Do You Share My Cynicism?

[raddry]

The Earth is not overpopulated, if that's what you're attempting to say. It's far from being overpopulated as well. If the entire world lived with the population density of Paris, the entire population of the Earth would easily fit inside France.

You wouldn't even need France for that, Germany would be enough.

Also to the other guy talking about overpopulation. Since we're already taking about putting everybody in Germany's borders of a huge metropolis Paris style, we can also assume that the authority of that body is willing to put everyone on the same standard of living.
In such case, I think there would be quite enough of space all over the world, since we only take Germany, so that we could produce every single and possible need of everyone into that Germany metropolis.

Ofc people who don't like living in cities like Paris spanning for a huge territory of Germany would need to deal with it.

The problem today is that we're not using our planets resources and space efficiently or in a sustainable way.

[Deleted]

There's significantly more arable land than is necessary to sustain the population, and the population is leveling off as countries become more modern.
Overpopulation is not an issue.

Tell that to India who will become first as population in the next 20 years in the world, going past China. Tell that to Nigeria whose population will triple in the next 30 years if it continues in same trend.

And now tell me, if there's so much arable land, why do people starve right now? Why do 1 billion people starve right now? Because, according to all those factors I said, politics, distribution of resources, etc, some people have less and the rich will never give from them.

And how do I know the rich will never give from them? Well unfortunately I don't know what country you're from, but let's take UK. What does UK want? Well, many of the people want to go outside the EU. Why? because they don't want to support the poor nations anymore when they're so rich. So, guess the rich don't really want to support the poor countries. So the people there starve... hmmm... hold on, so Earth is not sufficient after all.

To add to this, for now, there's only so much water, drinkable water. No matter how much our population grows, the amount of drinkable water on the planet will not. Sure, there's the desalinazation plants to get water from the sea, but those are so expensive only some of the most rich countries have them, and they don't have that many.

And of course, wood for example. You have arable land, but to get more you need to cut trees, do you not? So then... you'll be lacking wood? And let's not forget that for that agriculture you need water. Sea water doesn't work. You need water for industry.

Unless, as I said, you want to live like in India and have no problem with that. If you like to get your potable water from the same river where people dump their dead and refuse and wash themselves, be my guest. And not get it purified, get it as it is, just go there with a bottle and get it.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 07:59 PM ----------

You wouldn't even need France for that, Germany would be enough.

Also to the other guy talking about overpopulation. Since we're already taking about putting everybody in Germany's borders of a huge metropolis Paris style, we can also assume that the authority of that body is willing to put everyone on the same standard of living.
In such case, I think there would be quite enough of space all over the world, since we only take Germany, so that we could produce every single and possible need of everyone into that Germany metropolis.

Ofc people who don't like living in cities like Paris spanning for a huge territory of Germany would need to deal with it.

The problem today is that we're not using our planets resources and space efficiently or in a sustainable way.

The other poster said there is no problem with overpopulation now. So, let's see, would the entire world agree to move in a small area like France/Germany/Texas etc right now? No? Then we have a problem. Because 1 billion people starve right now. Having all the people move in an area that small is utopia. It's like communism was supposed to work, good in theory but in practice it can't be applied.

And do you really think the people who don't like living in cities like Paris would just "deal with it"? Look now, people are making riots for smaller things then that, for this there would be true rebellions. Who could enforce this? Who could convince all to sit in one place? From what resources would you build a Germany sized Paris? How would you move monuments (since people won't agree to move forgetting their culture)? How would you deal with religion, nationalities, country sovreignty? How would you get the food from... South America to your population now sitting in Germany? How would you get enough fresh water for 7 billion people on such a small land? What would you do if something bad happened on the other side of the world? How would you deal with a sewage system? Where would you dump the refuse? What type of power would you use? From where would you get the resources for it? How would you get fanatics of two sides to sit in same area? How would you deal with different languages, cultures, pollution over the country-city?

Admit it, it's impossible. Sure, it sounds good in theory, if everyone worked together and got along and we'd be friends and share. So did communism.

[larrakeyah]

for now, there's only so much water, drinkable water. No matter how much our population grows, the amount of drinkable water on the planet will not. Sure, there's the desalinazation plants to get water from the sea, but those are so expensive only some of the most rich countries have them, and they don't have that many.

And keeps getting cheaper and cheaper. Where there's a will there's a way, where there's a need there's a will. Overpopulation is a non issue. With current technology and resources the world can sustain 16 billion people... on an american diet. In, let's say, 20 years, technology will allow to sustain even more.

[Deleted]

OP, quite frankly your post is trite, derivative and has already been asked COUNTLESS TIMES the world over by legions of moody teenagers without a shred of life experience.

Once you grow up a bit, you stop asking these redundant questions and accept the fact that human nature is human nature, there's probably very little you can do to change it, and your best bet is to live your own life as best you can and help those around you.

Humans aren't calculators, or walking moral compasses... in the context of our own time, we are barely civilized animals

[poser765]

OP, quite frankly your post is trite, derivative and has already been asked COUNTLESS TIMES the world over by legions of moody teenagers without a shred of life experience.

Once you grow up a bit, you stop asking these redundant questions and accept the fact that human nature is human nature, there's probably very little you can do to change it, and your best bet is to live your own life as best you can and help those around you.

Humans aren't calculators, or walking moral compasses... in the context of our own time, we are barely civilized animals

You will also have a chance to grow past the edgy self loathing attitude so many youths seem to have now. It seems like so many kids and young adults seem to think they have magically derived a simple yet unpopular philosophical truth that humans suck.

Well we don't. As a whole we are not nearly as mean, self interested, violent, and plague like to the earth as we seem to think we are.

[Valort]

Does anyone share my cynical outlook on the world, or am I alone?

I shared it. When I was a teen.

You eventually mature out of such thoughts by gaining wisdom and life experience.

Think of it as leveling up and learning new skills.

[Deleted]

You will also have a chance to grow past the edgy self loathing attitude so many youths seem to have now. It seems like so many kids and young adults seem to think they have magically derived a simple yet unpopular philosophical truth that humans suck.

Well we don't. As a whole we are not nearly as mean, self interested, violent, and plague like to the earth as we seem to think we are.

In fact, we are less and less over time, as we grow more prosperous.
I wonder how loud the Crusaders would laugh if they were told about Geneva conventions. Or what would be the look on the faces of peasants if told that they shouldn't burn forests to turn into grazing lands to help conserve nature. Or a noble/king when explained what human rights are.

We are getting better.

[warlocked]

The Earth is not overpopulated, if that's what you're attempting to say. It's far from being overpopulated as well. If the entire world lived with the population density of Paris, the entire population of the Earth would easily fit inside France.

That's besides what I was saying, however.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 08:37 AM ----------



So, you resign yourself to history? I won't.

However roughly 30% of our land is fit for agriculture

and we need at least 10 times more biomass in plants to sustain us as vegetarians

or 100 times more biomass in plants if we want to continue to eat meat

Never mind fresh water as an issue.

The issue is not anything along the lines of running out of space, it is running out of food, water and breathable air due to polution




With that said population curve is growing and hopefully we will see the day that our population goes into a peaceful decline. That said presently there is no need to war over resources considering that roughly 30% of all food produced is destroyed to keep prices high

[MAGAmobile]

I did, until I realized there is nothing I can do to help every single person out, make every person like me, or make every person I come across think highly of me or think I am right in what I am saying. I only do what I can to help, and that is good enough for me. The world is just too vast and diverse for one single person to make a global impact on it. There will be always be extremist assholes, nutjobs, morons, you name it we will have it. They are in the minority, no matter how vocal they are. People generally like to help others, not berate them with how stupid they are or how insignificant their opinions are or what have you.

If you see someone down in the dumps, smile for them. Sometimes, its the only thing you can do to make someones day better.

---------- Post added 2012-11-23 at 11:35 AM ----------

You are not alone, believe me.
The way humans try to claim dominance over each other and every living thing, it's insane.
I hate it, I hate those people to promote that type of thing.

We should be living in peace, not fighting, killing, and dominating everything we get our hands on.
So yeah, sometimes I'm keen to see Aliens rock up, and a unity be formed to combat them. Probably would lose, but atleast it would be some sort of unity.

Its part of human nature. We are programmed to want to be better at something then people around us, no matter how small or insignificant it really is. Peace does not come without war.

[Deleted]

Overpopulation is a non issue. With current technology and resources the world can sustain 16 billion people... on an american diet. In, let's say, 20 years, technology will allow to sustain even more.

What most people don't understand because of lack of elementar mathematic notions is "the exponential growth"

Is not the size of the actual population the one leading to overpopulation , but the fact it is in exponential growth. Witch mean ,at the curent % growth rate, is doubling every around 53 years .

To illustrate this using population: If we started with 1 million people and set the growth rate to a measly 1% per year, we’d find that it would take 694 years before we achieved a billion people. But we’d be at 2 billion people after only 100 more years, while the third billion would require just 41 more years. Then 29 years, then 22, and then finally only 18 years to add another, to bring us to 6 billion people. That is, each additional billion people took a shorter and shorter amount of time to achieve.

Dr. Albert Bartlett said, “The greatest shortcoming of the human race is the inability to understand the exponential function.” And he’s absolutely right.

---

Now let me give you an example to show the enormous numbers you can get with just a modest number of doublings.

Legend has it that the game of chess was invented by a mathematician who worked for a king. The king was very pleased. He said, “I want to reward you.” The mathematician said “My needs are modest. Please take my new chess board and on the first square, place one grain of wheat. On the next square, double the one to make two. On the next square, double the two to make four. Just keep doubling till you've doubled for every square, that will be an adequate payment.” We can guess the king thought, “This foolish man. I was ready to give him a real reward; all he asked for was just a few grains of wheat.”

But let's see what is involved in this. We know there are eight grains on the fourth square. I can get this number, eight, by multiplying three twos together. It's 2x2x2, it's one 2 less than the number of the square. Now that continues in each case. So on the last square, I’d find the number of grains by multiplying 63 twos together.

Now let’s look at the way the totals build up. When we add one grain on the first square, the total on the board is one. We add two grains, that makes a total of three. We put on four grains, now the total is seven. Seven is a grain less than eight, it's a grain less than three twos multiplied together. Fifteen is a grain less than four twos multiplied together. That continues in each case, so when we’re done, the total number of grains will be one grain less than the number I get multiplying 64 twos together. My question is, how much wheat is that?

You know, would that be a nice pile here in the room? Would it fill the building? Would it cover the county to a depth of two meters? How much wheat are we talking about?

The answer is, it's roughly 400 times the 1990 worldwide harvest of wheat. That could be more wheat than humans have harvested in the entire history of the earth. You say, “How did you get such a big number?” and the answer is, it was simple. We just started with one grain, but we let the number grow steadily till it had doubled a mere 63 times.

[Itisamuh]

I share in the cynicism, even if for different reasons. I have no faith in the human race, and the more liberal society becomes, the stronger that feeling is becoming.

[Queen of Hamsters]

Credits to obdigore for linking this a few weeks back.

So true. Some people just get off on thinking they're the only ones with a clue. Pathetic, really.

On topic: Not in the sense that I think I'm the one with a clue and others are oblivious, I know damned well that there's a ton of people trying to help but the fact is that this world will ALWAYS look the same as long as there are humans and a free will at play. Simple. Innocent people have been dying since the dawn of mankind, nothing new here.

If people REALLY wanted to, and weren't just all talk but no action, it would be easy to make sure that nobody starved to death in this world. It would require less moneygrubbing and more caring though, so ain't gonna happen.

[Powerogue]

We are in a very big population of humans at this stage. Don't think for a second you're the only one with your mentality.

Rational or dangerously bonkers, like-minded people will cling to one another and act.

That's part of the species: grouping. Or, as you call it, "idiotic factionalism". Nothing pumps people up more than an "us vs. them" mentality, it's why we have things like sports to fume it off harmlessly.

Over there, it's a little less harmless. I'd give it time, but I doubt resolution will happen until one side or the other is exterminated at this stage, given how long it's gone on.

[Uvwaex]

Lol.

If that's true, then why do people act the opposite way? I don't buy it.

I don't think you understand the sarcasm

[raddry]

walls of text

Of course it's impossible they way the society works, how people want/need different things, because of cultural differences etc.
I never said it is possible that way, I just said that if done well, it's technically possible. I mean that if you really want it, you could indeed do that but that's forgetting about social/cultural/governmental differencies. So it's only possible in theory just as you said.

[Deleted]

Everywhere I look, there's petty factionalism, hatred and blind zeal. I see jingos screaming for blood, innocent people dying, and people enjoying their lives in blissful ignorance in spite of this. In particular, the renewed conflict between Israel and Palestine has made me realize this to a greater extent. People always devolve to idiotic factionalism.

It seems no one can use common sense. No one can rise above the idiocy. Sometimes I wish for some alien fleet to pop up beside Earth and liberate it from itself.

Does anyone share my cynical outlook on the world, or am I alone?

It's human nature. Humans have evolved from apes and today's apes represent the unchained human society quite good. Getting pissed about human nature is very unhealthy and will take you nowhere. Learn to live with the morons.

[OneSent]

Sometimes I wish for some alien fleet to pop up beside Earth and liberate it from itself.

I agree. I think the world as a whole is too caught up in the most trivial of matters and I would love for something spectacular or 'out-of-this-world' to make everyone just stop and think; if only for just a minute.

[Dezerte]

All this talk and excuses about it being in our human nature to be greedy, evil etc.

It's possible to suppress these emotions, most us probably already practice it today.

[melodramocracy]

Not alone at all. Humans are terrible creatures for the most part.

[Rukentuts]

Not alone at all. Humans are terrible creatures for the most part.

Agreed entirely, and it seems like most of the "people" breeding today are the ones that shouldn't be allowed to at all.