[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Deja Thoris]

he claims he pally is perfect and does no wrong.

That's such a bullshit attitude. Theres always room for improvement. In his case quite a lot :P

I checked the longest Garrosh attempt (9:00), His eternal flame uptime was 17%. He missed millions of self heals because of that.
He used Divine protection 4 times (30 sec CD so in theory could have used it 18 times) The prot 2 piece has a nice synergy with DP so he should really use DP on cooldown (it gives you a 10 sec HoT for 75% of the damage taken in the previous 10 sec)

Apart from that hes using the dps cloak. Not a good idea progressing on a boss that hits like a truck.

Bottom line is he can help out the healers more, hes also missing a free cheat death ability for *moar deeps*

[BetrayedOf52]

That's such a bullshit attitude. Theres always room for improvement. In his case quite a lot :P

I checked the longest Garrosh attempt (9:00), His eternal flame uptime was 17%. He missed millions of self heals because of that.
He used Divine protection 4 times (30 sec CD so in theory could have used it 18 times) The prot 2 piece has a nice synergy with DP so he should really use DP on cooldown (it gives you a 10 sec HoT for 75% of the damage taken in the previous 10 sec)

Apart from that hes using the dps cloak. Not a good idea progressing on a boss that hits like a truck.

Bottom line is he can help out the healers more, hes also missing a free cheat death ability for *moar deeps*

Yeah, got him using the tank cloak now, also he reforged into the 5% haste, attempts tonight ended at 2%. Ill let him know about the uptime and such. And he has that attitude only with me, being his younger brother, if he was to see this post, he will do whats needed haha, not a totally horrible attitude just yeah.

[Nillo]

Yeah, got him using the tank cloak now, also he reforged into the 5% haste, attempts tonight ended at 2%. Ill let him know about the uptime and such. And he has that attitude only with me, being his younger brother, if he was to see this post, he will do whats needed haha, not a totally horrible attitude just yeah.

Still hitting every socket bonus even though most of them aren't worth it. (60 str per gem is definitely not)
Gems hit even though overcapped.
Glyph of Avenging Wrath - wat °_°

[BetrayedOf52]

Still hitting every socket bonus even though most of them aren't worth it. (60 str per gem is definitely not)
Gems hit even though overcapped.
Glyph of Avenging Wrath - wat °_°

what glyphs do you suggest?

[Moussaka]

Glyphs will be situational but those we kinda all using (so mixed with both Alabaster shield and Divine Prot glyphs he already has) are WoG glyph (+3% dmg per HoPo spent on WoG), Final Wrath, Focused Shield.
Note: WoG glyph works with EF.
Hand of Sacrifice can be another one I saw used sometimes by others palprots.

Icy Veins got a Paladin Protection fight to fight post with glyphs/talents suggestions: http://www.icy-veins.com/forums/topi...paladin-style/ .

It is not complete in any way and each one of us will have some preferences, but it gives a general idea of what can be useful nonetheless.

[MerinPally]

Alabaster Shield and Final Wrath are basically mandatory. WoG is good on Malkorok for getting that extra add (on heroic at least, I don't know about normal) and then Divine Protection has it's place for certain fights. Focused Shield is a great +dps for single target fights.

[arel00]

Divine Protection glyph is practically mandatory for fights that are physical based. There are no good excuses to skip over a free 20% reduction on 30secs (or less) cd, ESPECIALLY with the tier bonus. One example is Nazgrim, practically all damage is physical. While in a low damage environment (as 10N) we tend to focus more on damage, it still is free damage reduction at no cost (on physical fights).

[MerinPally]

Ok so I have a question which I wouldn't normally ask, but considering how far out of the loop I am with Pandaria in terms of being involved in raids, here I am.

I have a long time friend who is also a protection paladin, and he raids 25man. They're 13/14normal and will do some heroic raiding because that's what his guild does - they won't be clearing heroic content but they'll do probably half of it by the time the tier ends. As of recent he decided to gem pure +240 stamina gems. Like almost exclusively, think he has one gem that isn't. He has hit cap and 15% exp so all is good, but he has 9.7% haste. Instead, he has been reforging in an attempt to make his dodge and parry into that ratio which I think DK's use or maybe used to. He has like 30% parry and 13% dodge, and is reforging into dodge. He's pretty well geared with his 4p with the legs as the off piece, has Malkorok and Rook's as trinkets.

He says that it works for him and frankly I don't doubt him with dodge and parry figures that high. What I'm afraid of is that he's hurting his raid. I've tried talking to him and he doesn't seem to want to listen, so am I worrying too much? He did 67k dps on Nazgrim, 55k on Immerseus and 84k on Sha. I will link logs and armory if really needed but I'm looking for a more qualitative answer as to how much (if at all) he's harming the raid. All I know is that 508 ilvl with 35% haste I was doing more dps on LFR where I have less vengeance but also differing tank swaps. I don't want to make a fuss unless he deserves it.

[Deleted]

Ok so I have a question which I wouldn't normally ask, but considering how far out of the loop I am with Pandaria in terms of being involved in raids, here I am.

I have a long time friend who is also a protection paladin, and he raids 25man. They're 13/14normal and will do some heroic raiding because that's what his guild does - they won't be clearing heroic content but they'll do probably half of it by the time the tier ends. As of recent he decided to gem pure +240 stamina gems. Like almost exclusively, think he has one gem that isn't. He has hit cap and 15% exp so all is good, but he has 9.7% haste. Instead, he has been reforging in an attempt to make his dodge and parry into that ratio which I think DK's use or maybe used to. He has like 30% parry and 13% dodge, and is reforging into dodge. He's pretty well geared with his 4p with the legs as the off piece, has Malkorok and Rook's as trinkets.

He says that it works for him and frankly I don't doubt him with dodge and parry figures that high. What I'm afraid of is that he's hurting his raid. I've tried talking to him and he doesn't seem to want to listen, so am I worrying too much? He did 67k dps on Nazgrim, 55k on Immerseus and 84k on Sha. I will link logs and armory if really needed but I'm looking for a more qualitative answer as to how much (if at all) he's harming the raid. All I know is that 508 ilvl with 35% haste I was doing more dps on LFR where I have less vengeance but also differing tank swaps. I don't want to make a fuss unless he deserves it.

He's bad.

Yes. It works. Obviously. Wearing a full set of intellect gear with intellect gems would work. But it's not the least bit optimal. The amount of stamina he has isn't even necessary for Paragons or Garrosh on heroic. He's holding his raid back by not going for haste (ie. more healing, more damage).

Luckily for me most of my friends listen to me without me even having to tell them why, but in a case like this I would simply tell him that I'm not saying he's doing it wrong just to make me feel better, I might just as well not care. But I'm trying to help him get better but if he doesn't want to listen - he's welcome to do so but he should know that he's playing like a ******* scrub and holding his guild back.

[Teddybird]

I have a long time friend who is also a protection paladin, and he raids 25man. They're 13/14normal and will do some heroic raiding because that's what his guild does - they won't be clearing heroic content but they'll do probably half of it by the time the tier ends. As of recent he decided to gem pure +240 stamina gems. Like almost exclusively, think he has one gem that isn't. He has hit cap and 15% exp so all is good, but he has 9.7% haste. Instead, he has been reforging in an attempt to make his dodge and parry into that ratio which I think DK's use or maybe used to. He has like 30% parry and 13% dodge, and is reforging into dodge. He's pretty well geared with his 4p with the legs as the off piece, has Malkorok and Rook's as trinkets.

I only raid 10man heroic so unsure of stamina needs for it but im pretty sure thats way to much, also he may have more heath but the healers will have to heal him alot more than they would if he was haste build. Im sitting on 18.5k haste (43%) at 9/14 in 10m hc using 1 stamina trinket which is the malk one, and using the haste trinket from horridon, if he swaped to full haste im pretty sure the healers would love him as his damage intake would go down. At 890k unbuffed hp i havent really has to meny problems up to 9/14hc so he shouldn't need to build like that unless he is taken stupid amount of damage.

Right now the only think dodge/parry gives a paladin that i know of is the chance to reset CD for Shield and that not exactly a big deal.

He did 67k dps on Nazgrim, 55k on Immerseus and 84k on Sha.

I dont on hc 77k on immersus (i don't do adds, bear does), 153k on sha and 119k on nazgrim. Given the fact there on hc and 10m think you can see how much dps he is losing, with hero and luckly proc on thok normal pull ive done up to 200-220k ish burst damage in the first 30sec of the fight, while dps is directly why a tank is there it help a lot. Even more so given how tight some dps checks are.


In short hes losing a lot of dps and properly a lot of defense and properly causing healers to have to spam him more than they should. Id say going into heroic the dmg on tank ramps up a fair bit and pretty sure thinking of when they get to malk hc if they dont have a brewmaster he will have trouble trying to solo tank malk without a haste build.

[MerinPally]

Thanks guys will speak to him later, maybe his GM it depends how stubborn he is. I don't want to get him in trouble or come across as the bad guy, if the GM says it's fine then I'll ignore it (as much as it hurts every bone in my body). I did notice he's broken 1mil hp unbuffed as of last night, I couldn't fathom why he'd want to do that at all. I think even Noxxic disagrees with him and... Noxxic... :/

I knew he was doing it wrong (you'd hope so seeing as I wrote the prot guide) but the extent to which he's making it hard is something I couldn't tell you. I assumed a lot, seems I was right. Thanks for the feedback.

[Nillo]

Divine Protection glyph is practically mandatory for fights that are physical based. There are no good excuses to skip over a free 20% reduction on 30secs (or less) cd, ESPECIALLY with the tier bonus. One example is Nazgrim, practically all damage is physical. While in a low damage environment (as 10N) we tend to focus more on damage, it still is free damage reduction at no cost (on physical fights).

Isn't Nazgrim like the only example?
On every other fight I prefer having an extra dps glyph and getting the full 40% magic reduction tbh.
Besides it isn't even necessary on Nazgrim.

[Deleted]

Isn't Nazgrim like the only example?
On every other fight I prefer having an extra dps glyph and getting the full 40% magic reduction tbh.
Besides it isn't even necessary on Nazgrim.

Paragons comes to mind as THE fight you want to glyph DP. Nazgrim on the other hand seems pointless at this stage since you can survive a completely unmitigated hit just fine. Another fight would probably be Malkorok. - but yeah outside of those two I wouldn't touch the glyph.

[Lethora]

Well, dps @ Nazgrim totally depends on tactic you use. I did 119k on our kill this week, but I tank boss for like 10 seconds at the start, switch to adds when they come out and never touch the boss again (unless all adds are dead which happens rarely).

[Lackluster]

Well, dps @ Nazgrim totally depends on tactic you use. I did 119k on our kill this week, but I tank boss for like 10 seconds at the start, switch to adds when they come out and never touch the boss again (unless all adds are dead which happens rarely).

WTF, do you use 3 tanks? I'm guessing that's 25man then. :P There's a lot more frantic running around on 10man.

[Jellospally]

Yea he is 25. Though I wouldn't say 10 is frantic at all, not if you tank the boss on top of where adds spawn. You can easily swap at 3 stacks always and have your add wave dead you started tanking. Seeing as you only have to tank 2 of the 5(6?!?) kinds of mobs that can even spawn.

[arel00]

Isn't Nazgrim like the only example?
On every other fight I prefer having an extra dps glyph and getting the full 40% magic reduction tbh.
Besides it isn't even necessary on Nazgrim.

On top of my head: Norushen does mostly physical damage on tanks, the magical component is raid wide, so that could be an option, Nazgrim, Malkorok, Klaxxi. I would need to analyze Garrosh to see if there's more magical damage or physical damage going around on the tank. For the raid it's a no brainer ofc, but we're talking tanks here.

[Deja Thoris]

Thanks guys will speak to him later, maybe his GM it depends how stubborn he is. I don't want to get him in trouble or come across as the bad guy, if the GM says it's fine then I'll ignore it (as much as it hurts every bone in my body). I did notice he's broken 1mil hp unbuffed as of last night, I couldn't fathom why he'd want to do that at all. I think even Noxxic disagrees with him and... Noxxic... :/

I knew he was doing it wrong (you'd hope so seeing as I wrote the prot guide) but the extent to which he's making it hard is something I couldn't tell you. I assumed a lot, seems I was right. Thanks for the feedback.

It's basically the difference between 1mill soft squishy HP and lower but more "solid" HP is how I see it. No point having loads of hitpoints that evaporate when a boss stares at you angrily. If he doesn't listen to nice then tell him hes playing like a complete noob. Because basically he is. Hes not just hurting his dps but his survivability and self heals.

[MerinPally]

It's basically the difference between 1mill soft squishy HP and lower but more "solid" HP is how I see it. No point having loads of hitpoints that evaporate when a boss stares at you angrily. If he doesn't listen to nice then tell him hes playing like a complete noob. Because basically he is. Hes not just hurting his dps but his survivability and self heals.

Oh I know all this don't worry, but thank you Was more wondering if people could give a more general idea like "he's losing probably x% dps and y% heals" or whatever.

[Deleted]

With regard to stamina, I have always found that having one or 2 stamina trinkets is plenty enough as long as they have a relevant ilvl to the content you are doing. As a rule I would always gem haste as prio in sockets but generally match up any stamina, haste or mastery red sockets and always use stam/haste in blues. That is plenty stamina for 25 man heroic and is a good value to have if you want to play safely in any other difficulty.

In regard to going for avoidance, he will take less damage overall in a fight by doing so, but has less control over how that damage comes in, for example he could take 2-3 unmitigated hits and then dodge 5 or 6, but with haste you have more control over your shield of the righteous as you have access to it more frequently and can time them to be more effective.

Its hard to quantify dps and healing, but generally up to 50% haste, 1% haste is 1% dps (everything apart from ES/LH is affected) so thats a rough guide to how much he's losing out, healing wise its a bit different because often EF and any other hots you put on yourself overheal so i would say that he isn't losing much in that respect, though he would see an improvement in surivability in going for more haste.