New Dungeon, Fractals of the Mists

[zito]

They already said legendaries are getting buffed to Ascended stats so nope not complete and total bullshit.

I believe she is referring to where chris made it sound like legendary stats are a tier of their own.

[Kelesti]

They already said legendaries are getting buffed to Ascended stats so nope not complete and total bullshit.

Are you completely and totally daft? Or just didn't have your coffee today?

"Exotics = Legendaries."

"We're giving out new stuff, so we have to buff Legendaries so they stay BiS."

How does that translate into "We needed a new tier to go between Exotic and Legendary so it wasn't that big of a reward jump?"

Please, explain this logic to me.

[Valeron]

Only real thing I can think of as far as filling that "gap" is not the gap in power but in time invested. A legendary can take a heck of a long time to make (I'll never get one I'm pretty sure) so perhaps they want to fill in that void between the time it gets to make/find exotics to legendaries. Because from a power perspective, that use of wordage doesn't make sense.

[Zeek Daniels]

Are you completely and totally daft? Or just didn't have your coffee today?

"Exotics = Legendaries."

"We're giving out new stuff, so we have to buff Legendaries so they stay BiS."

How does that translate into "We needed a new tier to go between Exotic and Legendary so it wasn't that big of a reward jump?"

Please, explain this logic to me.

Sorry i dont drink coffee.

Legendary weapons yea those were the same as exotics. But you dont have any idea what plans they had for legendary armors and how they would compare with with exotics.

At one point in time maybe they had Ascended items on par with Exotics and later in development the made it different just because of the infusion slot would confuse players. Having exotics with infusion slots and those without, also where you obtain exotics with infusion slots and where you obtain those without, can get pretty confusing. So make a new item tier and put the infusions in that and buff current legendaries so they are back where they were on the gear scale (on par with the top)

Oh im prolly totally daft...

[ControlBlue]

Seems like they are going to make Legendaries be in line with Ascended gears and thus become more powerful than Exotic gears.

I wonder then, what is the purpose of Exotic gears now?

[Remilia]

Sorry i dont drink coffee.

Legendary weapons yea those were the same as exotics. But you dont have any idea what plans they had for legendary armors and how they would compare with with exotics.

At one point in time maybe they had Ascended items on par with Exotics and later in development the made it different just because of the infusion slot would confuse players. Having exotics with infusion slots and those without, also where you obtain exotics with infusion slots and where you obtain those without, can get pretty confusing. So make a new item tier and put the infusions in that and buff current legendaries so they are back where they were on the gear scale (on par with the top)

Oh im prolly totally daft...

What do you have to back this up?

[zito]

Seems like they are going to make Legendaries be in line with Ascended gears and thus become more powerful than Exotic gears.

I wonder then, what is the purpose of Exotic gears now?

You can't buy ascended and it takes a long time to get a legendary. You don't need exotic gear now anyway, a full set of rare is just slightly worse and 10x cheaper, masterwork is slightly worse then rare and even more cheaper.

You can do the whole game in masterwork. Except the new dungeon which will required ascended. Which right now is only 3 items. Which yea!!!!! backslot won't be filled with my useless level 10 item now :/

[MrSerious]

Seems like they are going to make Legendaries be in line with Ascended gears and thus become more powerful than Exotic gears.

I wonder then, what is the purpose of Exotic gears now?

considering its only a ring and a back item you can't change your armour into ascended, or weapons or anything else (for now). Even then the ring gives you set stats and you can't even customise it to suit your toon. I wouldn't really call it an improvement. Big deal it gives you resistance to Agony, can't use that in WvW or anywhere else.

this is such a small deal and people are getting way too upset.

[zito]

considering its only a ring and a back item you can't change your armour into ascended, or weapons or anything else (for now). Even then the ring gives you set stats and you can't even customise it to suit your toon. I wouldn't really call it an improvement. Big deal it gives you resistance to Agony, can't use that in WvW or anywhere else.

this is such a small deal and people are getting way too upset.

They said transfusion comes in 3 forms. Offensive, defensive and omni. I'm guessing omni means they can either fit a offensive or defensive transfusion stat.

Ascended gear will be added to WvWvW eventually.

So you pick how much agony you can handle. Though transfusion is useless outside the dungeon itself because everything is scaled down to other content.

[Sylvanie]

Legendary weapons yea those were the same as exotics. But you dont have any idea what plans they had for legendary armors and how they would compare with with exotics.

Actually, we do:

"The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills, we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too."

[Zeek Daniels]

Seems like they are going to make Legendaries be in line with Ascended gears and thus become more powerful than Exotic gears.

I wonder then, what is the purpose of Exotic gears now?

The same purpose it always had. Looks. Ppl can talk BiS all they want but BiS was never required to do PvE content. (had to say PvE else the WvW crowd would get on me) Seems alot of ppl are of the mindset i need to have the highest quality item or im not happy. Im sorry but Content > Gear for me in any game. And GW2 doesnt require i need gear to see content so gear is not a high priority for me.

@Remilia
I used the word maybe. Remilia just think about how you would go about designing a dungeon like this with an Agony mechanic built in at later difficulties where you the developer need to cater to both the casual crowd who wont spend alot of time in the dungeon but want to see all of it, and the hardcore crowd that will spend alot of time in the dungeon to reach the higher difficulty settings.

Do you add mitigation to the existing exotic items? or do you add a set of items on par with exotics that can mitigate agony? If you add infusion slots to exisiting exotics arent you just wasting time putting that slot on gear that wont even be used in the dungeon? Do you put a normal slot and an infusion slot on every exoitc out their? Now you have players walking around with an infusion slot on their items with no way to fill it other than doing the dungeon. I dont know about you but i like to have my gear socketed it feels empty without a socket. Thats going to make players who dont want to do the dungeon at high difficulties have to do the dungeon to fill the socket. We dont want that, every player should have a choice whether or not they want to do the dungeon or not.

So we cant put the infusion slots on existing exotics because that will confuse everyone. So maybe we can just create a set on par with exotics with a different name and put the infusion slot on those while not giving this new set a normal slot. Ok now we have players wondering whats the difference between exotics and the infusion slot gear. Well the difference is one is used for higher difficulties in this certain dungeon and the other is used for everything else.

I as a player think they shouldnt have increased the stats on the Ascended gear and left it on par with exotics but just switch the normal slot for an infusion slot. Then gradually release stronger and stronger infusions which will scale players power and defense. That is the route i would have gone.
They chose to slightly increase the stats on Ascended gear, prolly so players can tell the difference between the two, when i think "infusion slot" and "bright pink letters" would have been enough to tell the difference.

In the end. Ascended gear isnt required by any means to do GW2's content. For ppl that want higher difficulty encounters feel free to farm the dungeon to your hearts content. But in reality your just gonna be going in circles. The dmg is gonna go up then down then up then down and your gonna be seeing the same stuff day in and day out.

Glad to see WvW'ers will be able to attain the gear outside this dungeon, after all only the rings atm drop in the dungeon while the back pieces are made throught the mystic forge. Depending on how you make it you may never have to step into the dungeon to get the back slot.

Actually, we do:

"The rarest items in the game are not more powerful than other items, so you don’t need them to be the best. The rarest items have unique looks to help your character feel that sense of accomplishment, but it’s not required to play the game. We don’t need to make mandatory gear treadmills,we make all of it optional, so those who find it fun to chase this prestigious gear can do so, but those who don’t are just as powerful and get to have fun too."

Bolded some parts. Dont need the gear to play the game. Gear is optional for those who want to try more difficulties of the same encounters lower geared players can play. If you want to chase after this gear its completely up to you. And for the last part its not true because the stats are slightly higher. Not to mention the fact that offensive infusions are going to be released which will most likely make your character stronger against mobs in the FotM dungeon.

Sry but to me having fun isnt running in an endless circle which is what this dungeon is. Im going to do the dungeon to see the content. You guys can sit here complaining about the higher difficulties of the dungeon and how its making you get more gear all you want. Its not required.

[Remilia]

The same purpose it always had. Looks. Ppl can talk BiS all they want but BiS was never required to do PvE content. (had to say PvE else the WvW crowd would get on me) Seems alot of ppl are of the mindset i need to have the highest quality item or im not happy. Im sorry but Content > Gear for me in any game. And GW2 doesnt require i need gear to see content so gear is not a high priority for me.

@Remilia
I used the word maybe. Remilia just think about how you would go about designing a dungeon like this with an Agony mechanic built in at later difficulties where you the developer need to cater to both the casual crowd who wont spend alot of time in the dungeon but want to see all of it, and the hardcore crowd that will spend alot of time in the dungeon to reach the higher difficulty settings.

Do you add mitigation to the existing exotic items? or do you add a set of items on par with exotics that can mitigate agony? If you add infusion slots to exisiting exotics arent you just wasting time putting that slot on gear that wont even be used in the dungeon? Do you put a normal slot and an infusion slot on every exoitc out their? Now you have players walking around with an infusion slot on their items with no way to fill it other than doing the dungeon. I dont know about you but i like to have my gear socketed it feels empty without a socket. Thats going to make players who dont want to do the dungeon at high difficulties have to do the dungeon to fill the socket. We dont want that, every player should have a choice whether or not they want to do the dungeon or not.

So we cant put the infusion slots on existing exotics because that will confuse everyone. So maybe we can just create a set on par with exotics with a different name and put the infusion slot on those while not giving this new set a normal slot. Ok now we have players wondering whats the difference between exotics and the infusion slot gear. Well the difference is one is used for higher difficulties in this certain dungeon and the other is used for everything else.

I as a player think they shouldnt have increased the stats on the Ascended gear and left it on par with exotics but just switch the normal slot for an infusion slot. Then gradually release stronger and stronger infusions which will scale players power and defense. That is the route i would have gone.
They chose to slightly increase the stats on Ascended gear, prolly so players can tell the difference between the two, when i think "infusion slot" and "bright pink letters" would have been enough to tell the difference.

In the end. Ascended gear isnt required by any means to do GW2's content. For ppl that want higher difficulty encounters feel free to farm the dungeon to your hearts content. But in reality your just gonna be going in circles. The dmg is gonna go up then down then up then down and your gonna be seeing the same stuff day in and day out.

Glad to see WvW'ers will be able to attain the gear outside this dungeon, after all only the rings atm drop in the dungeon while the back pieces are made throught the mystic forge. Depending on how you make it you may never have to step into the dungeon to get the back slot.



Bolded some parts. Dont need the gear to play the game. Gear is optional for those who want to try more difficulties of the same encounters lower geared players can play. If you want to chase after this gear its completely up to you. And for the last part its not true because the stats are slightly higher. Not to mention the fact that offensive infusions are going to be released which will most likely make your character stronger against mobs in the FotM dungeon.

Sry but to me having fun isnt running in an endless circle which is what this dungeon is. Im going to do the dungeon to see the content. You guys can sit here complaining about the higher difficulties of the dungeon and how its making you get more gear all you want. Its not required.

So. What fact do you have to back it up other than opinion.

[Fencers]

The only facts about this gear progression system are stated on the blog as of this time.

Any thing anyone has to say about the prospect of non gear progression, degree of progression, relative difficulty, gear being optional, enjoyment, etc- is purely imagination.

Let's get that straight right here-- many of these notions exist only in player's imagination for the moment.

These are facts:
- Anet are introducing linear gear progression
- Anet are introducing a bimodal endgame
- Anet are planning on this progression being an ongoing process at the moment

[MrSerious]

They said transfusion comes in 3 forms. Offensive, defensive and omni. I'm guessing omni means they can either fit a offensive or defensive transfusion stat.

Ascended gear will be added to WvWvW eventually.

So you pick how much agony you can handle. Though transfusion is useless outside the dungeon itself because everything is scaled down to other content.

3 forms: +5 damage against agony mobs, +5 defense against agony mobs, combination of the two. big deal.

Where did they say it will be added to WvW?

this gw2 forums has to be the most negative forums about gw2 I have read, nearly every thread is just a massive qq fest. Its becoming depressing just to read them.

[Durzlla]

So your response is "yes you lose your rune, but even with the rune/gem, Ascended has higher stats than an Exotic with one, but it's not a lot so fucking deal with it"?

Cute, Durz.

i swear to god you don't even read what i post, you just make some stupid comment and move on.

[solarbear]

They just alienated many gw1 fans.

This is a bad bad move and likely the first of many silly treadmills.

[Ravenblade]

I swear what ANet is doing here is akin to suddenly switching on the main lights and turning off the music during a happy club party night.

I have asked a while earlier: What happened to "Level 2 is endgame"? Having no gear progression isn't the only sacred cow being sacrificed. It's like they are going WoW endgame lite in the hope people won't mind because it's not full WoW and because it gives the impression that a bit dilution doesn't really break their philosophy at all.

Their first response to this mess is rather vague. While they are seemingly convinced that what they are doing is the right thing they haven't spoken about why they chose this path instead of many others. Closing the progression gap between exotics and legendaries is a nice thing and all and frankly it was one thing which mainly alienated a lot of players who thought legendaries are a must and have to be pursued in short term. However they seemed to have missed the point why that was so. It was not because Legendaries were weak in terms of power but because it felt very grindy to them as a whole. For them the endgame was: Get the legendary [skin] asap but without any plans beyond that - so these players may just have quit the game after they got their legendary item.
ANet's response to that is to make Legendaries more powerful and giving it its own tier, the same tier which happens to be also obsoleting Exotics as final gear step, in terms of power while adding a stop-gap layer for anyone feeling they could need a break in the Legendary hunt. That's a fairly dissonant approach because for once it means two things: They are believing that activities inbetween have to be purely itemhunt-related in order to be incentive and that gaining more power is a greater incentive to play than anything else they have to offer exposing a very small level of faith into their own core philosophy. It is basically the whole opposite of what they have been advertising during their development phase is happening.
If they had truly aimed for a middle-ground then Ascended gear would not be a separate tier over Exotic. They would have found another way around. But I guess that wasn't within their creative range of ideas.

As for having a separate game mode as a raid substitute - I think at least in that sense they are not straying too much off from their current design concepts. However as I said in the beginning that means their new endgame truly now begins officially at level 80 or at the level cap. Same as in traditional MMORPGs then. Also while they hinted that you could do part without this new infusion thing it's basically soft-gating their content. It's basically the same thing as getting shadow resistance gear to beat Mother Shahraz even though the entire instance was already heavy with Shadow damage. So the common perception that will grow out of this will be: You need Ascended gear to enter not just to progress further. Gear which ironically drops within the same dungeon (and through very rare Mystic Forge recipes apparently). That also is quite contradicting their own philosophy as stated during time of development. Because the concept of needing gear which drops within the same dungeon or through special recipes is very old and found to be archaic by the same designers who eventually did away with it.

Now they are making a few of these disgruntled legendary-hunting people happy while risking to alienate even more and it is happening. Given the heap of negative responses you can't really go and rationalize the easy way anymore and dismiss the crowd as vocal and whining minority.

[Chrno]

3 forms: +5 damage against agony mobs, +5 defense against agony mobs, combination of the two. big deal.

Where did they say it will be added to WvW?

this gw2 forums has to be the most negative forums about gw2 I have read, nearly every thread is just a massive qq fest. Its becoming depressing just to read them.

it's MMO-champion dude.
90% of threads (no matter the game) is a QQ fest

[Ravenblade]

it's MMO-champion dude.
90% of threads (no matter the game) is a QQ fest

Applies to most forums though.

Also for that matter I am not QQ'ing. In fact I rarely even get outraged in games and I've got pretty much experience in field of software/game design myself.

In the end it wholly depends on how their changes are going to play out. I think it just breaks the heart of many to see how ANet are bowing to their new vertical overlords - the players who screamed for a stat-power-based progression of some sort instead of saying: 'Hey guys, I know you want our game to be like WoW but if you don't like it then don't let the door hit you on your way out!'. But I think I am getting why they are willing to sacrifice so, it may have to do with this one. It's a matter of market-based ambitions rather than a matter of principles.

[Deleted]

Our Studio Design Director Chris Whiteside just posted this:

“I’d like to respond to concerns players have raised about ascended items. Please keep in mind that we’re releasing this as one portion of a massive November update that introduces and improves many aspects of challenge, progression, and rewards. With this and upcoming updates, we view ourselves as introducing large amounts of content with supporting systems and features, akin to an expansion pack, building on Guild Wars 2 through a series of live releases. So it’s important for us to be able to add an expansion pack’s worth of progression and rewards to support that content.

Our goal is not to create a gear treadmill. Our goal is to ensure we have a proper progression for players from exotic up to legendary without a massive jump in reward between the two. We will slowly add the remaining ascended gear items and legendary items in future updates to allow people time to acquire them as we add exciting new content that deserves exciting rewards. We will not be adding a new tier of gear every 3 months that we expect everyone to chase after and then get the next set and so on.

Ascended and infusion rewards will be available in both PvE and WvW over time, and be made available through all sorts of content around the world including existing content. PvP will remain unaffected to ensure our intended PvP balance going forward. We are also working on other reward and progression systems for the game that tie into current and new content and features. As you know we care very much about your support and opinion and are listening intently to what you say.
Finally we look forward to hearing your thoughts on the upcoming content, and we will ensure we share our thoughts with you on the experiences we share in the Lost Shores."

Chris Whiteside – Studio Design Director

not contextualising this, just adding it to the discussion as i got the impression not everyone saw the link posted above.