USA falling apart?

[SirRobin]

the north was upset over slavery? didnt learn much US history did you? Northerners hated blacks more than the south did. Do you think escaped and later freed slaves were welcomed with open arms when they escaped to the North? Hell no. People up North hated them because they were having to fight a War over people of a different race and were dieing because of them.

If you are not going to bother knowing America's history, then why are you parading your inaccurate assumptions? Slavery was always a major issue in this country. Dating all the way back to the Virginia compromise of the constitution. If the north wasn't upset as you imply, then slavery would not have been outlawed in numerous states in the later half of the eighteenth century and early nineteenth. So... Who doesn't know U.S. history again?

Do you want to go into the whole free-state slave-state balancing act that was being played with statehood?

[Stuffs]

If you are not going to bother knowing America's history, then why are you parading your inaccurate assumptions? Slavery was always a major issue in this country. Dating all the way back to the Virginia compromise of the constitution. If it was anywhere near as actually detested as you claim then slavery would not have been outlawed in numerous states in the later half of the eighteenth century and early nineteenth. So... Who doesn't know U.S. history again?

If anything the truth is in the middle I believe. Slavery was an issue, but so were economics; neither were what solely set off the southern secession and the Civil War.

[usiris]

I want you conservatives to look at the list of all the 23 states that have started a petitioned to secede.It is where the countries food and oil come from. You need them more then they need you.
You will ignore this at your own risk no other time in this country we have been so divided the Republicans have dismissed 52% of this country the part of the country that feed and provide power to the over populated takers of the big cities for to long have they lived off the backs of the hard working farmers and the oil men from the blue states they demonize us as being the educated elite but im sure they will be come begging on their knees when they are hungry because they produce no food and or cold because they produce no oil
I hope you are happy republicans this is the second time in America history that you have forced states to attempt to secede

I fixed it for you.

If you dont know what I did, look up reverse engineering argument.

[SirRobin]

So a petition shows that only about 20,000 Americans are complete nutjobs out of 300,000,000. Honestly I'm impressed that number is so low. USA! USA!

Its almost up to fifty-five grand now.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/BmdWCP8B

Looks like its starting to make the rounds on the news sites which is going to drive its numbers up fast.

[Stuffs]

Its almost up to fifty-five grand now.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...nment/BmdWCP8B

Looks like its starting to make the rounds on the news sites which is going to drive its numbers up fast.

I still kind of want to vote in favor. Mexico needs more territory.

[darkwarrior42]

I fixed it for you.

If you dont know what I did, look up reverse engineering argument.

Right or wrong, the civil war was fought for a number of reasons... one of which was that southern states felt they had essentially no control over their fate. They voted en masse against Lincoln and lost, and they believed he was going to enact policies disadvantageous to them.

It doesn't matter if people are right in this case, it matters what they believe... because they act on their beliefs. I don't think secession is anything we'll actually have to worry about, but still.

The US has issues of course, but it's hardly falling about.

[Paranoid Android]

Actually I wish Texas would succeed. In all seriousness, if Texas or some or state would succeed we could honestly see if BIG government works. I would love to see Texas raise their own military, negotiate treaties, provide education to the masses and all other things people rail against BIG government. Hey it might work and then people can say "see you are wrong..BIG government is bad" or "OMG we are up poo creek w/o a paddle".

[Vyxn]

I really want this law to be passed, and see how Texas reacts when it bluff goes too far.
They do this every time the election goes blue it seems.

No time in history has so many despise a President and it is not because he is black it is because he threatens the core beliefs of 48% of America and that is independent, self reliant, that believes in family values. they don't like to be told what to do, patriots who believe in the constitution.
we are not a socialist country we know what socialism does to your freedom and liberty ( Just ask anyone who left to come to America from a socialist country) and this is the road this president is taking us down. we have seen what socialism has done to most European countries. they have become a state of dependency of spoiled children still being breast fed on the government milk and throw a fit when any attempt is made to wean them off it
This isn't the America they want or want for their children So instead of going down with what they see as a sinking ship they want out they want to be able to dictate their own future because the future they see from this president is Greece

[SirRobin]

If anything the truth is in the middle I believe. Slavery was an issue, but so were economics; neither were what solely set off the southern secession and the Civil War.

Oh yes, slavery was hardly the "only" issue. However, it was a big one and had been cooking since the constitutional convention and before. Hilariously or pathetically enough, our founding fathers did, then, what our elected leaders like to do now. As in, "kick the can" down the road by protecting the slave trade until 1808. Instead of actually using that time to reach a compromise, the slave states spent that time going on a slave buying spree.

[Chrysia]

No time in history has so many despise a President and it is not because he is black it is because he threatens the core beliefs of 48% of America and that is independent, self reliant, that believes in family values. they don't like to be told what to do, patriots who believe in the constitution.
we are not a socialist country we know what socialism does to your freedom and liberty ( Just ask anyone who left to come to America from a socialist country) and this is the road this president is taking us down. we have seen what socialism has done to most European countries. they have become a state of dependency of spoiled children still being breast feed on the government milk and throw a fit when any attempt is made to wean them off it
This isn't the America they want or want for their children So instead of going down with what they see as a sinking ship they want out they want to be able to dictate their own future because the future they see from this president is Greece

Hahahahahahahaha. Oh, you're serious?

Barack Obama is not actually Socialist by any sane definition of the term.

48% of the country hating you isn't actually that bad. Approval ratings for presidents are relatively new, and nobody goes much above 500.

There are many socialist countries doing quite well. Greece was bankrupted through greed and corruption, not socialism.

Half the shit people pin on Obama about limiting our freedoms (NDAA and TSA, spring immediately to mind) were championed by Bush.

[SirRobin]

No time in history has so many despise a President and it is not because he is black it is because he threatens the core beliefs of 48% of America and that is independent, self reliant, that believes in family values. they don't like to be told what to do, patriots who believe in the constitution.
we are not a socialist country we know what socialism does to your freedom and liberty ( Just ask anyone who left to come to America from a socialist country) and this is the road this president is taking us down. we have seen what socialism has done to most European countries. they have become a state of dependency of spoiled children still being breast fed on the government milk and throw a fit when any attempt is made to wean them off it
This isn't the America they want or want for their children So instead of going down with what they see as a sinking ship they want out they want to be able to dictate their own future because the future they see from this president is Greece

Again, what is up with the flawed assumptions? Here is some stuff about Junior for you.

• Attacked and took over two countries.
• Spent the surplus and bankrupted the treasury.
• Shattered record for biggest annual deficit in history.
• Set economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period.
• Set all-time record for biggest drop in the history of the stock market.
• First president in decades to execute a federal prisoner.
• First president in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record.
• First year in office set the all-time record for most days on vacation by any president in U.S. history.
• After taking the entire month of August off for vacation, presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history.
• Set the record for most campaign fundraising trips than any other president in U.S. history.
• In my first two years in office over 2 million Americans lost their job.
• Cut unemployment benefits for more out of work Americans than any president in U.S. history.
• Set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period.
• Appointed more convicted criminals to administration positions than any president in U.S. history.
• Set the record for the least amount of press conferences than any president since the advent of television.
• Signed more laws and executive orders amending the Constitution than any president in U.S. history.
• Presided over the biggest energy crises in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption was revealed.
• Presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history and refused to use the national reserves as past presidents have.
• Cut healthcare benefits for war veterans.
• Set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously take to the streets to protest me (15 million people), shattering the record for protest against any person in the history of mankind.
• Dissolved more international treaties than any president in U.S. history.
• My presidency is the most secretive and unaccountable of any in U.S. history.
• Members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history (the 'poorest' multimillionaire, Condoleezza Rice, has an Exxon oil tanker named after her).
• First president in U.S. history to have all 50 states of the Union simultaneously go bankrupt.
• Presided over the biggest corporate stock market fraud of any market in any country in the history of the world.
• First president in U.S. history to order a U.S. attack and military occupation of a sovereign nation.
• Created the largest government department bureaucracy in the history of the United States.
• Set the all-time record for biggest annual budget spending increases, more than any president in U.S. history.
• First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the human rights commission.
• First president in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the elections monitoring board.
• Removed more checks and balances, and have the least amount of congressional oversight than any presidential administration in U.S. history.
• Rendered the entire United Nations irrelevant.
• Withdrew from the World Court of Law.
• Refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. prisoners of war and by default no longer abide by the Geneva Conventions.
• First president in U.S. history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 U.S. elections).
• All-time U.S. (and world) record holder for most corporate campaign donations.
• My biggest lifetime campaign contributor presided over one of the largest corporate bankruptcy frauds in world history (Kenneth Lay, former CEO of Enron Corporation).
• Spent more money on polls and focus groups than any president in U.S. history.
• First president in U.S. history to unilaterally attack a sovereign nation against the will of the United Nations and the world community.
• First president to run and hide when the U.S. came under attack (and then lied saying the enemy had the code to Air Force 1)
• First U.S. president to establish a secret shadow government.
• Took the biggest world sympathy for the U.S. after 9/11, and in less than a year made the U.S. the most resented country in the world (possibly the biggest diplomatic failure in U.S. and world history).
• With a policy of 'disengagement' created the most hostile Israeli-Palestine relations in at least 30 years.
• Fist U.S. president in history to have a majority of the people of Europe (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and stability.
• First U.S. president in history to have the people of South Korea more threatened by the U.S. than their immediate neighbor, North Korea.
• Changed US policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts.
• Set all-time record for number of administration appointees who violated U.S. law by not selling huge investments in corporations bidding for government contracts.
• Failed to fulfill my pledge to get Osama Bin Laden 'dead or alive.'
• Failed to capture the anthrax killer who tried to murder the leaders of our country at the United States Capital building. After 18 months I have no leads and zero suspects.
• In the 18 months following the 9/11 attacks I have successfully prevented any public investigation into the biggest security failure in the history of the United States.
• Removed more freedoms and civil liberties for Americans than any other president in U.S. history.
• In a little over two years created the most divided country in decades, possibly the most divided the U.S. has ever been since the Civil War.
• Entered office with the strongest economy in U.S. history and in less than two years turned every single economic category heading straight down.

Granted his father was a good sort, I voted for him. But Junior was a spoiled rich kid who conned the electorate with his "compassionate conservative" fantasies.

[ragnarokvr1]

So Obama doesn't waste trillions on another useless war, nay, tries to stop it from bleeding money, tries to give you universal healthcare, and he represents US going downhill?

WoW, Bush must have represented the antichrist then.

[Vyxn]

So Obama doesn't waste trillions on another useless war, nay, tries to stop it from bleeding money, tries to give you universal healthcare, and he represents US going downhill?

WoW, Bush must have represented the antichrist then.

Bush wasn't a Conservative Republican he was a big government RINO And i was very unhappy with his agenda also

[SirRobin]

So Obama doesn't waste trillions on another useless war, nay, tries to stop it from bleeding money, tries to give you universal healthcare, and he represents US going downhill?

WoW, Bush must have represented the antichrist then.

Now Obama is hardly perfect. He consistently underestimated just how badly Junior's fantasies had screwed us. He also seemed to be under the illusion that the republican leadership would accept the elections results and their failures under Bush. We needed FDR 2.0. We needed Pecora Commission 2.0. Instead we got Obama and the Frank-Dodd joke. However, McCain was plainly not up to the task and Romney would have been a return ticket to Junior's Fantasy Island. So we got what we got and our best chance to break this gridlock is for the democrats to finish sidelining the republicans in the house in 2014.

[Forsedar]

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government..."


From the Declaration of Independence.

[artemishunter1]

the north was upset over slavery? didnt learn much US history did you? Northerners hated blacks more than the south did. Do you think escaped and later freed slaves were welcomed with open arms when they escaped to the North? Hell no. People up North hated them because they were having to fight a War over people of a different race and were dieing because of them.

Where did you learn that? The underground railroad shows a different view. Many Northerners saw saw the south states as traitors. Merchantile population of Northern States saw the slaves as valuable resource to be denied to Southern economic rivals. The only time what you described were close to happening was when Lincoln was losign the war, and needed fresh troops. He declared all slaves were free, even within Southern Territories. In one move Lincoln crippled Southern Industry, Supply lines and Provided North with free troops. Having have to fight with black slaves, some Union Soldiers deserted the military. But thats about it.

[Chrysia]

Bush wasn't a Conservative Republican he was a big government RINO And i was very unhappy with his agenda also

Okay, then lets look at your alternative for this election, Romney, who:

Passed a bill in Massachusetts that was the forerunner for Obamacare.

Prior to this election, supported limited abortions for extraneous circumstances.

Had one of the lowest approval ratings of any Massachusetts governor, and spent his last stretch in office solely on campaigning for President rather than running his state.

[artemishunter1]

"When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation."


"...Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, that whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or abolish it, and institute new Government..."


From the Declaration of Independence.

People can still do that. But not through violent means anymore as people can vote to change the leadership. Thus, breaking down rightfully Elected gov't becomes teason.

[Laize]

Actually I was talking about just state side.
God I wish the "fiscal conservatives that don't hate gays and minorities, and people who disagree with them" movement was stronger.

I feel so alone.

You and me both. I apparently missed the days when Republicans existed to provide a financial reality to Democrats when they had lofty goals for the American people.

[Badpaladin]

If the north wasn't upset as you imply, then slavery would not have been outlawed in numerous states in the later half of the eighteenth century and early nineteenth. So... Who doesn't know U.S. history again?

Here's a few tidbits, courtesy of this wonderful book:

Racism in the North was as entrenched as slavery in the South, and it would take the war to shake both. New York blacks could not vote unless they owned $250 in property (a qualification not applied to whites).

Lincoln's first Inaugural Address[...]"I have no purpose, directly or indirectly, to interfere with the institution of slavery in the States where it exists. I believe I have no lawful right to do so, and I have no inclination to do so."

In July Congress passed a Confiscation Act, which enabled the freeing of slaves of those fighting the Union. But this was not enforced by the Union generals, and Lincoln ignored the non-enforcement.

What happened to blacks in the Union army and in the northern cities during the war gave some hint of how limited the emancipation would be, even with fully victory over the Confederacy. Off-duty black soldiers were attacked in northern cities, as in Zanesville, Ohio, in February 1864, where cities were heard to "kill the nigger". Black soldiers were used for the heaviest and dirtiest work, digging trenches, hauling logs and cannon, loading ammunition, digging wells for white regiments. White privates received $13 a month; Negro privates received $10 a month.

[...]a black sergeant of the Third South Carolina Volunteers, William Walker, marched his company to his captain's tent and ordered them to stack arms and resign from the army as a protest against what he considered a breach of contract, because of unequal pay. He was court-martialed and shot for mutiny.

The North, it must be recalled, did not have to undergo a revolution in its thinking to accept the subordination of the Negro. When the Civil War ended, nineteen of the twenty-four northern states did not allow blacks to vote.