Crying about PVP realms ''Blue'' response

[Deleted]

Blizz knows and they don't care. This is EXACTLY the type of threatening World PvP they have been trying to create for years.

Yeah I know this.

It's just come as a bit of a shock to a lot of people, seeing as it's been completely absent from the game for it's entire pre-CRZ history.

If you can't wrap your head around that I don't know what to say, tbh.

[Nerraw]

Newsflash: No one googled Wow server balance when he started playing Wow. Most people I know (since you state it as a fact without proof that "people picked their etc..) started to play on servers on wich they had family or friends already playing or have their friends and guildies on since now more than 5 years.

I'm guessing all those threads on MMO-Champion over the years of people asking which PVP servers had the best representation of *insert faction* were a figment of my imagination.

[Deleted]

Yes, exactly. That's why it's such a good change.

It also means if you swoop in to a zone for vengeance on gankers, you'll have a bunch of targets to take it out on. I'm sure you meant what you said as a negative, but I, and the others who enjoy PvP servers for what they are, don't see it that way. That is, in a nutshell, the difference between people who like PvP servers, and people who like PvE servers.

There's nothing wrong with either. Just stop trying to ruin one because you prefer the other, thanks.

I never said there was anything wrong with it - and I can see the appeal for many people.

I did say it's not what people were expecting to get. Why did I say that? because it's not what people would be expecting to get after 8 years of it not being there.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Yes, exactly. That's why it's such a good change.

It also means if you swoop in to a zone for vengeance on gankers, you'll have a bunch of targets to take it out on. I'm sure you meant what you said as a negative, but I, and the others who enjoy PvP servers for what they are, don't see it that way. That is, in a nutshell, the difference between people who like PvP servers, and people who like PvE servers.

There's nothing wrong with either. Just stop trying to ruin one because you prefer the other, thanks.

Yes. Well said. I wish everyone understood this. If you think PVP is horrible and unbalanced and you have VICTIM sewn into your gear, maybe it is time for you to reroll on a PvE server.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 10:35 AM ----------

I never said there was anything wrong with it - and I can see the appeal for many people.

Wow... you forget easily...

Oh and blizzard hasn't fixed pvp servers. it's detroyed them. It is providing world pvp, but not server based world pvp.

[Endus]

I did say it's not what people were expecting to get. Why did I say that? because it's not what people would be expecting to get after 8 years of it not being there.

The point is, what people "expected" is irrelevant. Is it against the PvP ruleset? No. Is it against the TOS? No. It's still within the range allowed for by both. The game is in constant flux, and constantly being patched and changed. Nobody should be assuming things will never change. They should be assuming things CAN change. The ruleset establishes limits, and the post-CRZ experience is still within those limits. And people playing on a PvP server agreed to anything up to those limits.

It also hasn't been 8 years. Vanilla on a busy PvP server was pretty chaotic and messy, too. It wasn't quite the same because the game's come a long way since then, but the degree of ganking I've experienced leveling several new toons has been about on par with my experiences in Vanilla. And "it's been broken too long; they can't fix it now" isn't really an argument against fixing something like this.

[Funky303]

[QUOTE=BeastmasterGuardian;19525759]Fixed. player-vs-player-server-policy

Please learn to read and understand what people write and stop quoting bullcrap. I don't want Blizzard to protect me anyhow, but until MoP I always had a chance play if i got ganked. I could change the leveling zone OR just port back to SW and then do some 2-3 dungeons with friends or LFG-Tool. With MoP i cannot do this anymore. Leveling with dungeons is just an option once when doing that dungeon the first time due to dungeon quests.

So the only thing I want is to have a CHANCE on spending the two hours I play a day (mostly after i brought my kids to bed) by having other options of leveling or continuing my gaming experience. And IMHO with CRZ and "no dungeon leveling" Blizzard kinda screwed the chances to do so really bad.

[Nerraw]

I don't want Candyland, i want a slightly CHANCE of succeeding or (when no succes possible) having the CHANCE to avoid beeing completely shut out of the game by beeing chainganked. As stated: on a server with a ration of 2:1 or even 3:1, life is okay. But not on an imbalanced 8:1 as it is on most old and big PVP servers i play novadays (Numbers taken from my own experience). A really easy way to check the A:H ratio is to fly to halfhill market and count the player ratio over a period of 30 mins. you'll get a close nuber to the real ratio. Or check the usual wowcensus or similar.

No one ever promised life, or levelling, on a PVP realm would be easy. And Blizzard is in no way obligated to provide such an experience for that realmtype. If you want to level in peace, PVE realms are for you. And they always have been.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 06:45 PM ----------

Because server based pvp is a lot different that being randomly ganked by people you'll likely never encounter again. The fun elements of server based pvp - faction rivarlry, revenge, guild based KoS lists, invading enemy cities, backing up your guildies/friends are all absent in a CRZ world. All that's left is the shit bit - being blown out of your shoes by a max level player with no chance of fighting back.

I don't see anything preventing you from bringing some epically-geared friends to work as bodyguards for you when you're levelling through a particularly contested zone.

And if you want honorable PVP which is somewhat balanced, go to a PVE realm, contact someone who can organize things for the other faction, and set up a huge fight that way.

And how does CRZ prevent you from hitting enemy cities? As far as I know, Stormwind and Orgrimmar haven't been added to the CRZ list yet. And those two are by far the most populated cities, meaning this is where you'll find most of the people you'd have on a kill list.

[Deleted]

The point is, what people "expected" is irrelevant. Is it against the PvP ruleset? No. Is it against the TOS? No. It's still within the range allowed for by both. The game is in constant flux, and constantly being patched and changed. Nobody should be assuming things will never change. They should be assuming things CAN change. The ruleset establishes limits, and the post-CRZ experience is still within those limits. And people playing on a PvP server agreed to anything up to those limits.

It also hasn't been 8 years. Vanilla on a busy PvP server was pretty chaotic and messy, too. It wasn't quite the same because the game's come a long way since then, but the degree of ganking I've experienced leveling several new toons has been about on par with my experiences in Vanilla. And "it's been broken too long; they can't fix it now" isn't really an argument against fixing something like this.

No, but it's a very good reason for people to be upset when it's all changed.

Nio clue why you can't see that, I am assuming lack of empathy or something at this point. Bloody obvious to me.

[Funky303]

I'm guessing all those threads on MMO-Champion over the years of people asking which PVP servers had the best representation of *insert faction* were a figment of my imagination.

All this threads.. Numbers please. Even IF there were 10k Threads (which there were NEVER EVER) it still is just 1% of the 10 Mio people playing WoW. And most servers with a high population have a big successful and known PVE Guild. On my server, the horde player base got really big when Affenjungs INC (the most successful german pve guild) got big and successful.

[Deathgoose]

Thing is they don't and never have...

From level 1-20 you are protected from pvp by alliance and horde zones, and that was when the cap was 60.

Also you have Dalaran and other "neutral" zones.

Tiller area has nasty guards that prevent you from ganking at that location.

So the "unrestricted ganking" argument fails being that ganking is actually restricted on pvp servers in certain locations.

Even so, the CRZ thing exasperated the problems. This is why a lot of people aren't liking it much right now.

No shit sanctuaries are safe havens, but I guess if it wasn't so obvious that it has to be spelled out:

They exist to facilitate unrestricted ganking outside of sanctuaries.

That is what a PvP server was designed for. The simple fact that you can't ever unflag to be safe unless you go hide in a sanctuary means ganking is to be expected. It is not just mutually agreed upon PvP, such as both sides showing up for the old Tarren Mill/Southshore fights, or queueing for a BG/Arena and knowing your opponent will be reasonably close to your level and gear, or whatever. It also means when you're out questing, doing dailies, farming, fighting mobs, whatever you normally do, and you get jumped when you are at a distinct disadvantage, and not ever having the luxury of /unflagging to escape the situation.

CRZ didn't create that environment, the fact that it is a PvP server did. All CRZ did is increase the potential for it to happen by increasing population density in each zone. Don't like that, don't be on a PvP server. I know I sure as hell wouldn't like that, so I stay away from them entirely.

Now, while people are always free to have the opinion that they don't like the fact that CRZ has brought an increase in world PvP to PvP servers (i.e. ganking), the reason people tell them "LULZ DONT PLAY ON A PVP SERVER!!! LULZ!!!" is because that argument has about as much weight as someone saying "I don't like CRZ because it increases competition for farming nodes/questing mobs." because then people just tell them "LULZ THEN DONT PLAY A MMO!!! LULZ!!!"

And don't get me wrong, I am not a fan of CRZ in any way, but that's because it's a buggy piece of shit system that does almost nothing whatsoever to improve anything for the PvE experience, but to criticize CRZ because you somehow think world PvP, in all of its ugly, cheap, unfair, bullshit forms, shouldn't happen so much on a PvP server is just a position that is hard to defend.

Now, all that said, Blizz should offer free realm transfers off of a PvP server to a PvE server of their choice to anyone that doesn't like it there.

[Endus]

Please learn to read and understand what people write and stop quoting bullcrap. I don't want Blizzard to protect me anyhow, but until MoP I always had a chance play if i got ganked. I could change the leveling zone OR just port back to SW and then do some 2-3 dungeons with friends or LFG-Tool. With MoP i cannot do this anymore. Leveling with dungeons is just an option once when doing that dungeon the first time due to dungeon quests.

You can definitely level easily with LFD. I did this with my monk a few weeks back to test the speed relative to questing, and went in assuming I'd be doing some questing/farming around the LFD queues. That didn't work out, since queues were under 5 minutes at all times. I got to level 68 or so before I started questing again, because it was just faster to keep queueing, even if I'd finished that dungeon's quests. I wouldn't repeat the experience, but mostly because it was relatively boring, but it was definitely fast, and safe. I wasn't questing at all because by the time I'd manage to make it to a quest hub, pick up the quests, and start to run them, they'd be green or gray due to the dungeons I was having queues pop for.

As for just changing the leveling zone; you aren't supposed to be able to move to an empty zone where there's no risk. That's the point. You should be constantly under threat if you're outside a sanctuary zone, in a PVP server.

So the only thing I want is to have a CHANCE on spending the two hours I play a day (mostly after i brought my kids to bed) by having other options of leveling or continuing my gaming experience. And IMHO with CRZ and "no dungeon leveling" Blizzard kinda screwed the chances to do so really bad.

This is why the PvP realm policy isn't bullshit. As it states, very clearly;

"If this does not sound like an appealing gameplay experience, it is strongly recommended that you select a Player versus Environment (PvE) realm. Although there will still be opportunities to occasionally test your PvP mettle on PvE servers, it is in a much more structured environment where you are empowered to choose when you wish to participate in PvP combat."

As I've said a few times already; everyone agrees that PvP realms aren't for everyone. If they're not for you, that's fine. Your response should be to play on the PvE realms, which offer the ruleset you prefer. You shouldn't be demanding that the PvP ruleset be changed to be more similar to the PvE ruleset, though. They have the two different server types to appeal to two different players. You shouldn't find both equally appealing, and if you don't like one server type, play on the other.

[Nerraw]

What CRZ does is gather together all the ganking assholes into one big lumo of assholery. Instead of 1 angwe type per server, there is now 1 angwe type per server linked by CRZ all together, in your levelling zone.

There are also more people levelling who can bring friends to protect them.

[Funky303]

No, but it's a very good reason for people to be upset when it's all changed.

Nio clue why you can't see that, I am assuming lack of empathy or something at this point. Bloody obvious to me.

QFT (10 letters)

[Deleted]

There are also more people levelling who can bring friends to protect them.

If they can get into the same zone.

And the gankers stick around and don't just fly into the next zone and phase away

etc

Old days, with server pvp? Make a note of name and guild, get them later. Now? it's just me and you against half of europe and I need a new pad cos this one has run out of space for guild names.

[Endus]

I don't see anything preventing you from bringing some epically-geared friends to work as bodyguards for you when you're levelling through a particularly contested zone.

That has, in fact, been the case most of the time while I was leveling. While I'd get hit by a Horde ganker, there'd be Alliance 90s in the area hunting them, too.

Nio clue why you can't see that, I am assuming lack of empathy or something at this point.

If you're going to keep resorting to personal attacks like that, I'm just not going to respond to you any longer. It's becoming clear that you're here to pick a fight, not to discuss things honestly.

[Funky303]

There are also more people levelling who can bring friends to protect them.

Well no they can't.

I just tried it just this minute in Honor Hold with my lvl 61 hunter. Thanks to CRZ there were more than 10 horde lvl 90 above and around Honor Hold. I asked my arena mate (the second one not beeing online yet, it's 18:51 over here) and even though he tried to protect me, the second he kille two of the horde gankers, he was killed by the other 90s just few seconds after that. So even IF i upgrade my security, the opposing faction can do that too.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

Please learn to read and understand what people write and stop quoting bullcrap. I don't want Blizzard to protect me anyhow, but until MoP I always had a chance play if i got ganked. I could change the leveling zone OR just port back to SW and then do some 2-3 dungeons with friends or LFG-Tool. With MoP i cannot do this anymore. Leveling with dungeons is just an option once when doing that dungeon the first time due to dungeon quests.

So the only thing I want is to have a CHANCE on spending the two hours I play a day (mostly after i brought my kids to bed) by having other options of leveling or continuing my gaming experience. And IMHO with CRZ and "no dungeon leveling" Blizzard kinda screwed the chances to do so really bad.

Ok. Here is a no Blizz bullcrap answer.

but until MoP I always had a chance play if i got ganked.

Nothing has changed. You can still switch to another toon or rezz and hearth behind a tree.

I could change the leveling zone OR just port back to SW and then do some 2-3 dungeons with friends or LFG-Tool. With MoP i cannot do this anymore. Leveling with dungeons is just an option once when doing that dungeon the first time due to dungeon quests.

People still grind dungeons for the lackluster XP, but it can be done. I have a friend with a 3 man premade and he has BARELY touched a questline since lvl 15. It is not IMPOSSIBLE, but it is the long way around. Maybe if you just suck it up and switch toons, eventually the ganker leaves and you can keep leveling. Or, do like I did which was level a toon on PvE and then xfer to PvP once I was level cap and had 450 gear.

IMHO Blizzard kinda screwed the chances to do so really bad.

So in your "opinion", things are now screwed up so bad that you just don't have any way out of this predicament. You could do any of the following:

A) Quest with friends and guildies. Does not eliminate, but can reduce the likelihood of being attacked

B) Roll a DK on a PvE realm (as an instant main toon) and start a new collections of toons on a safer server

C) Level up in Battlegrounds since you are then pitted in PvP against players of your own level

D) Grind Dungeons and BGs for XP and only quest in the early morning hours when it is safer

There are a host of options to choose from. The game has changed for the better and you either need to change with it, or unsub. World PvP and CRZ are here to stay.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 10:56 AM ----------

No, but it's a very good reason for people to be upset when it's all changed.

Nio clue why you can't see that, I am assuming lack of empathy or something at this point. Bloody obvious to me.

Of course we don't care. It is PvP. We play it because we love it and we will gank anyone who tries to take it away. PvP is alive for the first time in YEARS and all you whiners want to do it make Blizz babyproof it again.

[Arewn]

By Endus' logic, the fact that so many people made DK's and paladins to dominate everyone else in PvP and PvE is a "player-created problem". There was nothing for Blizzard to fix. After all, if you didn't want to be dominated, everyone had the choice of re-rolling as a DK or paladin. You didn't have to play that mage or shaman, no one was making you. You could have made a paladin or DK to be PvP/PvE champ. Blizzard was blameless and had no responsibility to do anything about it. Those weren't acceptable answers then either.

That's of course exactly what blizzard would say, not only does it allow them to shrug off the responsibility, but more importantly it means the affected players have to level a new character. Leveling a new character takes a looong time (read: in hours), Which in turn means they're more likely to be paying again next month since they're busy with something (that 'something' being content blizzard doesn't have to generate).
And we all know that profit is more important then the game's design integrity for Blizzard.

[BeastmasterGuardian]

That's of course exactly what blizzard would say, not only does it allow them to shrug off the responsibility, but more importantly it means the affected players have to level a new character. Leveling a new character takes a looong time (read: in hours), Which in turn means they're more likely to be paying again next month since they're busy with something (that 'something' being content blizzard doesn't have to generate).
And we all know that profit is more important then the game's design integrity for Blizzard.

PvP realms are working as designed. MMO is pay to play. Creating a bigger issue to be handled by players spending more time and money means they are doing their jobs by giving us something to do. The fact that you all have purses as ranged weapons on a PvP realm is not their fault. Man up or move out. Easy

[Deleted]

On the contrary, CRZ is a step to fixing the problem. It enables the players of multiple realms to play together. This includes both of the factions and the chances are that if the realm is extremely unbalanced CRZ will end up balancing it so.

A step in the air....

No crz in pandaria.

---------- Post added 2012-12-21 at 07:23 PM ----------

Unless a lot of people suddenly switch factions, there will always be an overweight of one faction over the other. Blizzard can't change that, only the players can.

So blizzard can add everything they want to promot wpvp, it will fail!! Unless blizzard promot faction change for one side only on unbalanced servers. They have to manage that. But they just want us to pay for it ... So It's never gonna happen. Except ganking, wpvp is screwed if you choose the wrong side.