[Prot] Fix my Tanking!

[Nairobi]

Glyphs.

Personally i always use BH, Alab Sh and then switch between Focussed Shield or Final Wrath depending on whether it's a single target or aoe fight.
Im sure i saw someone saying that they also use Focussed Wrath glyph - does anyone ever use this? Never really seen the point of this glyph.

Focus Wrath is a minor, so it's a bit of a different story. Basically it just makes HW hit your primary target ONLY instead of meteoring. This can be nice if you're trying to burn X, and dont care about Y and Z. So like, heroic Twins, you don;t really care about the Lurkers, just want to kill LuLin. Downside is it's a decrease to your cleave, but no net change on dmg. I've never used it, just out of laziness.

[Seahenar]

Focus Wrath is a minor, so it's a bit of a different story. Basically it just makes HW hit your primary target ONLY instead of meteoring. This can be nice if you're trying to burn X, and dont care about Y and Z. So like, heroic Twins, you don;t really care about the Lurkers, just want to kill LuLin. Downside is it's a decrease to your cleave, but no net change on dmg. I've never used it, just out of laziness.

It is actually possible to make Focused Wrath a dps gain when combined with Final Wrath, but only if used well. If not used well it can easily become a dps loss.

[Nairobi]

It is actually possible to make Focused Wrath a dps gain when combined with Final Wrath, but only if used well. If not used well it can easily become a dps loss.

That was my point. It's a very rare situation that it's actually useful; IF you have more than one target and IF that target is of importance and IF that target is below 20%, THEN the glyph is useful WHEN combined with FW provided you're focusing that target (which you should be).

I can think of that for:
HC Twins (phase 1, trying to kill the Beast, ignoring the lurkers), however rest of the fight it's kinda meh. Cleave is still useful, even in final phase.
HC IQ IF you want to burn down one dog first, but cleaving them all is also perfectly fine and as effective, esp when all 3 are <20% (even tho I glyph DP for this anyway).
HC Animus if you're trying to focus down the small golems and not "waste" damage onto the massives. But honestly, tanking 3 adds you're gonna have capped vengeance anyway, and can 2-shot the small golems with AS, so it's a drop in the pot.
HC Durumu if you don't want to "waste" damage onto eyes or ice walls and only hit boss. If you need extra cleave on adds/walls, this may be a loss.
HC Primo to focus on boss/Large add instead of meteoring onto small ones.

That's all I got, and most of those situations even have situational requirements FOR the situations to be useful. Haven't tried LS HC or RaDen, so maybe some opportunites there.

[Lethora]

Focused Wrath is useful for soloing LK, so you dont waste any dps on adds.

[Nairobi]

Focused Wrath is useful for soloing LK, so you dont waste any dps on adds.

Good call, even though it's not relavent content; I had forgotten about him. Is this going to still be doable after the veng cap change? I'd imagine it'd be very tight if even possible.

[Deleted]

Good call, even though it's not relavent content; I had forgotten about him. Is this going to still be doable after the veng cap change? I'd imagine it'd be very tight if even possible.

At 90? Yes easily still. At 80? No, probably not.

[Lethora]

Good call, even though it's not relavent content; I had forgotten about him. Is this going to still be doable after the veng cap change? I'd imagine it'd be very tight if even possible.

Veng cap doesnt change anything for lvl 90s there, since I barely sit above 130k AP on this fight. For 80-90s, that's probably end of soloing, because they wont be able to get enough AP to dps the boss to meet the enrage.

[Nairobi]

I've not tried it, ever, solo so wasn't sure. From Choice's post, he made it sound like you had to sit at cap (or clsoe to) thanks to creative use of AD and stuff in order to not hit enrage. Then again, taht was some time ago before the gear upgrades back in 5.1, so I suppose that makes a difference. A few of us usually do yogg-0 and HLK, so doesn't really affect me either way. TY for info tho!

[Riemu2k3]

As someone with no tanking experience, what should I add to or prioritize my UI with? For instance, I never really paid attention to other people's debuffs but now I have a frame for my focus (the other tank) and his debuffs are enlarged. I'm guessing the boss' cast bar is key to be prepared for abilities. I installed clcprot but think the priority needs to be adjusted. What else should I be focusing on that is key to being a good tank?

Things you need to have to be able to tank successfully:

- Raid Frames that show you Debuffs and HP/Mana of your Raid (to Dispell, to Lay on Hands, to Freedom, to see if you can Pull stuff or not, to see debuffs of your co-tank) (ie. Grid)
- UnitFrames with a Target's target to see if mobs have other targets (like when you dont see their nameplates because the mobs is too big)
- An Addon that allows you to short-cast your Spells when hovering over unitframes without losing your target (so you dont need to click first and target the player) (ie. Clique)
- Focus Kick Macro and prominent Focus Castbar (like when you tank council and you need to kick sul while dpsing empowered marli) (ie. Quartz)
- Prominent Target Castbar for good/fast interrupts (ie. Quartz)
- Unitframes that change when you have aggro / dont have aggro on mobs (ie. Tidyplates)
- Threat tracking Addons for tank switches and shit (ie. Omen/Skada)
- Unitframes that allow you to track Debuffs/Buffs on mobs (ie. ShadowedUnitFrames)
- An Addon that lets you move/enlarge your own Debuffs to see when you have important stuff (ie. Bison)
- Damage taken / Healing done / Damage done Addons to optimize stuff during tries (ie. Recount/Skada)
- An Addon to track your buffs/procs/external cooldowns and Stuff (you need to see quickly whether or not you have painsup and when it ends) (ie. Weakauras)
- Boss Addon (ie. DBM/BigWigs)
- Pulltimer
- Macroed/Hotkeyed Raidmarks to mark mobs/focustargets


Thats the stuff of the top of my head that you need when you tank. I didn't list stuff like HoP tracking addon because you need to have that anyway when you played Ret.

[Lasthope337]

Hello all, my raid has been stuck at 2/13H with Horridon almost done for like a month now. I have to keep replacing bad tank after another and its getting old. I'm holy atm 525 ilvl, but I think I might start going prot starting next lockout. Some tips I'd like to know if you don't mind answering.

• Is it true the 2 piece is only worth it for 10 man? Atm I'm rocking Gloves and LFR Chest.
• What should be SoTR uptime most of the time? Is it true it should be anywhere from 40-70%? I'd like to get a better overview of it.
• I don't like Mr.Robot however if you plug in your own stat weights obviously it's good. Can anyone share some stat weights?

I know the 15% exp and 7.5% hit, but after that do you go straight +320 haste, or include some stam in there?

EDIT: I also forgot to add, should the 2 piece from t15 have a 100% uptime?

[Nairobi]

2pc for 10man is not needed. 2pc is certainly not intended to have 100% uptime. If you insist on getting 2pc, use Helm/Shoulders, as the rest of the pieces are very poorly itemized.

Hit (7.5) > Exp (7.5-15) Haste > Exp (to 15, if not already) > Mastery > Crit >>> Dodge/Parry.

ShotR uptime will depend on fight, gear, talents, but shoot for 50% minimum. Usually I hover around 60-65%.
Sacred Shield uptime should be 95%+.

[underdogba]

Personally, I prefer:

#showtooltip Divine Shield
/cancelaura Divine Shield
/cast Divine Shield

This way, you have the option of leaving the shield up with one button, and a second press will remove it.

I'm pretty sure you have to make the macro in this order (contrary to what Icy Veins says!), because if a /cast fails in a macro, the entire macro terminates. This is to prevent specs that have a priority FCFS system on abilities to create a single dps button.

[pld]

Hello all, my raid has been stuck at 2/13H with Horridon almost done for like a month now. I have to keep replacing bad tank after another and its getting old. I'm holy atm 525 ilvl, but I think I might start going prot starting next lockout. Some tips I'd like to know if you don't mind answering.

• Is it true the 2 piece is only worth it for 10 man? Atm I'm rocking Gloves and LFR Chest.
• What should be SoTR uptime most of the time? Is it true it should be anywhere from 40-70%? I'd like to get a better overview of it.
• I don't like Mr.Robot however if you plug in your own stat weights obviously it's good. Can anyone share some stat weights?

I know the 15% exp and 7.5% hit, but after that do you go straight +320 haste, or include some stam in there?

EDIT: I also forgot to add, should the 2 piece from t15 have a 100% uptime?

Generally prot paladins take the Haste DPS gear for tanking because they're better itemized for us. Dodge and parry are two of our worst stats (confusing, I know), so you want to avoid pieces that have those. It isn't uncommon to use a few Ret tier pieces for tanking since they're actually better itemized. The general consensus for 10m seems to be, pass tier token to priests/warlocks/other pallys. The two piece bonus (for prot) is okay, but not really necessary in 10m. I personally don't use any tier pieces. That said, ilvl is pretty important when looking at gear so a 535 dodge/parry piece would be > 522 haste/mastery. Nairobi discusses it in a post on the last page (pg 28).

SoTR uptime indeed can range from 40-70%. Obviously higher the better, but from personal experience, 40-50% uptime is about where I stood before getting used to the rotation and stacking some more haste. I'm closer to the ~60% range now, but the logs from some of the better paladins that post here show them hovering around 65-70%.

Since you're coming from a holy background, what some prot paladins do is use holy gear to fill in the gaps. Holy gear has the same amount of stam and is better itemized with haste and mastery. The loss in strength is mitigated by the massive amount of vengeance you get during fights. 1 strength = 2 AP, so by using holy gear you lose ~1800 AP, but when you factor in the 100k+ AP you get from Vengeance, it's not a huge hit.

[Deleted]

Hello all, my raid has been stuck at 2/13H with Horridon almost done for like a month now. I have to keep replacing bad tank after another and its getting old. I'm holy atm 525 ilvl, but I think I might start going prot starting next lockout. Some tips I'd like to know if you don't mind answering.

• Is it true the 2 piece is only worth it for 10 man? Atm I'm rocking Gloves and LFR Chest.
• What should be SoTR uptime most of the time? Is it true it should be anywhere from 40-70%? I'd like to get a better overview of it.
• I don't like Mr.Robot however if you plug in your own stat weights obviously it's good. Can anyone share some stat weights?

I know the 15% exp and 7.5% hit, but after that do you go straight +320 haste, or include some stam in there?

EDIT: I also forgot to add, should the 2 piece from t15 have a 100% uptime?

As many others said. 2p is far from needed in 10 man. I am not going for it. It should also not have 100% uptime.
If someone else needs the conqueror token, pass it to them. Only take it after everyone else have their pieces.

SotR uptime should be 55%+ imo. 55% is on the low end. My goal is for 65% on all fights. Presuming haste stacking ofc and atleast 510+ ilvl.

Just as you, I like Mr Robot but I only use my own stat weights. I sometimes change the weights depending on the result I want. However some "base" stat weights I would use.

Very rough weights on the fly.

Hit 4.0
Exp Soft 4.0 Exp Hard 2.5
Haste 3.0
Stamina 3.0
Mastery 1.75
Crit 1.5
Str 1.4
Agility 0.5
Intellect 0.08
Parry 0
Dodge 0

What these weights reflect.

Hit>Exp 7.5>Haste for starters.
Exp hard cap enough lower than haste to prioritise haste. If you like exp hard cap just put exp hard on 4.0
Exp hard cap high enough to prio exp>stam on gems.
Stam high enough to prio stam>mastery on gems.

Crit/Str/Agi/Int values reflect 100% over the damage benefits they have at higher vengeance level (average vengeance level in 10 man raids)


That is roughly the values I would use in robot right now, though depending on what boss I am progressing and my current gear that could very much change.

---------- Post added 2013-05-22 at 09:22 PM ----------

Just to add what I wrote in another thread since it is kinda relevant here about SotR / SS uptime.

I often find my own SS uptime to be shit. Like 40-70%. Though when I check when I have my uptime, I have 100% uptime on all high damage parts. My only down times are on the low damage parts. If I wanted I could have 100% uptime, but I see no reason to keep uptime with 0-20k vengeance SS.

I was checking my SotR uptime for the first few bosses this reset. Disregarding the bosses that I had low uptime for obvious reason. Getting tossed on Jin'rokh, died on primordius (other tanks fault), etc, just checking the fights that nothing really lowered my uptime.

71.2% on Horridon, 67.5% on Council, 72.3% on Megaera, 68.9% on Ji-Kun.

However I am not aiming for max uptime on most of those fights. Like Megaera, Ji-Kun I could easily have pushed 75% on both. I change my rotation when the head is below 20% on Megaera, on Ji-Kun I jumped down to get feather, flied up to get the buff and change my rotation when the other tank is tanking.

Thing is, I change my rotation on almost every fight at certain points. So I get lower uptime. One week I will try to aim for max uptime and see what I get.
Like, I got 61.5% on Tortos, but on Tortos I often overcap HoPo in preparation for bats/bites and hold back HoPo generators. So that is kinda logical.

So really, if you are aiming for max uptime, you should be seeing 65%+ atleast.

[ElChig]

I'm currently trying Horridon 10H with the t15 helm and shoulders for lack of better pieces. Should I try to use the 2 set bonus when Horri rampages? For 10 man, how many cds should be enough for 2 healers to keep me up? Before asking other tank to taunt, I stack DP and AD followed by Guardian when those 2 expire, but I feel I should not use them all so quickly so that I can give my raid more time to kill him. Any tricks for that rampage phase?

[Riemu2k3]

I'm currently trying Horridon 10H with the t15 helm and shoulders for lack of better pieces. Should I try to use the 2 set bonus when Horri rampages? For 10 man, how many cds should be enough for 2 healers to keep me up? Before asking other tank to taunt, I stack DP and AD followed by Guardian when those 2 expire, but I feel I should not use them all so quickly so that I can give my raid more time to kill him. Any tricks for that rampage phase?

I'm completetly Solo-Tanking Horridon HC last phase without 2p T15. I'm tanking the 4th gate while our Monk tanks the Boss. When the Gate is cleaned up, I will taunt Horridon and start fresh with 0 Stacks. When Jalakk spawns, I tank just as I would at the Gates - use SoTR for Puncture and Dire Call, save other CDs.

Before Jalakk falls (like 1-2 secs before) I start with Divine Prot (glyphed) and a external CD (Ironbark, Sacrifice, Painsupp). Holy Avenger ist next - resulting in about 30 secs of 60+ Mitigation. After that, I'll use Guardian and after that Defender. Thats about 1.5 Minutes Rampage tankinig and the Boss should basically fall over at this point. If not, let your OT tank with his CDs (which should all be up anyway). Divine Prot comes back up twice with Unbreakable Spirit so you can weave that in as you go. Also, don't stack Guardian/Defender and SoTR. Build 5 HP during Guardian (without wasting them) and make sure to have 6 secs SoTR ready to go shortly before Guardian falls off. You can also Bubble your stacks again when you have like 3-5.

2p is not advised, because you can't block Triple Punctures and Dire Calls - only normal Melee Attacks. I don't think the Block for Melee Attacks outweighs the SoTR reduction.

----

Totally different Question: Anybody knows if that recent "Sound-Bug" (where addons like WA/Bigwigs cant use the WoW Sound Channel) is an actual bug (and is going to get fixed) or an intended "feature"?

EDIT: Seems fixed according to the Hotfix on the frontpage

[xebtria]

As many others said. 2p is far from needed in 10 man. I am not going for it. It should also not have 100% uptime.
If someone else needs the conqueror token, pass it to them. Only take it after everyone else have their pieces.

SotR uptime should be 55%+ imo. 55% is on the low end. My goal is for 65% on all fights. Presuming haste stacking ofc and atleast 510+ ilvl.

Well, but the uptime only really matters when you are tanking 100% of the time, doesn't it?
and even then, I'd rather time the shield for when I need it. maybe even with boss swing timers.
for example. tortos: I rather delay the shield when he is casting the adds to have it ready when he's casting the big hit. horridon: I rather delay the shield when he is cleaving or charging to have it ready for TP. Durumu: honeslty, I don't give a damn about the shield uptime during maze phase. I have enough trouble standing in the right places, and shield is only physical damage reduction, so... screw it.
Further, we still don't single tank any boss (although we could) so there are some bosses where I don't tank 100% of the time - horridon for example. I just tanked and we have door change. 2nd tank taunts and I'm on dps duty until next adds spawns. I don't give a damn there as well.

so for example, tortos I have a 51% uptime. This is something I can work on (and I most definitely should, because I fail sometimes at timing it right^^) but horridon (normal) we still switch tanks, and this results in a 33% uptime of ShOTR. does this make me a bad tank? my DPS during transition phases is not really important, and I more often than not just overcap HP during his swipes... and we don't exactly have dps problems since we just nuke him to death after third door by now.

TLDR: one should really be careful how to interpret ShOTR uptimes. the boss and the tactic also have impact on the %, it's not just blind skill whether you have a high or a low uptime.

[Deleted]

The uptime still shows how well you perform your rotation. On most fights you can combine having max uptime + having the shield when needed.

Though yes, you are completely right, having SotR when needed is more important than having good uptime, but it is not hard having both.

However, I mentioned in some earlier posts that sotr uptime varies from fights to fight. Some fights have natural times reducing your uptime. Exactly as you mentioned Tortos. That is one fight where I often overcap HoPo in preparation for the bats, so I usually drop to 60% uptime on Tortos. Same of course goes for fights like primordius running around getting mutated etc. When I am talking 65%+ I talk about fights with no reason to have lower uptime.

[Riemu2k3]

Do you have some Logs and/or Armory Links Firefly?

Would love to see your gear/logs/progress

[Deleted]

I can post logs after we get our heroic progress going. Me standing in fire on normal modes attempting to get rank 1s without meta gem does not really help

I dropped you a PM anyway.