Were Worgen originally going to be a new Horde race?

[Immitis]

The alliance didnt do it. Go play warcraft 3. Arthas, a human did it. Kind of pissed off the blood elfs.

Though siding with the horde still didnt make since as the belfs hate undead more than they hate humans.

technically a blood elf did it. if dar'khan didnt turn off the stones to let arthas in the blood elves couldve just stood inside the shield and stick their tongues out and say na na na you cant get me!.

in fact i think sylvanas actually did that before realizing the shield was off O-O

[Stormdash]

I think the Worgen certainly could have been set up as a Horde race -- the whole "giving Alliance a monster race" is a Doylist reason to make them Alliance, but it's actually contrary to Watsonian logic. Because... things that are monsters are not really all that historically welcomed by the Alliance. It would have been totally believable for the cursed Gilneans to come to the Alliance for help and been met with "ack! kill it!" So they could have been a Horde race, sure.

But I doubt that was ever actually something they thought about doing.

[Deleted]

I think the Worgen certainly could have been set up as a Horde race -- the whole "giving Alliance a monster race" is a Doylist reason to make them Alliance, but it's actually contrary to Watsonian logic. Because... things that are monsters are not really all that historically welcomed by the Alliance. It would have been totally believable for the cursed Gilneans to come to the Alliance for help and been met with "ack! kill it!" So they could have been a Horde race, sure.

But I doubt that was ever actually something they thought about doing.

When they wanted to join the Alliance in Wolfheart, Varian first rejected them, though for a different reason. He didn't want to give them a second chance, because they already bailed out on them once. He thought of them as cowards.

[Evil Inside]

Worgen are lore-tied to gilneas so I dunno how that'd work out.

[LuminousAether]

Wouldn't believe so, since the current worgen was humans, and the original worgens was once Night Elves. And well, Goblin has mostly been in the waved area, since most just works for highest price. And well, the ones we have got saved and thought they needed to repay by joining. (If I remember right)

That reasoning doesn't follow. Did you conveniently forget about Undeads?

[Demoncharger]

Worgen are lore-tied to gilneas so I dunno how that'd work out.

They are now, prior to Cata they weren't. Worgen, Arugal, SFK and that area was never tied to Gilneas in lore. It surprised a lot of people to find out that he was a Gilnean and that area had belonged to Darius Crowley and Gilneas. Gilneas had been completely forgotten about by even the developers who admitted it when asked about the status of Gilneas.

Prior to Cata, Ur speculated that the worgen came from another world where they battled the Lords of Emerald Flame. Arugal summoned them to Silverpine Forest at the behest of the Kirin Tor to fight the Scourge and that night elf summoned them to fight in the War of the Saytr.

[BrerBear]

When they wanted to join the Alliance in Wolfheart, Varian first rejected them, though for a different reason. He didn't want to give them a second chance, because they already bailed out on them once. He thought of them as cowards.

In Wolfheart, there wasn't noticeable bigotry towards the Worgen due to the curse, only to their Gilnean past as Alliance deserters.

Which is interesting now that the Alliance has welcomed Draenei, Worgen, and Pandaren. Kinda quashes the racist / bigot accusations.

[Justignoreme]

Blood Elves were NEVER a part of the Alliance. ... So, Blood Elves were never part of the Alliance.

Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong
Wrong entirely, wrong about the fact Kael'thas and his blood elves were taking orders from Garithos as part of that remnant faction of Alliance in Lordaeron (along with dwarves), the blood elves cemented a dislike and distrust for the Alliance because of a perceived betrayal in Dalaran by the Alliance towards their people, and the fact that Lor'themar refers to "old Alliances" in the new scenarios and is specifically talking about Varian Wrynn and humans/Alliance speaks volumes over your uninformed "data".

[yetgdhfgh]

Such a shame the worgen and the forsaken are enemy's seeing that they have so much in common

They are both former neighbours, they were both humans struck down by a terrible affliction, they are both seen as monsters by there respective faction

If they couldve united the northern kingdoms couldve formed a 3rd faction or made the horde unstoppable

[Netherspark]

Did you read the part of the interview where J. Allen Brack said that Worgen were originally intended to be Horde?

He didn't say it was intended, he said they had considered it. There's a difference.

[Deleted]

I dont think so.

Worgen were chosen for the Alliance because they felt they needed a more "monster like" race

Yeah. Players always got the impression that the Horde were the more "serious" faction. Until they decided to give you guys Blood Elves anyway.

[Dreknar20]

Yeah. Players always got the impression that the Horde were the more "serious" faction. Until they decided to give you guys Blood Elves anyway.

well to me, them being the "monster" race only half succeded.
Cause Worgen are not really a new race, they are still essentially humans, just with fur

[Wiredmana]

Worgens in the hord...

Goblins in the alliance? no
Ogres in the alliance? no
Nagas in the alliance? no
(Insert x race here) in the alliance? no

The Pandaren were going to be Alliance in Burning Crusade and it was briefly planned to be so in Cataclysm.

That being said; there's no lore that suggests Humans would ever reaccept Worgen into the Alliance if it were not for the Blood Elves. They broke off from the Alliance, barricaded themselves behind a wall and never let a soul inside. Not even to save them from the Scourge. Farmhands and Southshore had to fend for their own. How anyone survived is a mystery to me.

Now THAT being said; There's small chunks of Lore that would suggest the Forsaken would never forgive them either - Such as when you see Sylvanas appearing to hold a grudge when it comes to taking of Gilneas. Yes, she was ordered to, that doesn't give a single piece of reasoning why she or the Forsaken was so damn incensed while doing it. After all - The Forsaken were humans of Lordaeron of the time and I could see damn well the Forsaken hold a grudge against someone that refused to spare them their lives.

Related comic: http://www.awkwardzombie.com/index.p...0&comic=122710

[Kaleredar]

Such a shame the worgen and the forsaken are enemy's seeing that they have so much in common

They are both former neighbours, they were both humans struck down by a terrible affliction, they are both seen as monsters by there respective faction

If they couldve united the northern kingdoms couldve formed a 3rd faction or made the horde unstoppable

The Worgen retain a sort of... nobility and humanity the Forsaken lack. The forsaken are largely left to their own devices up in their little festering nook (with the blood elves being largely forgotten.) I very much think the forsaken would resent having a directly neighboring "check" on their power grab, just like Sylvanas resents the horde's interference in her genocidal rampage now.

The degree to which the Worgen were tossed out as the next horde race wasnt exactly expanded upon... Precisely, when it was posited, and how much it was expanded on. Maybe they shot it down because... they decided it didn't make any sense to ditch them in the Horde.

We don't even know if they even intended Gilnean worgen to be the horde's worgen. They could very well have been random worgen out of somewhere in Kalimdor.

[Scummer]

The alliance didnt do it. Go play warcraft 3. Arthas, a human did it. Kind of pissed off the blood elfs.

Though siding with the horde still didnt make since as the belfs hate undead more than they hate humans.

For the second time I'm referring to the Blood Elf starting zone where Sentinels and a Dwarf are spying and sabotaging Quel'thalas.
The fact they were open to Alliance ambassadors shows that they still weren't prepared to completely call it quits with the Alliance despite their own arrogant beliefs about them. Why the Alliance would then go and ruin this is beyond me.

[Deleted]

In Wolfheart, there wasn't noticeable bigotry towards the Worgen due to the curse, only to their Gilnean past as Alliance deserters.

Which is interesting now that the Alliance has welcomed Draenei, Worgen, and Pandaren. Kinda quashes the racist / bigot accusations.

Alliance was never racist to begin with.

---------- Post added 2012-11-25 at 12:30 PM ----------

He didn't say it was intended, he said they had considered it. There's a difference.

That's just nit-picking. And it's not like Worgen was going to be Alliance all along and they sat down and considered for 5 seconds giving them to Horde. The original idea was to give them to the Horde. So they were probably planned to go to Horde for some time until they decided against it.

And if you want to be nit-picky, he doesn't even use the word "considered"

In the beginning the theory was to have Worgen on the Horde and Goblin on the Alliance.

Meaning that when they came up with adding the races to the game, they wanted to give Worgen to Horde and Goblin to Alliance.

[mordale]

For the second time I'm referring to the Blood Elf starting zone where Sentinels and a Dwarf are spying and sabotaging Quel'thalas.
The fact they were open to Alliance ambassadors shows that they still weren't prepared to completely call it quits with the Alliance despite their own arrogant beliefs about them. Why the Alliance would then go and ruin this is beyond me.

was there any actual proof they were behind the malfunctions?
keep in mind at that time the blood elves were turning to fel magics to slake their thirst, not to mention using mind controlling magics to corral their population and imprisoning a naaru as they bled it of its holy light energies.

[Deleted]

For the second time I'm referring to the Blood Elf starting zone where Sentinels and a Dwarf are spying and sabotaging Quel'thalas.
The fact they were open to Alliance ambassadors shows that they still weren't prepared to completely call it quits with the Alliance despite their own arrogant beliefs about them. Why the Alliance would then go and ruin this is beyond me.

The Kaldorei were spying on the Blood Elves because they didn't trust them. The Highborne, who later became the High Elves, were responsible for the Sundering, so the Night Elves were afraid that the magic-addicted High Elves were again meddling with dangerous powers. Considering what Kael'thas did they had good reason to believe that.There are still High Elves loyal to the Alliance, though. The Kaldorei didn't go in there to eradicate the Blood Elves. It's unfortunate that it was something that led them to joining the Horde, but I would still say the distrust for the High Elves was justified.

[Scummer]

It's unfortunate that it was something that led them to joining the Horde, but I would still say the distrust for the High Elves was justified.

Which is why it defies logic and feels forced.
Didn't it not occur to the Alliance that spying and sabotaging Quel'thalas would force them into the Horde or into open hostility? It just comes across to me a like a forced series of events to push them into the Horde.

[Zaelsino]

I always assumed the draenei starting zone takes place before the blood elf one. The timeline fits a lot better, since the status quo in Quel'Thalas seems to have been quite some time (months, probably) after Kael'thas took over TK, kicked the draenei out and shipped M'uru back home. On the other hand, the draenei crash land their ship and you start off fresh from the wreckage, scrambling to find survivors.

The draenei form a bond with the night elves after their starting zone, so chances are they informed them about what they saw Kael's lackeys doing: palling around with demons. Hence the Sentinel squad going in to see what the blood elves in QT were up to, since at that point there wasn't a public distinction between the blood elves on Azeroth and Kael's dealings with the Legion.