'm just trying to help people understand how the damage stacks. Also, cast in PVP doesn't happen often, mainly instant spells are thrown unless something is cc'd

In terms of Charge, it has always been a Warrior Ability needed for movement, a few classes can have passive movement increases (Rogues, Paladins and Druids) so a Warrior moving at 100% is not going to keep up with a 115/130% moving Class. Whilst it interrupts, warriors without a gap closer and Heroic Leap not being usable uphill in PVP Zones are extremely useless with no movement.
In terms of Pummel, interrupt yes, 5.1 a silence it is not, so unless something is standing next to you and casting, I doubt it will make a major difference. Maybe it locks you out of a School of Magic, but most classes use at least some abilities from another School.
Heroic Leap not silencing, but still interrupting at range in PVP would be nice.
For Shockwave and Spell Reflection, look at the other talents on those tiers. Nothing beats them in terms of utility, and MSR finally solves the issue of swapping weapons and casting Spell Reflect whilst something eats your face. I have used Bladestorm, and enjoyed it in Cata, but with its cooldown being so long, DR damage and lack of control, Shockwave just is the ability to take.

With the amount of CC in the game currently, warriors need a reasonable amount to actually do something, because often I find myself frozen or feared for a full seven seconds with nothing even that close. I wish there was less CC and that all classes lost some, but I can't see that happening at the moment. I also consider that Defensive Stance needs changing for Arms and Fury Warriors, it's 25% Damage Reduction is extremely powerful in PVP. Also forgot to mention that Intimidating Shout has an increased cooldown, but it should be interesting to see talent and glyph changes after the patch hits.

[AiAtola]

Affliction dots gets outhealed by second wind. That's what i call a balanced talent lol

[Majesticmind]

One of those I played warrior for a few hours so I then must know everything there is to know about said class eh ? #weallknowwhatyadidthere

[akon]

Lets put charge on a 30second cooldown and mortal strike only generate 5 rage and lets up all rage costs by 15rage, remove hamstring and piercing howl, and lets lower warrior movement speed by 8%

Or lets all reroll to a warrior, grap our Gladiator title and return to our favorite class right?