Man Kills Two Teens Robbers

[GreatOak]

I honestly can see the line between if you're being serious or just trolling at this point... Why are you so bitter? I see a lot of this kind of thing. "Americans are all ignorant, etc etc, insert random generalization here." most threads I see, or for that matter, youtube comments. It's always some holier than thou European bashing on America and how horrible we are. Sometimes the inbreds get out of their cages and say stupid shit on the internet but, my god when an American goes to Europe to sight see, they want to be there. I work in a restaurant in NYC and my god the amount of Europeans that come here for vacation and just end up bashing on America is ridiculous... If you hate it here so much why in the hell do you come here?!

Can't tell you, but from my extended experience in Europe a lot of them (a significant amount) love to insult us in a hateful manner, whereas Americans just act uncultured at their worst. Americans like Europeans a lot. It's easier to just say you're Canadian honestly. You don't have to act or speak differently (unless youre from the south) and you don't have to deal with the bullshit.

[Themius]

Honestly, all the people trying to justify these kids, both here and on facebook, are pretty tiresome. These kids were criminals. You literally cannot say "they were good people!" if they were busy breaking the law when they were killed.

The fact that they were killed, sure, that's a tragedy, especially under the circumstances in which it happened. But to try to defend them on the basis of their reputation is just plain stupid.

When you encroach upon someone else's rights, expect yours to be violated as well.

Let's remember we don't know if that's how it really happened. It's weird for people to break into a house in daylight. The man executed two teens and never intended to call the cops, the neighbor did when he was suspicious of him. All we have is his side, we don't know his side is even the truth. So why all the condemning?

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:49 PM ----------

The TSA wouldnt like that though

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 07:42 PM ----------


I'm half black too and none of that applies anymore. Criminals have always been criminals.

But at no point should having compassion for a criminal make you worse than them. It's just empathy and understanding. Something which is lacking.

[Deleted]

Let's remember we don't know if that's how it really happened. It's weird for people to break into a house in daylight. The man executed two teens and never intended to call the cops, the neighbor did when he was suspicious of him. All we have is his side, we don't know his side is even the truth. So why all the condemning?

here where i live there are probably more robberies in daylight than during the night, expecially in holidays. argument invalid.

[Torq]

Let's remember we don't know if that's how it really happened. It's weird for people to break into a house in daylight. The man executed two teens and never intended to call the cops, the neighbor did when he was suspicious of him. All we have is his side, we don't know his side is even the truth. So why all the condemning?

Given the evidence so far, it seems pretty clear that they broke into his house (violated his rights).

He also admitted he used more force than required. That's pretty terrible as well.

As an aside, if his house had been burglarized numerous times before, it's usually a sign that the burglar(s) know who lives there. He's an old man; they were teens. It's not that weird that they broke in in the middle of the day.

[Deleted]

America...just wow. What a fucked up place.


Infracted.

[Eon]

I have lived in NYC for the majority of my life. I will say and have said Americans are very nice people. That doesn't change the fact the culture is still very "me centric" you can be great people but also selfish at the same time. I accept it as part of American culture.

I understand the point you're trying to make. You've literally reiterated it several times. The point I'm trying to make, and the point you keep ignoring is that this whole "Americans are very me centric thing" is not an American trait but, just a human trait... It's in our nature to survive and make life easier for ourselves... And I'm truly curious where you're from because no matter where you're from there's going to be differences of opinions and unless you came from a beehive and were all connected through hivemind there's no way that you came from a perfect place where everyone looked out for each other and didn't try to further their own goals before others.

[SirRobin]

Meh... He'll get off as long as he has a half decent lawyer. He may not have known if there were only two taking part in this home invasion. So he could still have been justifiably fearful for his life when he killed the one to keep her from warning potential others still upstairs. He may have been in that basement all night, afraid that others may have been waiting to ambush him. Covering why he didn't go to the neighbors until the next day. Supposedly he had been robbed before and had guns taken. So no reason to believe they wouldn't be armed. Living alone in a remote area so he may not have believed help was anywhere nearby. More justification for believing his life was still in danger. His "cold" demeanor, after the fact, could be explained away as him still being in a state of shock over what he did while believing his life was in danger.

Bet they try and plea deal him out with a suspended sentence.

[Kezotar]

Morale of the story. " Stupid teenagers, don't break into peoples houses. " Regardless of what he did or the circumstances - fact remains - the stupid girls shouldn't have tried to break in to someones house and rob them. I'm sure if I'd see two people in my house in the middle of the night - snatching my stuff - I'd be scared as hell and would grab the first weapon at sight. If I even felt threatened - Even the slightliest, I don't know if they have weapons hidden. - I would take actions. I'd hit with a mup, bring out the knives from the kitchen and play - Zoro from One Piece (jk).

You have to take this case in parts. It's a murder scenario and a break in scenario. Those girls wont get punished for what they did - Well they did.. They're dead. - But what most people do is looking it at this way - Man shot two girls breaking into his house. He enjoyed it and had fun. The man is the bad guy here. It's just totally fine to break into someones house. - Even if the person was lying on the ground " Defenseless as it might've looked " I wouldn't let anything to chances. What if they got a knife in their backpocket? What if they even had a gun? - Now you'll most likely say or think, they didn't have any weapons. - Problem is - How would I - Waking up in the middle of the night - Seeing two strangers snatching stuff from my house know that? I wouldn't.

It's not that I want to defend the man for murdering someone - regardless the state or circumstances I don't rally care - but I don't wish to support the girls doing so. If you start supporting them - Oh you did nothing wrong , RIP luvluvluv - What kind of picture would this give to the new generation? It's always scenarios like this. Girls tend to do mistake and most of the times excused.

Anyone remember the bleach girl? I did a mistake - Behind hundred of mistakes - Kills herself and everyone in the whole world is in shock and trauma. Thousand and million have commited suicide - something that is stupid - and most of them with reason such as : ugly, bullied for absolutely no reason, people don't like them. What do these guys get? Forgotten in a well. While when the media makes this all big and grown up - Bam - Poor girl, did nothing wrong. Even though she streamed pornography of a underaged girl to many people over the internett, leaked nuke pictures of herself - Which is extremely illegal. - Yet - Forgiven and supported in mass. It saddens me that people get bullied as I don't wish to give you a wrong impresion. But I feel more sorry towards her mother which had to suffer from this. But I'm going too much off topic.

My point being - We're starting a new YOLO trend. The most stupidiest crimes ever occur. I can't remember last time I've seen a guy done some crime and gotten all high famous of it. Seems to be a trend with girls, mistakes occur alot with them and the world forgives them as easy as that.. ( I know one of them is a guy )

[Olianda]

I'm in the middle here. If there have been a string of break-ins in the area, I can understand the initial response. If my brother had had $10,000 stolen recently, I'd sure as hell be on edge. I might even shoot first. I can also understand panicking and hiding the bodies. On the other hand, a kill shot like that was not necessary at all.

Also, 'Yes, she had an addiction problem and stuff, but that doesn't mean she deserves to get murdered at 18 years old,' Shaeffel said. 'I understand they came there to rob them, or whatever, but shoot them in the shoulder and call the cops.' and 'It doesn't matter what they were or weren't doing there,' Mike Boulley wrote. 'They were KIDS that didn't deserve to die. Defending your property against armed burglars is one thing, gunning down two unarmed teenagers is just inexcusable.' quotes made me chuckle. If you know there have been recent break ins, are you going to wait and see if the burglar is armed? On that note, are you going to shoot them in the shoulder,when they could potentially be armed?

[BlasphemousMusic]

I have lived in NYC for the majority of my life. I will say and have said Americans are very nice people. That doesn't change the fact the culture is still very "me centric" you can be great people but also selfish at the same time. I accept it as part of American culture.

No, you accept it as part of your generalization and stereotypes of your small world view. Get out more, there is a whole world awaiting for you to dislike!

[Themius]

I understand the point you're trying to make. You've literally reiterated it several times. The point I'm trying to make, and the point you keep ignoring is that this whole "Americans are very me centric thing" is not an American trait but, just a human trait... It's in our nature to survive and make life easier for ourselves... And I'm truly curious where you're from because no matter where you're from there's going to be differences of opinions and unless you came from a beehive and were all connected through hivemind there's no way that you came from a perfect place where everyone looked out for each other and didn't try to further their own goals before others.

If we look at healthcare we find MANY MANY Americans who will say they don't want universal health care because they don't want to pay for someone else's need, even if it means they get health care too. They're not sick so why should they pay taxes to give everyone health care? Is a question asked too often.

---------- Post added 2012-11-27 at 02:55 PM ----------

No, you accept it as part of your generalization and stereotypes of your small world view. Get out more, there is a whole world awaiting for you to dislike!

If I didn't see it so often, maybe I wouldn't report it then. Fact is this is my experience, or do I have no right to say my experience now?

[kjcasey]

They were home invaders!!!! Now should he have kept shooting? Thats up to the courts!

Where is the evidence to support that they broke into the house?

Look at the shooter's own statements.

He claims that the first 'intruder' came down into the basement, and was shot - tumbled down the stairs, and died. He then claims he dragged the body into a room, and left it there - then went back to sitting in his chair.

He then claims that he heard a second 'intruder' a few minutes later, who also came down into the basement - was also shot, and tumbled down the stairs - but that this person didn't die, and in fact, when he tried to shoot them a second time, they laughed when his gun jammed. So he shot them with his sidearm a few times. He then dragged the body into a room, and saw that she was still alive - so he put a gun to her chin and blew her brains out.

He then went about his normal routine.

This all happened around noon.

The following day, his neighbour - who reported not hearing any gunshots - said that he came over, and was acting suspiciously - asking about a lawyer.
His neighbour then contacted the police, who came and found the bodies.

Now, there's no 'conspiracy' here. There's a severe lack of sense with this man's story.

For one, what kind of home intruders would try to break in during the middle of the day? You might say "Anyone who breaks into anyone's house is an idiot", and there's some truth to that - but does it make sense?

Secondly, why did the shooter not report the break-in immediately? Why did he leave the dead bodies of two teenagers in his basement, while he went about his normal routine? A full day passed before the neighbour finally saw something was up, and contacted the authorities.

It seems rather convenient that both of these individuals were shot coming down a flight of stairs - so that they tumbled down the stairs. Especially the second individual who - again, stupid or not - came down into an area that was presumably occupied by an armed man. Falling down the stairs would readily explain any signs of a struggle or defensive wounds, and the time that had passed since the shooting would prevent an accurate estimated time of death from being determined.

There is also the fact that the shooter claimed that his house had been robbed 'eight times', while the Sheriff's records only indicate a single instance of this occurring - and that time only fairly recently. It seems unlikely that he'd report only the most recent break-in, but none of the others.

Moreover, the length of time that passed after the event leading up until his arrest creates a very large window for the shooter to create the appearance of a robbery. So while there may be signs of forced entry, there is no evidence to suggest that the 'intruders' did it. And in fact, forensic investigation may reveal that they did not.

My questions are valid; why are we taking this individual's assertion, that these were home invaders - home invaders that he brutally executed, and then hid for well over a day - as gospel truth?

[SirRobin]

And to follow up on the previous justifications...

Have they looked for any drugs or alcohol in the home invader's systems yet? Drug related crimes were spiking in rural areas back when I paid attention to it years ago.

[GreatOak]

America...just wow. What a fucked up place.

So Fucked up in fact, that you most likely enjoy the products of America/Americans in your daily life.

We just need to be nuked off the map. We don't deserve to live. Only when we see our children dying before us will we come to realize the mistakes we've made. There will be no hope in death for people as bad as us.

[Themius]

They were home invaders!!!! Now should he have kept shooting? Thats up to the courts!

Did you just not read this whole section.

There is also the fact that the shooter claimed that his house had been robbed 'eight times', while the Sheriff's records only indicate a single instance of this occurring - and that time only fairly recently. It seems unlikely that he'd report only the most recent break-in, but none of the others.

Moreover, the length of time that passed after the event leading up until his arrest creates a very large window for the shooter to create the appearance of a robbery. So while there may be signs of forced entry, there is no evidence to suggest that the 'intruders' did it. And in fact, forensic investigation may reveal that they did not.

My questions are valid; why are we taking this individual's assertion, that these were home invaders - home invaders that he brutally executed, and then hid for well over a day - as gospel truth?

[Eon]

If we look at healthcare we find MANY MANY Americans who will say they don't want universal health care because they don't want to pay for someone else's need, even if it means they get health care too. They're not sick so why should they pay taxes to give everyone health care? Is a question asked too often.

Problem with what you're telling me is a point I've made before... It's a melting pot here of idea, opinions, and ideals... You can't get everyone on board with an idea. I think it's absolutely ridiculous, the healthcare debate. I would love healthcare I pay taxes just like everyone else and I don't have a problem with it. But, again human nature makes us think otherwise. And the problem is that we put such emphasis on our voting party etc etc, that sometimes they let their opinions get swayed in favor of what their party wants and not what they really want.

Again, I'm not sitting here telling you America is the greatest place on Earth... I'm just sitting here telling you to stop making broad generalization because it makes you look foolish and makes it so that even when you bring up good points, like healthcare, no one wants to take you seriously anymore because of the stupidity that has come from you so far.

[Themius]

So Fucked up in fact, that you most likely enjoy the products of America/Americans in your daily life.

We just need to be nuked off the map. We don't deserve to live. Only when we see our children dying before us will we come to realize the mistakes we've made. There will be no hope in death for people as bad as us.

If Talibans made good cheese I could like it too... doesn't really change what they are though... not equating Americans to bad though, just saying liking products of something you don't like as a whole isn't unusual. Good products are well.. good products.

[kjcasey]

You said it all. I feel bad for the families loosing young kids but they and they alone made the decision to break into a mans house. I hope this teaches all young teens to think before they act.

Honestly, all the people trying to justify these kids, both here and on facebook, are pretty tiresome. These kids were criminals. You literally cannot say "they were good people!" if they were busy breaking the law when they were killed.

The fact that they were killed, sure, that's a tragedy, especially under the circumstances in which it happened. But to try to defend them on the basis of their reputation is just plain stupid.

When you encroach upon someone else's rights, expect yours to be violated as well.

[Deleted]

On that note, are you going to shoot them in the shoulder,when they could potentially be armed?

qft, even without mentioning that shooting a moving target aiming with that kind of precision in a heated situation is almost impossible.
and regarding the "warning shot", shooting upwards in a basement is an incredibly retarded move since rebounds are deadly.

[Kezotar]

Logan Ayres added: 'It's hard to see such nice people lose their lives to something that could of been so easily taken care of instead of murder. R.I.P. nick and halie you will be dearly missed.

A statement copied straight from the link.

She refers to them as "Nice people" - Are nice people breaking into peoples home? - "Lose their lives to something that could of been soe asily taken care of isntead murder?" - So the first thing I should do when I see two people breaking into my home is serve them some biscuits and tea? Then later call the police? I mean how in the hell would someone be able to think clear? I would've been shock'd to death if I knew two people I don't know just broke into my houes.

Stop making them as Role Models. This just sickens me. Summary of case - Stupid teenager broke into a house - Stupid defender took own actions - Short summary even shorter - Both parts were stupid.