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  1. #1
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Nov 2009

    Seems Staff is > MH+OH this time around

    For the people that are gearing up in LFR and the like it seems that for warlocks the Jin'ya, Orb of the Waterspeaker staff is btter than the Loshan, Terror Incarnate MH + Tornado-Summoning Censer OH.

    You can see here that the staff will give
    +16 Int
    +23 Sta
    +453 Haste (1.07%)
    +2 Spell Power when compared to the MH+OH.

    MH + OH will give
    +104 Crit (0.17%)
    +306 Hit (0.9%) when compared to the Staff.

    The overall secondary stats gains/losses both workout to be a total of 1.07% on either end. However you gain a minor spell-power gain on the Staff. Also given the scaling factor of Haste vs Crit, the 2h seems to benefit Afflic and Demo more than the respective MH+OH combo. If you rolling Destro (which is very useful for some fights like Elegon) or looking for ways to make up the missing Hit% you may favor the MH+OH combo. I personally believe that .9% hit is better off reforged from crit from other pieces of gear you may have.

  2. #2
    Mind if I roll need? xskarma's Avatar
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    May 2011
    Netherlands, EU
    Did you take into account that you can enchant the offhand and get a rather significant INT bonus? Off hand enchant for 165 INT

    Completely besides that, I'm human so I get 1% expertise from using a sword, so I'm going sword any way.
    Last edited by xskarma; 2012-11-19 at 07:58 PM.

  3. #3
    Are you taking the +165 int enchant for the OH in to consideration in your calculations?

    Edit: Beaten to it

  4. #4
    Hit is generally worth more than haste as a secondary stat, but overall even though the 1h+oh has a bit less INT/SP as well as secondary stats compared to the 2h... those secondary stats from the offhand are worth a bit more overall. There is one other important factor to keep in mind also... you can enchant that off hand for another 165 int. This puts the 1h+oh ahead of the 2h in this case... furthermore if you are a human that 1% extra hit (from expertise bonus) also comes into play

  5. #5
    Herald of the Titans MrHappy's Avatar
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    Nov 2009
    Quote Originally Posted by xskarma View Post
    Did you take into account that you can enchant the offhand and get a rather significant INT bonus? Off hand enchant for 165 INT
    No I did forget about that but I did some reforging math

    If you were to reforge the crit on the staff into hit the MH+OH would yeild
    +371 Crit (0.62%)
    +39 Hit (0.11%)
    making overall stats on the Staff still better

    If you do not care for hit reforge on staff and you are opting out on Mastery reforging Here is the total breakdown
    Staff Mastery reforging Crit => Mastery +267 (0.45)
    Mh+Oh reforging Crit => Mastery +308 Mastery (0.52)

    The forged Comparison of the items gives you the break down

    +16 Int
    +23 Sta
    +453 Haste (1.07%)
    +2 Spell Power

    +41 Mastery (0.07)
    +63 Crit (0.11%)
    +306 Hit (0.9%)

    Giving you a 0.01% of stat differences favoring the MH+OH which is virtually negligible...but giving the Staff better weighted stats that we seek. Given crit being our least wanted stat the .9% difference in hit is better made up via regorge and keeping the higher Haste stats

    Ignoring Human racials for the time being it is a trade off between 1% Haste vs 149int and .9% hit.

    Have to do some Simcrafts to see the differences between them but that Haste looks pretty attractive to me.....

  6. #6
    Fluffy Kitten Zinnin's Avatar
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    Apr 2010
    Because of the fact there is a cap on hit, you really can't take the fact that it has hit into too great of account. I generally just group all secondary stats into one number.

    However I could see the staff being better just because it is one piece of gear to upgrade through valor, instead of two. There is a pretty good chance that you will not upgrade all your gear 8 iLvls through valor by the end of a tier, meaning skipping the cost of 2k valor on a slot of gear might be worth something in the long run.

    That said, I will probably run sword...because I like swords.....
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  7. #7
    I've always thought warlocks should naturally be a more sword and offhand kind of class...the mages can keep the staffs.

    I wish blizzard would come out with either a legendary caster sword/dagger or offhand to offset the legendary staff. Sure some staffs look cool, but they all tend to look 'fancy'. I want something that looks dark, maybe a little evil and thats easier to do with a sword or dagger.

  8. #8
    MH OH is always better from a raw spell power perspective. Secondary stats are just that.
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  9. #9
    Prolly going for sword so I can finally use Rigormortis for xmog :S
    Last edited by Count Zero; 2012-11-19 at 08:43 PM.
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  10. #10
    no need to min max lfr loot, take what you can get

  11. #11
    Mechagnome Sweetz's Avatar
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    Jan 2010
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harpocrates View Post
    no need to min max lfr loot, take what you can get

    I'm into the staff! I believe the offhand + sword combo is better on the mages than it is on the locks, so I'd pass that combo to mages and take the staff.

  12. #12
    I am Murloc! Seezer's Avatar
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    Aug 2010
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    Why does the T14 BiS profile on EJ have Regal's over Terror? Regal doesn't have the legendary gem slot.
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  13. #13
    there is an elite heroic version of the sword, that prolly why its on the BIS, also its sha touched so u can add the legendary gem.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by zinnin View Post
    That said, I will probably run sword...because I like swords.....
    This will be my approach (though I expect to be limited by drops more than preference).

    The difference is so negligible that I'll take what I can get my hands on and / or personal preference, and I love swords.

  15. #15
    I've never understood their logic with the OH enchant. Why not equalise staves with MH/OH?
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  16. #16
    At this point after many elegon HM kills and 0 Terrace weapon so far... I'll just take the first that drops seriously, I'm kinda tired of my blue wand.

  17. #17
    Protectors of the Endless Heroic Elite drops a dagger that beats out both the sword and any staff (when it has an off-hand). It has more sp and secondary stats than any other 1 hander. This is including the bonus from the legendary gem.

    Edit: Just ran a quick sim and Jin'ya (staff) came out to be about 800dps behind Regal's Crackling Dagger (heroic elite) + Heroic Tornado off-hand.
    Last edited by Harsesis; 2012-11-20 at 06:20 AM.

  18. #18
    Gem taken into account ?

  19. #19
    Because it isn't clear from reading the thread, I thought I'd emphasize: Everything the OP has posted is wrong. MH/OH is always clearly (if only slightly) better than 2H this tier. Even if you compare only the LFR versions of the sha-touched weapons (combined with the LFR version of the off hand from blade lord) you end up with a difference of 149 intellect in favor of the MH/OH combo, vs 43 secondary stat points and 2 spell power in favor of the staff. 149 intellect wins every time.

    But yes, the absolute BiS is the heroic elite MH. - instant gear comparison for all classes / specs

  20. #20
    What exactly is the 'elite' flag on these items? Are they just super rare drops of the same item with the flag or what? I understand we have :
    10 man (normal)
    25 man (heroic)

    but where do the normal (elite) and heroic (elite) come from?

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