Is LFR far more painful then in the past? (Regards to loot)

[Madruga]

Well, it came from impossible to get loot due to griefing, to impossible to get loot because of RNG.

I say, let go of LFR as a viable gearing method. Just do it because you like the raid, or because you can get 90 Valor.

Even though there should be other better ways to get Valor than hoping a RF group can down Garalon...

[Ater]

I think the new system is a lot better then the old. In the old people was needing on everything even if it was not an upgrade and I lost count on how many times there were like 3-10 people from the same guild, everyone needing on an item to give it to a guildie.

[Cassidin]

I had people pass on loot in lfr before and give me or trade me things. I did likewise as well. This system removes that possibility.

Which (imo of course) is one of the best things about it. It's all very well being able to trade items you don't want. However the ability to do so meant that people would regularly have people begging and qqing over you getting the gear that they wanted, and would you please please please let them have it as they are so unlucky and have been running this for years and they need it so much more than you and they deserve it so much more than you.

I personally have had had times when I won items on Morchok or Ultrax and had people whisper me non-stop (until I put them on ignore) begging for that item - or calling me all kinds of names because I wouldn't give it to them.

The new system isn't perfect no, personally I would love to be able to see what everyone won. Removing that has made it less fun for some reason. However I am eternally grateful that people are no longer begging me for the item I won. There is still QQ.... but now the QQ is at the system instead of the other players for winning. I think thats a plus myself.

[Wildtree]

The new system isn't perfect no, personally I would love to be able to see what everyone won. Removing that has made it less fun for some reason.

/loot
BAM.. there's your wish fulfilled

[Cassidin]

I do agree the chance to get loot probably isn't less but it certainly feels much worse to everyone I encounter. Probably because you don't see ANY loot (for you or not) and get the taunting sack of coins.

I remember weeks of not getting any loot in DS (and I ran DS on two priests, two hunters, two druids, three DKs, two warlocks, a warrior and a shaman). This week in LFR I won shoulders and belt on a lock, helm on shaman and chest, legs and sword on a DK. Of course I still dont OFTEN win lots in LFR but just pointing out that the new way the loot is GIVEN TO US doesnt make it less likely to get loot.

In fact there is probably slightly higher chance.... Consider that if you want a chest from a boss. Under the old loot you had a slim chance that the chest would drop from the boss.... then once it did, you had a chance that you would win it. This chance again could be small. So TWO chance things had to match up for you to win an item. Now you have a chance of winning loot from the boss. One chance event. Ok, they boss may have more than one item that it could award you - and it may award you an item you already have instead of the item you want - but lets say the boss has three items it could give you.. thats 1 in 3 chance of you getting the one you want. When an item dropped before you may well be rolling against 10 other people - thats 1 in 10 chance you got it.

I believe this actually makes it a higher chance of getting an item than before - certainly not less. Also because loot is individual the DK next to you winning the plate chest you wanted doesnt stop you also winning it. Theoretically 5 people could win loot from a boss and all 5 get the same item.

The new loot system removes two things. One the ability to see what others win - and I personally would love to see that again. It also removes the ability to trade items and for that I am pleased as it removes the drama that almost always went along with it.

[Deleted]

Hmm, I have done 41 bosskills in total, counting LFR and Normal modes ( Excluding Sha of Huggles though ) And so far, despite having burned a good 12 coins or so, I have gotten 3 items, wich ofcurse is just all bad luck, but it is never the less frustrating at times

[Cassidin]

Even with the double rolls from charms it's just slower.

By my left hand I have a pack of cards.... Every time I draw an ace I give myself a jelly baby..... I randomly draw 10 cards and 4 of them are aces. Great 4 jelly babies!

By my right hand I have a pack of cards... Every time I draw an ace I give myself a jelly baby...... I randomly draw 10 cards and 1 of them is an ace. Damn, only one jelly baby.

This must prove that the pack of cards by my left hand gives me more chance at jelly babies right? Of course not - its just random chance. I could pull 20 cards from a pack and not find a single ace or I could draw 4 cards and find all four aces. Just because the system changes to another deck of cards and you suddenly find yourself unlucky doesnt mean its due to the new deck of cards.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 02:54 PM ----------

I have yet to receive anything other than gold in LFR, and I have cleared all content since it rolled out. However, I see some players that are literally wearing 6+ LFR pieces of gear. I understand chance being at play, but actually seeing the rolls or loot windows would at least be more satisfying even if i didn't get anything.

Totally agree with this. I think its the lack of seeing items drop that make people think the chances are less.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 02:58 PM ----------

In the old system, at the most, 10 people would roll against you unless it was a trinket. And even then, someone may inspect your gear and give it up to you. I loved my chances then and it kept me going.

This is of course after the item actually DROPPED. So if an item had a 25% drop chance (which is very high) you would start off with a 25% chance of getting it. If 10 people rolled for it (with role bonus) then that 25% is more like 2.5%. As for the later... its a nice dream that people would inspect your gear and decide you were more deserving... and yes I have seen that happen too.... however the chance of that is even less than the 2.5%......

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:03 PM ----------

Blizzard always has an intended period of time that it would take for one person to gear up through raids based on probability. One thing that for some reason people are not very upset about is that with the new loot system in MoP they have also significantly increased the intended gearing up timesink through LFR, on purpose.

Would you be so kind as to link your source for this information - as I have never seen anything that blizzard have stated their "gearing up time" or that they think it takes longer to gear now than before.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:05 PM ----------

I had no idea that was implemented. That should be removed. Ignorance is bliss.
But seriously there's absolutely no reason to keep such a salt-in-wound UI element in the game.

I see where this is very very frustrating.... but at least it shows that loot DOES drop... you just were not able to get it this time. Its a risk you take when you do a boss more than once I guess - although still really frustrating.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:06 PM ----------

Point is the difference is so big and obvious, that you do not need confirmation to see that the intended gearing up timesink is much larger now than it was in 4.3. This only goes for LFR though, normal/HC feels pretty much the same.

I have two toons at around 471 and two others around 464... and I only do LFR..... where is this obviously longer gear up time?

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:08 PM ----------

My only complaint about the new system is that it is possible for NO ONE to get loot from a boss kill. 4-5 people on each kill should ALWAYS get loot. Never should less than 4 people get loot.

I suppose they could say that equally 25 people could get loot (unlikely I know). Personally I agree with you - but I do see where they would likely say that on average it is at least as many people getting loot as before - maybe more.

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:21 PM ----------

LFR is kind a painful atm. People doesn't know the fights and rely on other players to do their work.

Maybe true... however I have had far fewer wipes in the new raids than I remember in DS...... Could almost guarantee that LFR would wipe on spine, ultraxion or just totally fail to single target on platform 3 on madness.....

---------- Post added 2012-11-13 at 03:31 PM ----------

/loot
BAM.. there's your wish fulfilled

True... I had forgotten about that. Would be nice if you could turn it on or off so you didnt need to do it each boss drop though - but yes you are correct. /loot shows who got what