Recent ''GC'' Discussion

[Fatmandoo]

I am surprised at all of the discussion about 1 shot. I don't think anyone has ever actually complained about that as it is pretty easy to dodge (assuming you are an actual PvP player and not a BG hero). The problem lies in the amount of instant burst that can come out of two classes together coupled with the overwhelming amount of CC in the game. It makes it unavoidable, which is what takes the skill out of PvP.

Mage/Lock, Mage/War, War/DK, War/Hunt, etc. Those combinations can CC someone long enough to get into position for both players to pop some insane burst onto them at the same time. The idea about warriors going with a HS/MS on one GCD and mages dropping FB/Lance at the same time is stupid. Or locks with chaos waves, or hunters with lynx rush/stampede/KC. (and if the DK can live long enough dumping into someone.)

The problem really is the stupid amount of CC in the game right now coupled with the high amount of players that can do 40% of your health in a GCD. Playing as a healer it pains you when you eat a no skill instant 4 sec CC that you can't get out of and that is plenty of time for someone on your team to get gibbed. That is the real problem with PvP right now, the amount of time it takes to kill someone is far too low. I liked it better when you had to skill together a good CC chain to get a kill. I am talking like a 20 sec chain. Now it is eat a blind (paladin), scatter, shockwave, deep, counterspell, bloodfear, intimidating shout, silence shot, intimidation, pom sheep, shadowfury(or death coil), lock pet stun, etc (all of those are instant no ramp up CC that are long enough to kill a player and that is just from half the classes) and a player dies.

Not to mention the games where you come out and they pop everything at the start and it is impossible to get away unless you have an immunity. When PvP gets back to the place where we could live for 10+ secs on our own with smart play then it will be mostly okay, but as it stands right now if you are caught without help for 2-3 GCDs you are dead.

I think you really hit the nail on the head with this comment. The burst coupled with the endless instant-CC trains leaves something to be desired. In addition to the above problem I think blizz has moved towards having really powerful insta-cast heals for healers which I think detracts from the gameplay as well. BC and vanilla had a much more engaging experience because classes had to hard cast their healing and damage spells - this gave players an opportunity to actually react IE LOSing, interrupting, popping survival timers etc. This also made fights more balanced around 1v1 because a smart DPS could single handedly lock down a healer from healing effectively. This forced healers to have to use inefficient fast heals and they actually had to try to fit some damage abilities into what they were attempting to do if they wanted to win the fight - they actually could go oom and die from one DPS. Now instead it seems that healers can't kill anyone but they can't really die either in many 1v1 situations.

I remember actually coordinating and watching the healer to string CCs and interrupts on him while we took his partner down. Matches didn't finish because of RNG or huge spikes of damage, it was because of teamwork and actually being able to react to what the enemy was doing. I don't think that 2 or 3 GCDs is sufficient time for the majority of people pvping to react, especially when failure results in your character's death.

I do believe there is merit in balancing the classes around 1v1 because no matter what class you bring to the table, it can hold its own vs any other class. I really do think that Vanilla and BC had a better balance around 1v1 and that's why people remember the early arena seasons being some of the best. Sure, they weren't perfect but I think it was much better than what we have now. I miss 2v2 not being a cheese-fest.

[Deleted]

If gladiator players who you always mention think tfb is op then how can you not?...300k in arena should not be possible. done
-We don't let players, even expert ones, balance the game for us. We appreciate their feedback, as we do all feedback


This is just showing how GC really is. I remember back in WOTLK where Blizzard had no clue how to balance classes and made a thread asking how to do it.
90% said they wanted their moonkins to have SURVIVALITY and Blizzard buffed Starfall instead. Nothing else.

Its redicilous. Do you think im stupid Ghostcrawler? Yes i might be stupid but im actually smarter than most people in different ways, like, remembering fails youve made.


I respect you, Greg Street, but how obvious does it have to be? 1-shotting is not OK no matter how RNG it is. EoD.
-I actually agree with that, but nobody is 1-shotting you with TfB (or CB). 5-stack TfB crit does what 250K? 2 or 3 shot maybe.

Lmao seriously?

[djtravitrav]

At what point should they just stop putting in all this wasted effort trying to balance the game around arena?

Why not just allow all abilities to have their normal CD's, all profession items like engineering be usable in arena. Let the players decide what is OP and what is not by altering their comps.

It just seems like so much micro-managing at this point, just let everything be viable and allow the players to decide how to play it.

[Gardrenn]

I don't think a lot of people in this thread understand some of what's going on with warriors and tfb. First of all a lot of people are talking about how its fine because it can take a bit of rng to get the 3 stack burst off, this doesn't matter as the rng only needs to happen once to end a game. Also many don't seem to understand that once the warrior does his 1 global macro how much damage can really come out of it. Often if a warrior gets stacks the better teams begin to try and cc him, so it he gets back onto target his auto attack has typically rolled over so what you get is this:

A casted attack on global cd
heroic strike
mastery proc
auto attack
any ticks from dots/bleeds on the target
possible undead racial proc

Now this is all in one global often times right as a charge goes off if a warrior trinkets or gets cleansed. This also isn't accounting for any damage coming from partners. Also as a few have stated it can't even be peeled a lot of the time. If a teammate of the warrior does an instant cc on the enemy healer (which there are plenty to choose from). And the rng from the instant damage isn't that hard to maximize as its an all in one macro and recklessness gives large crit chance. Any classes that use more active defensives many times can't even get a chance to use them since it's so sudden and they are stunned most of the time this goes off (which is one of the most frustrating parts).

Now I don't play a warrior at the moment however, I've seen these instant death macros happen often enough. And they do win plenty of games and shift the ladders significantly.

From my understanding the cooldowns they can roll at one time is extensive:
enrage
avatar
recklessness
one-use trinket
banner
proc trinket (if human)
fury (if orc)
haste (if troll)
plus any random proc cooldowns such as weapon enchant or tailoring weave

Even if you survive all this recovering may not be possible, they will still be doing damage and ccing your team.

tl;dr the damage with cooldown stacking is a terrible system that most people even the classes doing it do not usually enjoy, and it does need to be fixed. I may have forgotten something as I don't play the class as a main, but I think I've gotten the main idea.

[Flaks]

At what point should they just stop putting in all this wasted effort trying to balance the game around arena?

Why not just allow all abilities to have their normal CD's, all profession items like engineering be usable in arena. Let the players decide what is OP and what is not by altering their comps.

It just seems like so much micro-managing at this point, just let everything be viable and allow the players to decide how to play it.

It's the opposite end of the spectrum but I agree. They've gone out of their way to remove any chance that players can do things for themselves. They've went out of their way to remove choice in most aspects. The game isn't quite an RPG anymore and doing what you suggest might bring it back to it's roots.

Also I agree completely with the above poster. Everyone was saying that the biggest issue with warriors was and is CD stacking. They did NOTHING to address that whatsoever. Yes, TfB was also broken but it sure as hell wouldn't be OP if CD stacking was nerfed instead. Hell, it could stick with 5 stacks too because it wouldn't even crit upwards of 150k with just avatar popped.

[Kripthmaul]

theyre complaining about warriors who were allowed to get 5 stacks of tfb? and mages who use hard hitting abilities during deep freeze?

Sounds like people complaining about locks getting CW off while DS.....hum.

[Tyrean]

Seeing the discussion about the warlock nerf made me wonder why they don't just put in an artificial limit in pvp sorta like what resilience used to do? Remember way back when resilience reduced the crit chance against you as well, perhaps resilience can reduce damage and also cap damage at a percentage of your health? Most of us are running around with 65% resilience right now, so maybe single hits should be capped at 50% of your resilience. It would still be pretty possible to blow someone up if you are coordinating with your team but you would stop having people kill you by themselves because of one OP skill or CD stacking or whatever. You would still be vulnerable if you are out of position and low, just now you won't go from 80% to dead in a 4 sec instant CC.