Are Republicans Holding Tax Cuts Hostage?

[Rukentuts]

Let's see...

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is reached.

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is not reached.

Seems to me the tax issue is moot. The only question is if the GOP wants to take the rest of the nation down with the top 2%.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

and yet our deficits have been decreasing by billions each year since they spiked in 08...(which means the debt is slowing down)

And I argue that is an outright lie. It is not humanly possible for that to be the case unless the books are cooked. Virtually nothing of worth is getting cut. Branches are growing, they're not shrinking. Government payroll has expanded and continues to do so, more rapidly than before. Foreign aid is still issued out like M&Ms to suger-hyped children. We're expanding regulations by the thousands, which cannot possibly be enforced without hiring even more bureaucrats to oversee them which will lead to even further growth down the road. We've got divisions in this country expanding and multiplying on their own as damn near independent entities.

The only thing that might have reduced costs is cuts to the military and quite frankly, that was likely to be made into an anthill by the time our domestic growth hit its peak in the near future. So I'm sorry if your claim has literally no validity to it. You can't keep increasing size and scope and somehow lower costs. That is literally impossible and shows how deep our state-ran media propaganda has become. That you can claim the sun is the moon and the moon is the sun--all the while convincing people that it's truth.

[Riidii]

Let's see...

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is reached.

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is not reached.

Seems to me the tax issue is moot. The only question is if the GOP wants to take the rest of the nation down with the top 2%.

Well, obviously no.

The whole point is to prevent everyone from getting fucked and putting us into a deeper recession.

[Rukentuts]

Well, obviously no.

The whole point is to prevent everyone from getting fucked and putting us into a deeper recession.

That's what I meant by "taking the rest of the nation down". Arguing about taxes is a waste of time; it's going to happen one way or another.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Let's see...

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is reached.

Taxes will go up on the rich if a compromise is not reached.

Seems to me the tax issue is moot. The only question is if the GOP wants to take the rest of the nation down with the top 2%.

Exactly. I say let the bush tax cuts expire and propose a new middle class tax cut on January 1 or whenever thy convene after the new year.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Well, obviously no.

The whole point is to prevent everyone from getting fucked and putting us into a deeper recession.

Let us go further. Let us completely decline and splinter into warring factions if we must.

I'm personally tired of holding off the inevitable. We've got people here that thinks the growth of bureaucracies = profit. When in history has that ever been the case? WHEN!?

No, no. The ignorance and the brainwashing has gone too far. If we can't do a 180 now what's the point? Let it sink like a rock, force people to wise up in their desperation.

[Rukentuts]

Exactly. I say let the bush tax cuts expire and propose a new middle class tax cut on January 1 or whenever thy convene after the new year.

Pretty sure that's what Obama's plan is. Then see how bad the media makes the GOP look when they vote against said tax cuts.

[Riidii]

Pretty sure that's what Obama's plan is. Then see how bad the media makes the GOP look when they vote against said tax cuts.

GOP wouldn't vote against a tax cut.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Let us go further. Let us completely decline and splinter into warring factions if we must.

I'm personally tired of holding off the inevitable. We've got people here that thinks the growth of bureaucracies = profit. When in history has that ever been the case? WHEN!?

Through our entire history.

From the very beginning our bureaucracies were small and weak. As this country has grown in power,influence, and technology, so too have our bureaucracies.

I know I know...we've grown in spite of those bureaucracies...

The real goal is to create smart, efficient, and targeted bureaus (nasa?) that actually contribute to society. Of course there is some waste. No one here supports wasteful bureaucracies.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Through our entire history.

From the very beginning our bureaucracies were small and weak. As this country has grown in power,influence, and technology, so too have our bureaucracies.

I know I know...we've grown in spite of those bureaucracies...

The real goal is to create smart, efficient, and targeted bureaus (nasa?) that actually contribute to society. Of course there is some waste. No one here supports wasteful bureaucracies.

OOooooh my sweet and gentle Jesus.

Yep, we're screwed. I'm glad people can now openly encourage corruption and loss of control over their own government and give power to individuals they've never met nor elected. Fantastic stuff! The total ejection of true representation--real progress in the making. Even more reason for me to be excited for this country's inevitable downfall. The sooner it collapses, the sooner the kids get their sugary sweets and spaz out on a high, the sooner we can move in and reclaim, reforge.

Hopefully this time without the echoes of former empires haunting us.

[Spectral]

GOP wouldn't vote against a tax cut.

Assuming that's true, there's no reason for the Dems to not just let the old cuts expire and then propose the middle class cuts.

[Tierbook]

OOooooh my sweet and gentle Jesus.

Yep, we're screwed. I'm glad people can now openly encourage corruption and loss of control over their own government and give power to individuals they've never met nor elected. Fantastic stuff! The total ejection of true representation--real progress in the making. Even more reason for me to be excited for this country's inevitable downfall. The sooner it collapses, the sooner the kids get their sugary sweets and spaz out on a high, the sooner we can move in and reclaim, reforge.

Hopefully this time without the echoes of former empires haunting us.

of course we are screwed what made you think otherwise?

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

of course we are screwed what made you think otherwise?

Always a small ounce of hope there, Tier, always.

However, education and thoughtful thinking is being rapidly replaced by some serious propaganda. I honestly never thought I'd hear someone be happy about the idea of losing their rights to a bunch of thugs hidden in shadow. It's as if freedom and responsibility is a curse, rather than a blessing that not many throughout human history ever got to experience.

Do you think I should be more cynical?

[Rukentuts]

Assuming that's true, there's no reason for the Dems to not just let the old cuts expire and then propose the middle class cuts.

$500 says the House attaches cuts to the top 2% in it.

[Spectral]

$500 says the House attaches cuts to the top 2% in it.

I'm pretty sick of these gerrymandering fuckwits fucking with the basic process rather than being willing to actually vote on things like adults.

[Zdrasti]

You need to learn your politics, from both ends of the spectrum, before making ridiculous claims about what "the people" want.

Just for the record, I am a libertarian but could not stomach Mitt as president so I voted for Obama. Given the hard right turn the party has taken, despite being what many would consider a hard right winger, I aligned more closely with Obama on other important issues. I know my politics, there's no reason to be condescending just because I advocate something you disagree with. Back to the point, despite my personal preference for lower taxes and less government interference, I recognize that an election means something. Congress had years to come up with a solution and failed. It's time to do something and since the people voted for Obama, it's fair to give him some leeway.

---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 09:30 PM ----------

They have shown some willingness to cooperate if the Dems get serious about spending.

And what has been presented so far is pretty laughable.

And no, elected officials are beholden to their constituents, not the agenda of the President.

As long as they neglect the centerpiece of the campaign, the Republicans are not being serious. It really is as simple as that.

[Spectral]

Given the hard right turn the party has taken, despite being what many would consider a hard right winger, I aligned more closely with Obama on other important issues.

We're probably coming from somewhat different angled, but this is largely where I was at as well. I don't love Obama and I don't love the Democrat Party in general, but on every issue that I think Romney and Obama are actually different in a matter that concerns me, I prefer Obama.

[Riidii]

Just for the record, I am a libertarian but could not stomach Mitt as president so I voted for Obama. Given the hard right turn the party has taken, despite being what many would consider a hard right winger, I aligned more closely with Obama on other important issues. I know my politics, there's no reason to be condescending just because I advocate something you disagree with. Back to the point, despite my personal preference for lower taxes and less government interference, I recognize that an election means something. Congress had years to come up with a solution and failed. It's time to do something and since the people voted for Obama, it's fair to give him some leeway.

---------- Post added 2012-12-03 at 09:30 PM ----------



As long as they neglect the centerpiece of the campaign, the Republicans are not being serious. It really is as simple as that.

I think you missed the point.

It's not anyone's job to acknowledge any centerpieces of any campaigns.

[Rudol Von Stroheim]

Just for the record, I am a libertarian but could not stomach Mitt as president so I voted for Obama. Given the hard right turn the party has taken, despite being what many would consider a hard right winger, I aligned more closely with Obama on other important issues. I know my politics, there's no reason to be condescending just because I advocate something you disagree with. Back to the point, despite my personal preference for lower taxes and less government interference, I recognize that an election means something. Congress had years to come up with a solution and failed. It's time to do something and since the people voted for Obama, it's fair to give him some leeway.

No, I would've never voted for Obama. The only reason I didn't vote for Mitt is because he was a shoe-in concerning Texas. I wasn't excited about him, how could I be? What improvements he would bring would be small and near insignificant--but he would still be superior, unfortunately, to the alternative. The only issues I aligned with Obama on was the ones I already knew he was lying for to grab some easy votes. I am not gullible nor naive as a lot of my younger counterparts appear to be. They may have been fooled twice, I'll gladly take up mantle of having yet once been duped in a similar manner. You think he really cares? I'd say Romney had more character than him, which many chose to not believe because of the simple fact he has more money. Disappointing how quickly jealousy can turn people against one another, isn't it?

You chose the greater of two evils, if your aim was to slow the clock and give us a better chance down the road you certainly stumbled this time.

I am a libertarian and I will not cater nor "compromise" with evil. Even if Romney had been elected, I would've spent all of my time fighting anything of his I vehemently disagreed with. I don't work with or support a president just because he is that. He is not an emperor, he is just another man and another part of our system. Our goal, as a people ultimately, as an ideology is to save this country and in doing so perhaps the world as well. There is no room for what you speak of. I would hope as a man of liberty that you would kick Mr. Obama in the cahones, 24/7. Because he has done and will do nothing to aid us in our cause.

Thank you.

[Deadvolcanoes]

Always a small ounce of hope there, Tier, always.

However, education and thoughtful thinking is being rapidly replaced by some serious propaganda. I honestly never thought I'd hear someone be happy about the idea of losing their rights to a bunch of thugs hidden in shadow. It's as if freedom and responsibility is a curse, rather than a blessing that not many throughout human history ever got to experience.

Do you think I should be more cynical?

Do you by any chance have a subscription to GBTv?

The world is not ending. Our economy is not sinking. There are no thugs hidden in shadows. Regulations are not always bad. Government can be efficient. People still value freedom, probably now more than ever.

I feel like you need to hear this stuff.