Isn't it about time the Mens' Rights Movement stopped being treated like a joke?

[ThatCanadianGuy]

How about we worry less about men's and women's rights and more about people's rights. Aren't we all on the same team?

Exactly.

By now you would think that people could look at humans as a whole. However, we still separate people into groups. Male or female, black or white, it's all the same. Let's worry about people as a whole for a change. Benefit everybody

[Laize]

i think itd be safe to say that most "mens issues" stem from "womens issues".

So it would be equally safe to say that most womens issues stem from mens issues. Stop with the stupid semantics. A guy is getting the shit beat out of him, almost no one cares and you're calling it a women's issue.

[starlord]

So it would be equally safe to say that most womens issues stem from mens issues. Stop with the stupid semantics. A guy is getting the shit beat out of him, almost no one cares and you're calling it a women's issue.

no its not equally safe to say. and that was exactly the reasoning given. look at the root of the problem instead of the result.

[Laize]

no its not equally safe to say. and that was exactly the reasoning given. look at the root of the problem instead of the result.

Well guess fucking what, feminists aren't exactly putting the attitudes about female violence at the fore of their platform. So someone has to fucking do it. Honestly the idea that a man getting the shit beat out of him is a women's issue takes such an amazing amount of mental leaps it's hard for me to follow it.

[starlord]

Well guess fucking what, feminists aren't exactly putting the attitudes about female violence at the fore of their platform. So someone has to fucking do it.

but its not really a mens rights issue is it? its the perception of females as weak causing issues.

[Laize]

but its not really a mens rights issue is it? its the perception of females as weak causing issues.

That's a fucking stupid position to take. Society accepting that it's ok for men to get the shit beat out of them as long as it's by a woman is a goddamn men's rights issue.

[terrorsolda]

no its not equally safe to say. and that was exactly the reasoning given. look at the root of the problem instead of the result.

Yes, but it takes the acceptance of the problem in order to determine it's cause in the first place. I would, however, argue that this is not simply a "women's problem," as you put it, but a problem due to stereotypes of both genders. Women being construed as physically "weak" is not enough to explain people's lack of caring for the man being abused. It's also the standard of men as strong with stiff chins and emotions.

[starlord]

Yes, but it takes the acceptance of the problem in order to determine it's cause in the first place. I would, however, argue that this is not simply a "women's problem," as you put it, but a problem due to stereotypes of both genders. Women being construed as physically "weak" is not enough to explain people's lack of caring for the man being abused. It's also the standard of men as strong with stiff chins and emotions.

because emotions are weak feminine things, and therefore bad.

[Laize]

because emotions are weak feminine things, and therefore bad.

And getting the shit beat out of you and not complaining is a masculine thing, and therefore good.

[starlord]

That's a fucking stupid position to take. Society accepting that it's ok for men to get the shit beat out of them as long as it's by a woman is a goddamn men's rights issue.

thats still ignoring the reason behind the view. im just saying that if womens problems are solved, so will be mens. all they are is a byproduct of a misogynistic society.

[DJKalteraphine]

I mean... come on. Every movement has their crazy fringe members who are usually the loudest. Of course the feminists have valid points as well but can't we accept that both are legitimate groups with legitimate concerns?

Men don't have enough "legitimate concerns" to constitute a movement. The so-called "Men's Rights" movement is treated as a joke because it is a joke. You might as well be arguing about white power.

[Letmesleep]

because emotions are weak feminine things, and therefore bad.

I know you're being sarcastic here and don't really believe this, but I'm just going to comment on it anyway. The idea that emotions are feminine is inherently sexist because of the implication that it is undesirable to have feminine traits. The reality many don't seem to realize is that emotions are a human trait that isn't exclusive to males or females. Everyone has them, men just somehow adopted the idea that by suppressing emotions and pretending they didn't feel anything meant that they really didn't.

Emotions will find a way to express themselves through one behavior or another, it just usually means that men will exhibit those emotions in ways that are less healthy than just discussing them. As a man myself, I'd really like to see other men acting like adults and admitting they don't have all their shit together and accepting each other when that fact inevitably comes to light.

[Laize]

thats still ignoring the reason behind the view. im just saying that if womens problems are solved, so will be mens. all they are is a byproduct of a misogynistic society.

Ok then let me ask you this. Even if I buy that "if all women's issues are solved, so will men's" then what do you expect us to do? Wait for women's groups to get around to the whole "beating the shit out of men is okay" thing in their own sweet goddamn time?

[terrorsolda]

because emotions are weak feminine things, and therefore bad.

So basically you're insinuating that men are supposed to be strong simply because women are considered weak? I'm sorry, but that's a load of bullshit.

I could, on the other hand, say that because men are, in general, physically larger beings, they were supposed to be the protector and breadwinner of the family, and thus this is a "men's issue." And it is commonly stereotypes that women prefer men who are macho and don't complain, making this a men's issue caused by women. But this leaves all other context behind and makes one group the victim, which is not true.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 12:23 AM ----------

thats still ignoring the reason behind the view. im just saying that if womens problems are solved, so will be mens. all they are is a byproduct of a misogynistic society.

Some of the issues I feel men are facing, specifically having to do with child custody and divorce, were created through attempts to solve some of the issues women were facing.

[Laize]

Men don't have enough "legitimate concerns" to constitute a movement. The so-called "Men's Rights" movement is treated as a joke because it is a joke. You might as well be arguing about white power.

Violence being acceptable against men isn't legitimate?
Men being taken through the ringer in 96+% of family court cases isn't legitimate?
The idea that men cause most crime and die earlier "because that's just how it is" rather than any meaningful research into WHY this happens isn't legitimate?

Fuck that.

[starlord]

So basically you're insinuating that men are supposed to be strong simply because women are considered weak? I'm sorry, but that's a load of bullshit.

im insinuating that there is a rejection and demonization of things considered feminine in western society, which goes back thousands of years and lingers to this day.

I could, on the other hand, say that because men are, in general, physically larger beings, they were supposed to be the protector and breadwinner of the family, and thus this is a "men's issue." And it is commonly stereotypes that women prefer men who are macho and don't complain, making this a men's issue caused by women. But this leaves all other context behind and makes one group the victim, which is not true.

well my assertion is actually supported by history.

[DJKalteraphine]

Violence being acceptable against men isn't legitimate?
Men being taken through the ringer in 96+% of family court cases isn't legitimate?
The idea that men cause most crime and die earlier "because that's just how it is" rather than any meaningful research into WHY this happens isn't legitimate?

Fuck that.

Men run the world, so if the world is shitty, it's because of men.

[Wells]

That's a fucking stupid position to take. Society accepting that it's ok for men to get the shit beat out of them as long as it's by a woman is a goddamn men's rights issue.

Its called benevolent sexism. They don't care that she's hitting him because she's a woman and she's weak.

---------- Post added 2012-11-24 at 08:28 AM ----------

Men run the world, so if the world is shitty, it's because of men.

There's some truth to this.

[Laize]

Men run the world, so if the world is shitty, it's because of men.

Lol... yeah ok. Men don't run the WESTERN world. Everyone gets an equal vote.

Besides that, women have done nothing to show they'd run the world any better. They're certainly no less violent.

[Wells]

Lol... yeah ok. Men don't run the WESTERN world. Everyone gets an equal vote.

Yeah women get their pick of which man is in charge. Its less so now, but for the last several hundred years western society has been ruled by men. There's a pretty solid argument to be made that the current set of discriminatory practices that men see are a result of men.