Isn't it about time the Mens' Rights Movement stopped being treated like a joke?

[Rukentuts]

You cannot believe that life is as simplistic or black and white as this posts makes it out to be!

The decisions might not be easy, but they are definitely simple.

[Wells]

I mean people are seriously acting like "pay everything yourself or abort because I don't want to care for this child" is the same as "I don't want to carry this child so I'm aborting and neither of us will pay anything".

[Rukentuts]

All of it comes down to a bunch of guys who don't want to live with the consequences of the decisions they make.

Just like abortion does the exact same thing.

Round and round we go!

[obdigore]

This situation is still inherently inequal, and if our not-perfect-but-still-better system is also going to be inequal, it's going to have to favor the mother. Sorry.

This is pretty much my opinion as well. Since the situation itself is inherently unequal, we (I) do not expect equal rights, although I feel the courts could do better with both child support and custody situations.

[Wells]

Just like abortion does the exact same thing.

Round and round we go!

Having an abortion is dealing with the consequence.

[starlord]

Safe Haven laws are necessary and they save baby's lives. That should be the most important thing here. I agree there should be provisions in the law to allow for fathers to take custody of a child turned over by its mother....without penalizing the mother. Maybe a DNA database or something. But don't pretend this is a law intended specifically to strip fathers of their rights. This is to save lives and it does that every single day.

So some part of a law accidentally may not be fair to a man?? Really? Welcome to being a woman. Or a minority. Or any other demographic other than a white male in America. So work to change it, don't stomp your feet and hang an entire "father's right's" or "men are so discriminated against" campaign on a law that is primarily meant to save the life of babies.

this is why mens rights is regarded as a joke.

"we want fairer treatment in family courts..."
fair enough

"... so we will be able to gain custody of our children..."
alright

"... so we can abandon them anonymously at the fire station to avoid paying child support."

yeah... no.

[Nanotech]

You cannot believe that life is as simplistic or black and white as this posts makes it out to be! Seeing as how you never have had and never will ever even have to entertain the idea of having an abortion you cannot know whether or not its a "happy" thing for a woman to go through and that the consequences of that decision won't be with her for the rest of her life.

Even if we don't take the emotional side of the abortion equation into consideration, the woman takes a much greater risk by having the abortion than does the man. He might not sleep that night, she might bleed to death or be left sterile for the rest of her life. Seems not so equally happy ending to me.

[buck008]

All of it comes down to a bunch of guys who don't want to live with the consequences of the decisions they make.

Seriously. It's ok for men to unilaterally decide that they don't want to pay for a kid that they helped to create, but it's not ok for a woman to unilaterally decide that she's keeping the kid and they both have to pay for it. That isn't equality at all, that is making the system better for men and far, far worse for kids.

[Rukentuts]

Having an abortion is dealing with the consequence.

Yeah, termination of a fetus (and the obligations that would come from it) is dealing with it. But apparently terminating rights and obligations are not?

---------- Post added 2012-11-26 at 11:10 PM ----------

Seriously. It's ok for men to unilaterally decide that they don't want to pay for a kid that they helped to create, but it's not ok for a woman to unilaterally decide that she's keeping the kid and they both have to pay for it. That isn't equality at all, that is making the system better for men and far, far worse for kids.

You make the grave error of assuming that because a guy declines, she will change her mind.

[stumpy]

After a hundred pages, it seems the answer to the topic question is "The MRM can stop being treated like a joke once they ask this question of themselves instead of angrily shouting it at everybody else."

[buck008]

No, as it stands now, paternal rights and responsibilities are pretty murky and the link between them is fragile at best.

There are instances of men being forced to pay child support (but losing visitation) for children that are not theirs.

There are instances of men paying child support for kids they haven't seen in years because the mother decided to move away and the courts said "fuck you".

Shit like that is way on the decline. The system isn't nearly as bad as it was, say, 20 years ago. It's by no means perfect but it is better.

[Rukentuts]

After a hundred pages, it seems the answer to the topic question is "The MRM can stop being treated like a joke once they ask this question of themselves instead of angrily shouting it at everybody else."

The correct answer is: "The MRM can stop being treated like a joke when those that think of it that way get past their personal bias". There has been no "angry yelling" for quite a bit (if ever) in here.

[v2prwsmb45yhuq3wj23vpjk]

All of it comes down to a bunch of guys who don't want to live with the consequences of the decisions they make.

All abortion comes down to is a bunch of girls who don't want to live with the consequences of the decisions they make, right?

Stop oversimplifying the issue.

[stumpy]

Yeah, termination of a fetus (and the obligations that would come from it) is dealing with it. But apparently terminating rights and obligations are not?

Woman aborts child. Physical/financial cost incurred by man: zero.

Man washes his hands. Physical/financial cost incurred by woman in all possible scenarios: nonzero.

[starlord]

Shit like that is way on the decline. The system isn't nearly as bad as it was, say, 20 years ago. It's by no means perfect but it is better.

even laize admitted that theres has been a "paradigm shift" in favor of fathers.

no thanks to the MRM.

[buck008]

The correct answer is: "The MRM can stop being treated like a joke when those that think of it that way get past their personal bias". There has been no "angry yelling" for quite a bit (if ever) in here.

No. The MRM needs to pick its battles better. Because there are real issues out there that they can fix. The one we are currently talking about just isn't one of them. If you can't see that you aren't making the situation equal, you're making it better for only the men, then there really isn't anything else I can say to you on this matter. You are just willfully not seeing it.

[starlord]

No. The MRM needs to pick its battles better. Because there are real issues out there that they can fix. The one we are currently talking about just isn't one of them. If you can't see that you aren't making the situation equal, you're making it better for only the men, then there really isn't anything else I can say to you on this matter. You are just willfully not seeing it.

it kind of makes you wonder if all that venom directed at feminists isnt a projection.

[stumpy]

The correct answer is: "The MRM can stop being treated like a joke when those that think of it that way get past their personal bias". There has been no "angry yelling" for quite a bit (if ever) in here.

It's not "personal bias" that's making us point out that your "ideal solutions" favor men when the problem is already slanted against women by nature.

[Destruktion]

All of it comes down to a bunch of guys who don't want to live with the consequences of the decisions they make.

Is this your last stand then? A guilt trip? Forgive me for being young and not wanting my education and possibly my life ruined by a drunken one-night stand.

[Aalyy]

The decisions might not be easy, but they are definitely simple.

WTH does that even mean? What a weird cryptic post from a man who will never know if the decision to have or not have an abortion is either easy, simple, or a degree of both.